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#12: Hurricanes @ Flyers - Monday, Nov. 1, 2010 - 7:00 PM (ET)

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Old
11-02-2010, 07:35 AM
  #651
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Wellwood looked pretty good.

And Giroux, wow.

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11-02-2010, 07:53 AM
  #652
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
7 goals in 12 games translates to 48 goals.

4 goals in 12 games translates to 27 goals.

Cut down on the sloppy defensive play, and there's a BIG difference in production. Similarly, he isn't getting 20 goals SH. However, 1 ES goal in 12 is on pace for 7... which may seem shockingly low, but remember... he only scored 8 ES goals last season (I would expect more this year).
I said this before and no more appropriate time than today to say it again....Giroux makes guys around him better, the fact that he is scoring more is something that I thought would take him a little longer to develop. That shot last night was pure scorers mentality, but his skating and passing are things that a defender has to be keenly aware of as well as his defensive progression. He is a total package. Both he and Leino are showing to be the most valuable forwards on this team IMO.

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11-02-2010, 08:33 AM
  #653
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So maybe it isn't time to be kneeling down in front of him to start sucking just yet.

Honestly, it was a pretty straightforward point.

But, then again, maybe it's cuz I'm a Giroux hater that compares him to a guy with a shot at 1,000 points for his career.
In the salary cap era you have tough choices to make, you have $6mill on the books left to spend and you can only give it to one player, Claude Giroux or Jeff Carter?

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11-02-2010, 09:30 AM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
In the salary cap era you have tough choices to make, you have $6mill on the books left to spend and you can only give it to one player, Claude Giroux or Jeff Carter?
Jeff Carter. Goals are harder to buy.

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11-02-2010, 09:35 AM
  #655
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Not really dude b/c you are the one who threw in the whole "separated by three months" outlier....which is fine b/c the fact that a three month hiatus hasn't inhibited his production says a lot in my book whether it's the beginning of the season or not..another one of your attempts to just downplay whatever Giroux does. But of course Carter gets a free ride when it's early in the season and he's not scoring at his 46 goal clip and has gotten points in 5 of 12 games.....all during the same crapola time of year...
That's not changing the parameters, man. That's *ing reality. The playoffs ended in early June.... the regular season begins in *ing October.

The beginning of the season is ALWAYS a terrible time to draw conclusions about anything. Teams, players, you name it. If you're a skilled guy with dangle, there is a lot more space out there now than there will be later on in the year. There are also a slew of guys that have been great early in the year consistently in their careers, and faded later on purely because they could take advantage of the crap defensive hockey that gets played this time of year.

Just because you don't want to contextualize YOUR parameters, doesn't mean I changed 'em.

Carter is on pace right now for 34-41-75... I'm not even sure why you bring him up as far as getting a "free ride." That point doesn't even begin to make sense.

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11-02-2010, 09:53 AM
  #656
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1. Bob is the starter
2. Z with 2 very good games in a row
3. Fatty's little brother can skate and did not look out of place
4. Another very good game by Carter
5. Roo needs to be signed soon, 3 yr deal or long term up to 9 yrs
6. Shelley had a pretty good game, few hits, good forecheck, and scoring chances

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11-02-2010, 10:00 AM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
That's not changing the parameters, man. That's *ing reality. The playoffs ended in early June.... the regular season begins in *ing October.

The beginning of the season is ALWAYS a terrible time to draw conclusions about anything. Teams, players, you name it. If you're a skilled guy with dangle, there is a lot more space out there now than there will be later on in the year. There are also a slew of guys that have been great early in the year consistently in their careers, and faded later on purely because they could take advantage of the crap defensive hockey that gets played this time of year.

Just because you don't want to contextualize YOUR parameters, doesn't mean I changed 'em.

Carter is on pace right now for 34-41-75... I'm not even sure why you bring him up as far as getting a "free ride." That point doesn't even begin to make sense.
Did Giroux sleep with your GF?

The reality is that Giroux has broken out since April....you keep wanting to DECONTEXTUALIZE this fact by bringing in these convenient silly outliers like they will figure him out, they are dumbasses, it's the beginning of the season, a different season etc etc. You want to downplay Giroux that is fine..I'm bringing in Carter to show what a double standard you have with him constantly. If he's supposed to be this better 40 goal talent than Giroux shouldn't he be scoring at that clip and not 30 goals in the beginning of the year when the play is weak? He's scored goals in 3 of 12 games thus far. Meanwhile Giroux has scored points consistently since April whether you want to downplay it and twist it into irrelevancy. But go ahead with your circular reasoning to make your arguments fit your "I'm always right" reality....

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11-02-2010, 10:05 AM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Hextall89 View Post
Scotty blew a tire

Does anyone have the clip of Hartnell falling for no reason in the defensive zone with the puck?? That was so bad!!! I want to make that my avatar!!

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11-02-2010, 10:06 AM
  #659
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Did Giroux sleep with your GF?

The reality is that Giroux has broken out since April....you keep wanting to DECONTEXTUALIZE this fact by bringing in these convenient outliers like they will figure him out, they are dumbasses, it's the beginning of the season etc etc. You want to downplay Giroux that is fine..I'm bringing in Carter to show what a double standard you have with him constantly. If he's supposed to be this better 40 goal talent than Giroux shouldn't he be scoring at that clip and not 30 goals in the beginning of the year when the play is weak? He's scored goals in 3 of 12 games thus far. Meanwhile Giroux has scored points consistently since April whether you want to downplay it and twist it into irrelevancy. But go ahead with your circular reasoning to make your arguments fit you "I'm always right" reality....
Say it with me: It's 12 games.

And please explain the double standard with regard to Carter. Put it into words. Don't throw it out there as a straw man argument.

Jeff Carter is on pace for 75 pts. He's off to a perfectly good start, and on 34 goal pace. If he had 1 more goal, he'd be on 40 goal pace.

Giroux's production isn't irrelevant, he's playing well. I believe he will continue to play well... that doesn't mean his current clip of production will continue. On the goal scoring front especially, there's pretty much no chance he can maintain it without significantly upping the number of shot attempts he has. And even then, he doesn't have a shot that is going to flat beat goalies from range, so that won't really work for him.

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11-02-2010, 10:07 AM
  #660
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
Does anyone have the clip of Hartnell falling for no reason in the defensive zone with the puck?? That was so bad!!! I want to make that my avatar!!
The ice was definitely rough last night... someone else blew a tire on the forecheck in the offensive zone later on.

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11-02-2010, 10:12 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The ice was definitely rough last night... someone else blew a tire on the forecheck in the offensive zone later on.

I think this was more of a case of "The Hartnell's Balance" was definitely rough last night!! We will give him a pass though because he scored two goals...

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11-02-2010, 10:13 AM
  #662
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Jeff Carter. Goals are harder to buy.
Harder than playoff performers?

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11-02-2010, 10:13 AM
  #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Say it with me: It's 12 games.

And please explain the double standard with regard to Carter. Put it into words. Don't throw it out there as a straw man argument.

Jeff Carter is on pace for 75 pts. He's off to a perfectly good start, and on 34 goal pace. If he had 1 more goal, he'd be on 40 goal pace.

Giroux's production isn't irrelevant, he's playing well. I believe he will continue to play well... that doesn't mean his current clip of production will continue. On the goal scoring front especially, there's pretty much no chance he can maintain it without significantly upping the number of shot attempts he has. And even then, he doesn't have a shot that is going to flat beat goalies from range, so that won't really work for him.
Say it to yourself since you are your own sanctimonious echo chamber. I would have more respect for your opinions if you acknowledged other people's opinions but all you ever do is rip into other people's perspectives but when posters do it to you it's blasphemy....

Anyway, you believe he "pretty much" has no chance to maintain a 40 goal pace...a bunch of us so called "idiots" believe he can do just that provided he stays healthy.

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11-02-2010, 10:23 AM
  #664
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Harder than playoff performers?
Everyone -- and I mean pretty much EVERYONE -- performs to their regular season mean over the course of their career in the playoffs. There isn't really anything called a "playoff performer," they are dudes playing hockey that play a lot of other hockey games that we can use as a base for what to expect.

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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Say it to yourself since you are your own sanctimonious echo chamber. I would have more respect for your opinions if you acknowledged other people's opinions but all you ever do is rip into other people's perspectives but when posters do it to you it's blasphemy....
Who isn't acknowledging your opinion? I've been discussing it with you since last night. I'd have a lot more respect for your opinion if you didn't throw out platitudes liked "double standard" which has no basis in reality for what I am saying. There is no double standard.

You want to rip on my opinion, go for it. But when I ask you to provide evidence of what you're ripping own what you said and back it up.

You accuse Carter of getting a free ride? What free ride? And even if he was getting a free ride, there's a big *ing problem in that he's producing thus far.

You accuse me of "changing the parameters," when I use your parameters for another player to show the silliness of making predictions based on those parameters.

I'm accused of disparaging Giroux consistently on these boards... all while comparing him consistently to a guy with a very real shot at a 1,000 point career.

Quote:
Anyway, you believe he "pretty much" has no chance to maintain a 40 goal pace...a bunch of us so called "idiots" believe he can do just that provided he stays healthy.
I never called anyone an "idiot," so if that's what has your feathers ruffled... then your barking up the wrong tree.

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11-02-2010, 10:48 AM
  #665
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Originally Posted by JonnyGaloshes View Post
Harder than playoff performers?
Id be willing to bet you would be crying after 2 hours of walking let alone skating with 2 broken feet.

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11-02-2010, 11:03 AM
  #666
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I really cannot believe that people actually watch Giroux play and Carter play and can honestly admit they would rather see Carter in O&B over Giroux, blows my mind but to each their own.

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11-02-2010, 11:06 AM
  #667
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Id be willing to bet you would be crying after 2 hours of walking let alone skating with 2 broken feet.
I meant this more as a compliment to Giroux than as an insult to Carter. I don't blame him for his play last spring (well, maybe a little for that empty net he missed)

And Jester - I don't want to argue with you, but come on. You know there are players who raise their game in the playoffs.

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11-02-2010, 11:12 AM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
I really cannot believe that people actually watch Giroux play and Carter play and can honestly admit they would rather see Carter in O&B over Giroux, blows my mind but to each their own.
Hmmm.... after reading your posts regarding Claude, it seems like you suffer from the same bias towards Giroux that you accuse the 'Cartsiephans' of having towards Jeff.

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11-02-2010, 11:40 AM
  #669
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan
I really cannot believe that people actually watch Giroux play and Carter play and can honestly admit they would rather see Carter in O&B over Giroux, blows my mind but to each their own.
If only, if only, we didn't have to make such a gut-wrenching decision and have both fine players on the same roster, if only for this year!!!!

Oh, wait ...

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11-02-2010, 11:41 AM
  #670
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So am I the only one who thinks it's awesome that both Roo and Carter are playing well and that we're on a 4 game winning streak?

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11-02-2010, 11:46 AM
  #671
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So am I the only one who thinks it's awesome that both Roo and Carter are playing well and that we're on a 4 game winning streak?
here here!

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11-02-2010, 11:59 AM
  #672
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Originally Posted by Woof
So am I the only one who thinks it's awesome that both Roo and Carter are playing well and that we're on a 4 game winning streak?
Absolutely agree. What's great, too, is that the team put the numerous distractions and line-up changes behind them and came out with a win. There's been no slack-off since beating the Penguins. And Bob – I'll have my crow medium-rare, please – is rounding into a dependable goaltender. His play will give Holmgren a difficult decision when Leighton can stand upright on skates.

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11-02-2010, 12:08 PM
  #673
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I think this was more of a case of "The Hartnell's Balance" was definitely rough last night!! We will give him a pass though because he scored two goals...
A few players fell for no apparent reason last night. I was at the game and the blue line near the Flyers' net for the 1st & 3rd periods caused problems for Hartnell, Giroux, Gleason, and one other Canes d-man (I think it was Corvo). The ice was also crappy in the corner to the left of the Canes' net for the 1st & 3rd periods, which was the corner where I sat (section 204A). I noted to my wife that the Zamboni missed a spot just outside the circle in that corner. Soon, the Zamboni came back and got half of the crescent shape that was missed but never finished the other half. I couldn't tell what happened in the Flyers' end/blue line area.

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11-02-2010, 12:11 PM
  #674
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So am I the only one who thinks it's awesome that both Roo and Carter are playing well and that we're on a 4 game winning streak?
No, you're not the only one. Folks who want to constantly complain, bicker, and argue could find reason to do so on any forum, no matter the topic.

Things are looking good. If the team continues its strong play and minimizes their mistakes, they could pull away from the pack in Atlantic. I'd love to see that.

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11-02-2010, 12:49 PM
  #675
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Everyone -- and I mean pretty much EVERYONE -- performs to their regular season mean over the course of their career in the playoffs. There isn't really anything called a "playoff performer," they are dudes playing hockey that play a lot of other hockey games that we can use as a base for what to expect.
This statement is very stupid.

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