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Old
11-02-2010, 12:29 PM
  #26
phillyflu
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Originally Posted by Quacker912 View Post
I'm surprised people are disappointed with JVR, he's looked good in almost all of the games so far, he just hasn't been able to pick up points.
He needs to do more than look good, he needs to be productive. Looking good is fine for 2nd rounder or undrafted college kid, it's not enough for the 2nd overall pick.

Eric Staal, Evgeni Malkin, Bobby Ryan, Jordan Staal, Drew Doughty, all 2nd overall picks. That's the level of expectation he has to live up to, fair or not.

That being said, I'm willing to give him at least a few more years to see if he develops or not.

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Old
11-02-2010, 12:41 PM
  #27
sa cyred
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Impressed: Giroux, Meszaros, Timonen, Leino, Bobrovsky
Dissappointed: JVR, Zherdev, Carcillo

Im not going to say anything about Carcillo cause everyone knows my views on him. JVR is killing me lately. He keeps trying to use his size, but gets pushed off easily. He has had some nice passes, but has to do more then a few nice passes. Zherdev just floats around.

For the impressive, I liked how Leino has played. Many here thought he was just going to be a playoff stud, but most of the games so far, he has looked like how he played in playoffs. Controls the puck very well and can make some nice passes.

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11-02-2010, 01:48 PM
  #28
Snotbubbles
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Originally Posted by PhillyFlying View Post
last i checked, flyers are in first place and look mighty good, and JVR is a big piece of that. he's solid on the forecheck and he wins most of his battles along the boards. so he's not putting up the points...give it time, it'll come.

you should redirect your frustration at zherdev, who was brought here specifically to fill the void left by gagne, aka point production.
Gagne this year has 0 goals and 0 assists and is a -8.

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11-02-2010, 01:56 PM
  #29
Snotbubbles
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Originally Posted by phillyflu View Post
He needs to do more than look good, he needs to be productive. Looking good is fine for 2nd rounder or undrafted college kid, it's not enough for the 2nd overall pick.

Eric Staal, Evgeni Malkin, Bobby Ryan, Jordan Staal, Drew Doughty, all 2nd overall picks. That's the level of expectation he has to live up to, fair or not.

That being said, I'm willing to give him at least a few more years to see if he develops or not.
E. Staal age 20: 11 goals, 20 assists, -6
Malkin age 20: Not in NHL
Ryan age 20: Not in NHL
J. Staal age 20: 22 goals, 27 assists, +5

JvR age 20: 15 goals, 20 assists, -1

Looks to me like he's right on pace with these other guys.

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11-02-2010, 02:15 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
E. Staal age 20: 11 goals, 20 assists, -6
Malkin age 20: Not in NHL
Ryan age 20: Not in NHL
J. Staal age 20: 22 goals, 27 assists, +5

JvR age 20: 15 goals, 20 assists, -1

Looks to me like he's right on pace with these other guys.
Exactly, plus he's a so-called power forward who typically take longer to develop as they have to bulk up at each level.

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Old
11-02-2010, 02:36 PM
  #31
G28
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2007 NHL draft was a weak one...Kane is the only superstar that came out of that Draft.
honorable mention - Dave Perron, Wayne Simmonds, PK Subban

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Old
11-02-2010, 02:44 PM
  #32
sa cyred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
E. Staal age 20: 11 goals, 20 assists, -6
Malkin age 20: Not in NHL
Ryan age 20: Not in NHL
J. Staal age 20: 22 goals, 27 assists, +5

JvR age 20: 15 goals, 20 assists, -1

Looks to me like he's right on pace with these other guys.
Huh?

Malkin: 20 years old: 85 points in NHL
21 years old: 103 points in NHL

E. Staal: 20-21 years old: 100 points in NHL

Ryan: 21-22 years old, turning 22: 57 points in 64 games

Jordan Staal: 20-21 years old: 48 points (my bad, I looked at PIM last time)

Right on track? JVR is in the 21-22 category. He turns 22 mid season.


Last edited by sa cyred: 11-02-2010 at 03:29 PM.
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Old
11-02-2010, 03:22 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Huh?

Malkin: 20 years old: 85 points in NHL
21 years old: 103 points in NHL

E. Staal: 20-21 years old: 100 points in NHL

Ryan: 21-22 years old, turning 22: 57 points in 64 games

Jordan Staal: 20-21 years old: 57 points

Right on track? JVR is in the 21-22 category. He turns 22 mid season.
All of those players got steady PP time as well.

If JVR pushes 35-45 without PP time, I consider him right on target with those.

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Old
11-02-2010, 03:25 PM
  #34
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Im going to say when i was watching JVR in the World Junior Tournament, i wasn't impressed at all. He has looked to be skating harder this year, but something is still missing. I have a feeling he would be better off on another team. It was an extremly weak draft of course because thats the way our luck runs.

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Old
11-02-2010, 03:26 PM
  #35
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I've been very impressed with Nodl so far. He's much further along than I had expected. He understands his role completely and adds consider depth to the team. There are times this season when he reminds me of Gagne in his rookie year.

Bob is stellar so far. Its early and he'll struggle sometime soon but God Almighty he puts you at ease back there.

Too early to **** on anyone just yet, Jvr and Carts obviously are dangerously close to those s**t tickets though

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Old
11-02-2010, 03:30 PM
  #36
sa cyred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
All of those players got steady PP time as well.

If JVR pushes 35-45 without PP time, I consider him right on target with those.
He hasnt gotten powerplay time because he hasnt deserved it being honest. He will get thrown on there during injuries throughout the season, but I dont see him being a pp stud.

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Old
11-02-2010, 03:37 PM
  #37
4thline4life
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Originally Posted by MrKurri'soupkitchen View Post
I've been very impressed with Nodl so far. He's much further along than I had expected. He understands his role completely and adds consider depth to the team. There are times this season when he reminds me of Gagne in his rookie year.

Bob is stellar so far. Its early and he'll struggle sometime soon but God Almighty he puts you at ease back there.

Too early to **** on anyone just yet, Jvr and Carts obviously are dangerously close to those s**t tickets though
why Carts? he's on pace for a 90 point season. he hasn't looked bad at all this season. he scores in bunches but that's been his career so far.

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Old
11-02-2010, 03:44 PM
  #38
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I'm not disappointed in anyone because Zherdev and Shelley are pretty much doing as expected. I've never seen anyone look so out of their element like Zherdev and Shelley is so slow, he can't catch up.

I'm happy with almost everyone, starting with Bob, Roo, Briere (pre-bonehead move), Carter, etc. There are also a lot of guys like Powe and Nodl who aren't putting up huge numbers but are doing well. Pronger seems to be up to speed now and Kimmo has been as solid as always and has picked up a few points. Richards and Carter are better apart, just as we figured, but I wish Richards would stop with the slap pass and dangle. Just play hard nosed hockey and the goals will come.

I'm loving Leino and am pleased that the old Hartnell from 2 years ago has returned. It doesn't matter if Briere or Carter are centring this line, they both work out well.

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Old
11-02-2010, 03:45 PM
  #39
Hockeypete49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersjamminontheone View Post
best: giroux, briere, and bob.
hon m: Hartnell, leino, mez, sean "don't call me john LeClair" O'Donnell.
worst: jvr,carter.
CARTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:shake head

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Old
11-02-2010, 03:47 PM
  #40
Snotbubbles
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
All of those players got steady PP time as well.

If JVR pushes 35-45 without PP time, I consider him right on target with those.
Exactly. The difference between JvR and Staal, Malkin, Ryan is PP opportunity and ice time.

Staal in the year he scored 100 pts, got 40 on the PP and had 19:38 of ice time.
Malkin in the year he scored 85 pts, got 40 on the PP and had 19:09 of ice time.
Ryan in the year he scored 57 had 23 on the PP and had 15:26 of ice time.

JvR last year had 7 PP pts and had 12:57 of ice time.

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Old
11-02-2010, 03:49 PM
  #41
Hockeypete49
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Impressed: G and Bob

Disappointment has to be JVR

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11-02-2010, 03:52 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
I'm not disappointed in anyone because Zherdev and Shelley are pretty much doing as expected. I've never seen anyone look so out of their element like Zherdev and Shelley is so slow, he can't catch up.

I'm happy with almost everyone, starting with Bob, Roo, Briere (pre-bonehead move), Carter, etc. There are also a lot of guys like Powe and Nodl who aren't putting up huge numbers but are doing well. Pronger seems to be up to speed now and Kimmo has been as solid as always and has picked up a few points. Richards and Carter are better apart, just as we figured, but I wish Richards would stop with the slap pass and dangle. Just play hard nosed hockey and the goals will come.

I'm loving Leino and am pleased that the old Hartnell from 2 years ago has returned. It doesn't matter if Briere or Carter are centring this line, they both work out well.
Yeah why can't we just be happy with almost anybody?

I don't quite get the JVR stuff.

He played on the disastrous JVR-Giroux-Zherdev line and has looked quite a bit better since moving to Richards. It's also just going to take him a while, as others have mentioned, his play with the puck is generally very good, he just needs to work on getting into high-scoring areas more consistently.

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Old
11-02-2010, 03:56 PM
  #43
Jester
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Originally Posted by MrKurri'soupkitchen View Post
I've been very impressed with Nodl so far. He's much further along than I had expected. He understands his role completely and adds consider depth to the team. There are times this season when he reminds me of Gagne in his rookie year.

Bob is stellar so far. Its early and he'll struggle sometime soon but God Almighty he puts you at ease back there.

Too early to **** on anyone just yet, Jvr and Carts obviously are dangerously close to those s**t tickets though
I'm not sure what games you're watching to be honest.

Carter struggled on Richards' wing, but has played quite well away from there... and has been our most productive ES player.

And the Nodl to Gagne comparison is a bit... odd.

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Old
11-02-2010, 04:00 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm not sure what games you're watching to be honest.

Carter struggled on Richards' wing, but has played quite well away from there... and has been our most productive ES player.

And the Nodl to Gagne comparison is a bit... odd.
Jeff Carter kinda reminds me of Randy Moss in the sense that he is so big and fluid that sometimes it looks like he isn't trying. But he has looked very good when not with richards

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11-02-2010, 04:01 PM
  #45
CS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
Impressed: G and Bob

Disappointment has to be JVR
It's only JVR because there's really nothing else to be disappointed in.

Shelley is meh. Zherdev was either do or don't, no in between.

JVR is somebody who most Flyers' fans were hoping would jump out of the gate.

You can't be disappointed without hope.

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11-02-2010, 04:01 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
Jeff Carter kinda reminds me of Randy Moss in the sense that he is so big and fluid that sometimes it looks like he isn't trying. But he has looked very good when not with richards
Well, Randy Moss actually doesn't try.

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Old
11-02-2010, 04:04 PM
  #47
DrHamburg
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Well, Randy Moss actually doesn't try.
Lol that is true, but even when he is trying he doesn't look like it.

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Old
11-02-2010, 04:06 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Well, Randy Moss actually doesn't try.
Randy Moss reminds me of a more successful Nik Zherdev; at least more successful than Zherdev when he was tearing apart the NFL with Daunte and Randall.

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Old
11-02-2010, 04:11 PM
  #49
Jester
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
Jeff Carter kinda reminds me of Randy Moss in the sense that he is so big and fluid that sometimes it looks like he isn't trying. But he has looked very good when not with richards
Yeah, I mean it's just kind of fascinating... if Carter wasn't such a good skater, it would actually look like he's trying harder.

I mean, there's a reason Richards looks like he's trying hard...

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Old
11-02-2010, 04:29 PM
  #50
PhillyFlying
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Gagne this year has 0 goals and 0 assists and is a -8.
no kidding, i wasn't referencing gagne's play in tampa. zherdev was brought in to put up numbers and so far the experiment is producing mixed results. i'm new to these boards but i'll have to make a guess that everyone on here realized gags was getting traded once homer signed zherdev. gags being 0-0-0 and injured doesn't justify zherdev's slow start.

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