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Eric Wellwood called up; expected to replace Nodl tonight (November 1)

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Old
11-02-2010, 12:11 PM
  #76
CS
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
Exactly my point of view. Which is why I'm confused that Shaefer face-palmed my post.

"RIGHT NOW."
Misunderstood. I thought you meant right now as if he was a better option than Nodl "right now" so keep him up.

Sorry.

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11-02-2010, 12:16 PM
  #77
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I thought Wellwood did very well for his first game. He's a bit too easy to push around perhaps. He's got the speed and the hockey sense to keep up with the big guys though. I don't think he'll ever be a strong point producer, but if we were to create a more traditional 3rd line sometime, he'd look good on that wing.

For both Nödl and Wellwood it's too early to say for sure though. I'm not convinced that Nödl is a reliable player on the NHL level quite yet, and Wellwood has only played one game.

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11-02-2010, 12:16 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Misunderstood. I thought you meant right now as if he was a better option than Nodl "right now" so keep him up.

Sorry.
Nodl's playing great, better so far than last year, but Wellwood played way above what I expected out of a player in his first career NHL game, and I figure until that trend starts to lower keep him in until Briere's suspension is up. No way should Wellwood see a lot of NHL games this year, he needs time in the AHL to develop.

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11-02-2010, 12:16 PM
  #79
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The Hitchcock Effect

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sharp was given a chance, he was a good role player when he was here. He just wasn't better than the guys ahead of him on the depth chart at the time. Way it goes.
Maybe so but the Hitchcock effect was also a factor and cannot be discounted. Here is a decent write up on Hitchcock's obtuseness in the new NHL..hence why he's still unemployed.

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If the words of Nikita Filatov are not enough to describe how much of an effect Ken Hitchcock has on his young players, then you will definitely want to read this.

The young Russian said in a recent interview, when questioned on his decision to return to the NHL, “I highly doubt it. But [moving] Ken Hitchcock can really help it.”

There is a pattern and we will show you it.

On January 8, 1996, the Dallas Stars appointed Hitchcock’ as their head coach. This team displayed a nice mix of veterans and youth with promising players like Mike Modano, Jere Lehtinen, Jamie Langenbrunner, Richard Matvichuck (acquired via trade), Trent Klatt and Darryl Sydor. This same team found chemistry together eventually leading them to a Stanley Cup Championship just three short years later.

However, in his first season, the kids barely saw the ice. Outside of Modano and Matvichuck, forwards Lehtinen, Langenbrunner and Klatt played a defensive checking role. Lehtinen was not drafted to be a defensive type player. Yes, he developed into a very good two-way player but a lot of his offensive potential lied to rot with Hitchcock not using him in a more offensive role or in a more offensive system.

Let’s face it though, that was the “old NHL.” We play a “new NHL” now. In the old NHL Hitchcock won a cup. In the new NHL he has two winning seasons.

Even when Hitchcock was hired by the Philadelphia Flyers, his system did not help the youngsters. Players like Patrick Sharp and Justin Williams needed to develop in a different system, not one defensively demanding and usually requiring a heavily veteran team. The style simply strayed too far off what they were accustomed to in their development.

Williams and Sharp were shipped out of Philly with both scoring 30 goals with different teams. Bobby Clarke thought less of the two moving them because they were not able to fit in Philadelphia. They may have been rushed but the the Hitchcock system crippled their development.

One name that is still around and that can be looked at in comparison to Modanos early years in Dallas, Simon Gagne. Gagne saw a rookie season that had two more seasons of promise to follow.

The Hitchcock system depleted Gagne’s scoring and upside. In 2002-03, although an injury limited Gagne to 46 games, he scored only nine goals. The following year, in his closest to a full season to date, he did score 24 goals but many felt it was due to the Hitchcock style and with a more offensive minded coach he would of surpassed 30 goals.

http://nhlhotstove.com/the-ken-hitchcock-effect/

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11-02-2010, 12:44 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
Maybe so but the Hitchcock effect was also a factor and cannot be discounted. Here is a decent write up on Hitchcock's obtuseness in the new NHL..hence why he's still unemployed.
I would wager Hitch's unemployment has more to do with him waiting for the right job, and the right team wanting him than anything else... he'll be employed soon enough.

Sharp and Hitch have also remained close. According to Sharp himself they continue to speak regularly, and Sharp credits Hitch a lot with where he's at in his career the last time I read about it.

That article is just full of piling on fail.

Justin Williams was dealt because this team was DEVASTATED on the blue line and he was the price for Markov, who was a beast for a team that almost went to (and probably would have won) the SCFs. Sharp ASKED to leave, and they accommodated him.

And that article needs to think a whole hell of a lot harder about Gagne, and why his production went down. And, before moving forward, Gagne has long been my favorite Flyer and he's the only Flyer's jersey I own (or will own in the foreseeable future).

Gagne's production dropped because he shot 7.8 *ing percent in 2002-3. That's not any coach's fault. In '03-'04 Gagne played on the most important line on the team (with Keith Primeau), which was a checking line, because there was no way you were going to ask Tony Amonte and LeClair to do that job at that point in their careers (not because they were veterans, but because they would have failed to do it effectively).

In '05-'06, under Hitchcock and without the aforementioned guys on the team, Gagne was put on the first line and popped 47 goals... the best season of his career. Moreover, until injuries devastated that team, we were the best team in the NHL. So, I think we should slow down on the "Hitch's obtuseness to the new NHL train."

Williams and Sharp were on a veteran laden team that was trying to win the Cup... not be a developmental system. That's the price you pay.

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11-02-2010, 01:10 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I would wager Hitch's unemployment has more to do with him waiting for the right job, and the right team wanting him than anything else... he'll be employed soon enough.

Sharp and Hitch have also remained close. According to Sharp himself they continue to speak regularly, and Sharp credits Hitch a lot with where he's at in his career the last time I read about it.

That article is just full of piling on fail.

Justin Williams was dealt because this team was DEVASTATED on the blue line and he was the price for Markov, who was a beast for a team that almost went to (and probably would have won) the SCFs. Sharp ASKED to leave, and they accommodated him.

And that article needs to think a whole hell of a lot harder about Gagne, and why his production went down. And, before moving forward, Gagne has long been my favorite Flyer and he's the only Flyer's jersey I own (or will own in the foreseeable future).

Gagne's production dropped because he shot 7.8 *ing percent in 2002-3. That's not any coach's fault. In '03-'04 Gagne played on the most important line on the team (with Keith Primeau), which was a checking line, because there was no way you were going to ask Tony Amonte and LeClair to do that job at that point in their careers (not because they were veterans, but because they would have failed to do it effectively).

In '05-'06, under Hitchcock and without the aforementioned guys on the team, Gagne was put on the first line and popped 47 goals... the best season of his career. Moreover, until injuries devastated that team, we were the best team in the NHL. So, I think we should slow down on the "Hitch's obtuseness to the new NHL train."

Williams and Sharp were on a veteran laden team that was trying to win the Cup... not be a developmental system. That's the price you pay.
You make overall good points something of course I would never expect you to acknowledge of my own points...Nevertheless, my contention is that the Hitchcock factor was very real regardless. No it wasn't the only factor and the article is scant and I didn't agree with the Gagne assessment either however the premise is still not exactly way off with respect to Hitchcock's defensive style and coaching style where he would belittle people to get them motivated. Also I'm not so sure Hitch has his pick of NHL teams....I think around the league they recognize his shortcomings outweigh his strengths. He's a short shelf life coach in a league that keeps getting younger....so again nothing to discount....


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 11-02-2010 at 01:17 PM.
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11-02-2010, 01:27 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
You make overall good points something of course I would never expect you to acknowledge of my own points...Nevertheless, my contention is that the Hitchcock factor was very real regardless. No it wasn't the only factor and the article is scant and I didn't agree with the Gagne assessment either however the premise is still not exactly way off with respect to Hitchcock's defensive style and coaching style where he would belittle people to get them motivated. Also I'm not so sure Hitch has his pick of NHL teams....I think around the league they recognize his shortcomings outweigh his strengths. He's a short shelf life coach in a league that keeps getting younger....so again nothing to discount....
Dude, you cited an article, and I addressed the points in the article... that's acknowledging the points.

Columbus made the postseason for the first time in the club's history under him... that team don't exactly have a track record of success. They had their three best seasons in the organization's history... after Hitch showed up. Why'd they struggle last year (leading to his replacement): largely because their starting goalie dropped to a .901 from a .916 the year before.

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11-02-2010, 01:57 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Dude, you cited an article, and I addressed the points in the article... that's acknowledging the points.

Columbus made the postseason for the first time in the club's history under him... that team don't exactly have a track record of success. They had their three best seasons in the organization's history... after Hitch showed up. Why'd they struggle last year (leading to his replacement): largely because their starting goalie dropped to a .901 from a .916 the year before.
my lord..I'm talking about personal points I make that you may agree with..you just pick out points to challenge which I realize is your shtick. So be it...

I also realize you have an emotional attachment to certain players which we all do but moreso an emotional attachment and fear to possibly being incorrect.

Anyway, I noted that Hitch has a short shelf life ....a lot of teams in this league maybe want a longer term return on their investment especially when it involves having players come in that are a lot younger b/c of the salary cap situation..

In a cap league you don't want a coach that is known to not be good with younger players development as an aggregate. Some people have survived him..more have not.


Last edited by FreshPerspective: 11-02-2010 at 02:03 PM. Reason: sp
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Old
11-02-2010, 02:17 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
my lord..I'm talking about personal points I make that you may agree with..you just pick out points to challenge which I realize is your shtick. So be it...
Dude, the post I responded to the only text you provided was:

Quote:
Maybe so but the Hitchcock effect was also a factor and cannot be discounted. Here is a decent write up on Hitchcock's obtuseness in the new NHL..hence why he's still unemployed.
I addressed the article that you assessed as a "decent write up." I don't think it is. I think it's a writer citing a whiny player that has accomplished jack in the NHL, and provides an imbalanced and ignorant spin on what took place in Philadelphia. Specifically ignoring the context of what was going on with Williams and Sharp, and why they left Philadelphia respectively.

Quote:
I also realize you have an emotional attachment to certain players which we all do but moreso an emotional attachment and fear to possibly being incorrect.
I actually don't have an emotional attachment to any of the players currently on the Flyers roster. Eric Lindros ruined that forever, I just care about the team.

1) Everyone doesn't like to be incorrect.

2) I also tend not to engage on points without informing myself in advance... if I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't talk.

Quote:
Anyway, I noted that Hitch has a short shelf life ....a lot of teams in this league maybe want a longer term return on their investment especially when it involves having players come in that are a lot younger b/c of the salary cap situation..
The vast majority of coaches have a short shelf life -- Laviolette probably being an example of one himself.

Quote:
In a cap league you don't want a coach that is known to not be good with younger players development as an aggregate. Some people have survived him..more have not.
He has coached three teams in the league... one team won a Stanley Cup and reached the finals a 2nd time, the other team he put up a .600+ win pct with before Clarke saddled him with the worst roster in the league and the team went on to be the worst team in the league (without Hitch).

In a cap league, you want to win the Stanley Cup... just like you do in a non-cap league. Sure, there are coaches that are more "developmental" coaches than "veteran" coaches, but a "development" coach is code for a guy you don't sign when you're in "win now" mode. Hitch is certainly more of the latter category, but that's because he's more demanding of perfection from his players... of course, that isn't necessarily a bad thing for players either. They just don't particularly like being told they suck a lot.

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11-02-2010, 05:20 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Justin Williams was dealt because this team was DEVASTATED on the blue line and he was the price for Markov, who was a beast for a team that almost went to (and probably would have won) the SCFs. Sharp ASKED to leave, and they accommodated him.
It surprises me how many people forget these facts, not really here but just dealing with other teams fans when making fun of Flyers past moves and such.

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11-02-2010, 05:22 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
We'll see. Nodl's out for one game and people immediately forget how well he's playing.

It's scary how much unwarranted hatred and disdain Nodl somehow earned on these boards.

I like Wellwood at lot, and I thought last night was really impressive.

Still, throwing Wellwood to the wolves right now, when Nodl has been playing very well, is the wrong move.

EDIT: In another note, I wonder if the champions of justice here on the Flyers' board still think the Phantoms' poor play is still a complete lack of talent and not administration/locker room problems...
That is the main problem, not the only problem. Only a truly blind loyalist would say otherwise.

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11-02-2010, 05:41 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by CavemanLawyer View Post
It surprises me how many people forget these facts, not really here but just dealing with other teams fans when making fun of Flyers past moves and such.
Oh no, people here forget this all the time as well.

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Old
11-02-2010, 06:00 PM
  #88
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If only we didn't have 1.1 million dollars of wasted space taking up a roster spot.

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