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let's rank soccer prospects!!

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Old
05-12-2005, 04:43 AM
  #751
helicecopter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strizzi
-----------------König---------------
Behrami---Senderos---Salatic---Bühler
----------------Djourou-------------
Barnetta-------Zambrella-------Ziegler
-----------Afonso---Vonlanthen------

We actually never had anything like this on the U-20 level, that's pretty impressive for our standard (and for such a small country in general I guess). Our golden generation, so to speak.
I was just going to ask you if you thought Switzerland had ever had in the past such a strong U20 group..
pretty impressive, in fact i think 5 or 6 of these guys will make my overall list.
That's quite a lot. The more i think of it, the more it sounds like something unprecedented for your country. It must be said though one thing is promises, another one is to fulfill potential, but as for talent it's really a promising group.
(considering also Chiumiento, not elegible as a late '84 born ).

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05-12-2005, 05:13 AM
  #752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicecopter
That's quite a lot. The more i think of it, the more it sounds like something unprecedented for your country.
Definitely. No contest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by helicecopter
It must be said though one thing is promises, another one is to fulfill potential
Of course. The one thing that makes me optimistic though is that 8 of them already play abroad, and some of those eight already with considerable success.

How's Zambrella doing btw.? And why is Vonlanthen struggling?

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05-12-2005, 06:14 AM
  #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strizzi
How's Zambrella doing btw.? And why is Vonlanthen struggling?
Premise: Brescia's squad this year has been a complete mess. The number of used players is beyond imagination for such a small club. At the moment there are 25 players on their roster that have been used more than once...
Zambrella had some injury troubles early in the year, has appeared so far in 9 serie A games, being a regular presence in the lineup from the 27th through the 34th.
He was a regular starter (then substituted along the game) most of the times durign that streak.
Unfortunately i have NEVER been able to watch him play (and i never noticed him through highlights so far), so i can't give any judgement.

As for Vonlanthen, i am frankly really irritated for the lack of playing time he has been given since joining. Why take him if not willing to give him a fair chance?
Brescia's attack corp has been an uneffective mess along the season. Aside Caracciolo (best player of the team) there have been a constant turnover involving crappy-hyped Sculli, talented but completely inconsistent and absolute crap this year Del Nero, giant Nygaard, unknown low tier Di Pasquale, aging Del Vecchio and finally Vonlanthen, just to name the ones on the roster at the moment..and add that several times Brescia played with only one striker (Caracciolo) and guys like Schopp or Mannini as support.
When they acquired Vonlanthen back in January i thought he was going to play regularly considering how offensively uneffective the previous solutions had been.. it was not the case as i think he has played so far something like 7 games, and few minutes most of the times. That said, he has been dangerous in two or three games at least and nearly scored for two times last Sunday.
So why is he struggling? Mainly because they don't let him play!
Must be added that it could not be the ideal situation for a 18yrs old foreigner to find himself in a squad that is facing serious contestations from their fans weeks in and weeks out like brescia along the last months.


Last edited by helicecopter: 05-14-2005 at 08:50 AM.
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Old
05-14-2005, 08:48 AM
  #754
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Yesterday for the first time Bologna’s owner Gazzoni openly spoke about Meghni’s future and for what he said it looks like the French will be gone after this season.

He said he regrets he refused big offers for other players in the past and that won’t happen again. He said he has received several offers and he should be able to sell him around the 8M-10M range. Well, all this thing doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

1- As talented as the guy is, Meghni is still completely unproven, being unable so far to establish himself as regular starter on a small team and has big question marks surrounding his capability to ever stay healthy with any consistency.
For these reasons, nowadays 8-10M looks like a lot of money.

2- The guy NEEDS to play regularly, and at this moment going to a big team where he would warm the bench could even furtherly hurt his development.

3- If he stays in Bologna one more year and plays regularly, his market value should only rise.

So it seems to me really premature for him to go in a big team. A more logic eventuality is the guy being acquired by a big team but being left for at least one more season in a lower tier team to play and develop.


Gazzoni also mentioned he would be interested in having Mutu on loan in an eventual deal that would lead Meghni to Juventus.

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05-16-2005, 04:51 PM
  #755
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Just heard about a prospect at Palace - Victor Moses. Only 14 he's played for our under 18 team already.

In the England Schools competition he won his age group on his own with 59 goals in 10 cup games, scoring all 5 in a 5-0 cup final win. Sounds like an exciting talent and a cool name but he must be still 2-3 years away at least.

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Old
05-16-2005, 05:12 PM
  #756
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Strizzi, Barnetta scored a beautiful goal sunday. I was in the stadium and he made 50.000 people really happy.

I'm sad that Bayer want's him back, we could use him so much next season. I would be really mad should Bayer doesn't play him because I'm sure he'd start for us and help us very much!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Barnetta.jpg‎ (28.1 KB, 8 views)

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05-16-2005, 10:31 PM
  #757
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanGirl
Strizzi, Barnetta scored a beautiful goal sunday. I was in the stadium and he made 50.000 people really happy.

I'm sad that Bayer want's him back, we could use him so much next season. I would be really mad should Bayer doesn't play him because I'm sure he'd start for us and help us very much!
Thanks for the info! Unfortunately, I didn't catch any highlights this weekend. I'm also quite sceptical about his early switch to Leverkusen btw., both because I don't like them very much and because he missed most of this season.

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05-17-2005, 10:40 AM
  #758
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21 year-old Philipp Lahm who will play for Bayern Munich next season has torn his ACL and will be out for 6 month.

That's bad, real bad for the NT as well!

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Old
05-17-2005, 11:33 AM
  #759
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Players not ranked yet in their respective leagues’ lists
(in alphabetical order):

Rene Adler- keeper, Germany, Leverkusen- 15/1/85

Ruano Delgado Alexis- central defender, Spain, Malaga- 4/8/85

DeMarcus Beasley- winger, United States, PSV- 24/5/82

Karim Benzema- striker, France, Lyon- 17/12/87

Romeo Castelen- winger, Holland, Feyenoord- 03/05/1983

Fabricio Coloccini- defender, Argentina, Deportivo- 22/1/82

Gianluca Curci- keeper, Italy, Roma- 12/7/85

Abella Perez Damia- rightback, Spain,Barcelona- 15/4/82

Vassiriki Diaby- midfielder, France, Auxerre- 11/5/86

Stewart Downing- winger, England, Middlesbrough- 22/7/84

Jefferson Farfan,- forward, Perù, PSV- 20/10/84

Christian Gentner- midfielder, Germany, Stuttgart- 14/8/85

Lee Holmes- left winger, England, Derby County- 2/4/87

Aaron Hunt- forward, Germany, Werder Bremen– 4/9/86

Jose Manuel Jurado- midfielder, Spain, Real Madrid- 29/6/86

Younes Kaboul- defender, France, Auxerre- 14/1/86

Lionel Messi- striker, Argentina, Barcelona- 24/6/87

John Obi Mikel- midfielder, Nigeria, Lyn- 22/4/1987

Arnold Mvuemba- midfielder, France, Rennes- 28/1/85

Chinedu Ogbuke- striker, Nigeria, Lyn- 1/6/1986

Solomon Okoronkwo- striker, Nigeria, Hertha Berlin- 2/3/1987

Gerard Piqué- central defender, Spain, Manchester Utd- 2/2/87

Quincy Owusu-Abeyie- striker, Holland, Arsenal- 15/4/86

Jose Reina- keeper, Spain, Villareal- 31/8/82

Gonzalo Rodriguez- central defender, Argentina, Villareal- 10/4/84

Taye Taiwo- leftback, Nigeria, Marseille- 16/4/85

Mohamed Sissoko- midfielder, Spain, Valencia- 22/1/85

Jonathan Spector- central defender, United States, Manchester Utd- 3/1/86

Victor Valdes- keeper, Spain, Barcelona- 14/1/82

James Vaughan- striker, England, Everton- 14/7/88

Theo Walcott- winger, England, Southampton- ?/3/89


Last edited by helicecopter: 07-30-2005 at 08:09 AM.
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Old
05-17-2005, 11:46 AM
  #760
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IT’S THERE!
My overall top 100 soccer prospects ranking is finally there on the lists’ thread http://www.hfboards.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=67
I have to say it has been a herculean task to complete it, trying hard to do it as well as possible, even knowing that would be impossible predicting right a lot of things even for one hypothetical observer able to watch all these prospects as much as needed, let alone for someone not able to do that, like me/us.
Please advice if you notice any omissions or typos..
comments are welcome (please post them in this thread only!), both appreciating and criticizing ones, but before letting the criticism begin keep in mind a few things (defensive strategy ):

-This ranking will inevitably look like crap some months from now already, but only years will tell the true story and the good way to look at it in the future should be notice both right and wrong things on it.
-Do your own one! (not necessarily a top100)..Its’ easier to do it now that another overall list is there (for decision purposes and moreover to take note of every prospects and to use copy and paste..)
If no one will post his overall list, mine will remain the official HFboards overall soccer prospects ranking!
-Rankings will keep the 1/1/82 birthdate as limit for elegibility until 30 July 2005; so to do an overall list for this class (or to make a definitve update of your league’s ranking for this class) you should submit it within that date.
Of course I keep the right to modify my ranking until then (so eventually after other ones will have appeared)
After 30 July 2005 all prospects lists (overall or by leagues) will have 1/1/83 as new birthdate limit for elegibility (new leagues’ lists appearing when the season is already over could use that new limit even before 30 July ).
-It’s almost inevitable to have more confidence in drafting the players you know better when you are uncertain.
Another key question to face is choosing between more sure, proven prospects and high risk/potential ones.
I chose to go the latter way for guys like Ben Arfa, Cerci and Lupoli.
One more factor is the position the prospect plays..or the fact he could be a rare package..that can make a bit harder to pass on him. That helped Ignazio Abate or Gerard Piqué ranks. Take Abate for example: in a couple of games this year he left me with the impression he could be something special, he could become the best pure winger Italy had in a long time. Of course as unproven as he is, that’s just a possibility (and that makes the pick very questionable, he could still be easily a bust), but a seductive one.

Ok, now you are free to fire to the author!
(Evilo, i am waiting for you )

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Old
05-17-2005, 12:49 PM
  #761
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Impressive piece of work.. definitely worth saving this list and having a peek again in 3-4 years

The Brøndby-FC Copenhagen game yesterday ended in a historic result, 5-0 to the home side, the biggest between these two (huge) rival teams since FCK was founded (as a merger) 13 years ago.
20-year-old central defender Daniel Agger scored the first goal in the 4th minute, a great header off the post and in from a set piece, but more importantly 15 minutes later made a huge goalline save to deny FCK a way back into the game. He was simply superb throughout the game, making perfect tackles and interceptions, never losing his cool - even after being elbowed in the head by an FCK striker (the ref didn't see it and still had his back turned but Agger declined to retaliate). Two of the main national papers named him man of the match for his performance.
I didn't rank Agger last year as he was at the time one of many young Brøndby players I hadn't seen but only heard about, but as I mentioned in my half-term report, he's been a revelation and has effortlessly replaced Andreas Jakobsson in the heart of the back four. It should be mentioned that Brøndby are on championship course, currently holding an 8-point lead on FCK with 6 rounds remaining.
The #1 prospect on my earlier danish list (and, I can safely reveal, on my coming one, too) - and recently #98-ranked prospect on helicecopter's list - Thomas Kahlenberg, also had an excellent game as the central offensive midfielder. He potted the 2nd and 4th goals for Brøndby, the first of his tallies a cool finish on a semi-breakaway, and the second one a cool finish, also on a semi-break, as FCK had almost stopped playing.
Sebastian Svärd had an alright game at right back for Brøndby, but lost focus a few times.

For FCK, Jesper Bech was a 66th minute substitute. The game was still at 2-0 at the time, but was soon after decided in BIF's favour. Bech showed great technical skill and was the most lively player in white for the period he was on the pitch, but it was too little too late.
Bergvold, Kvist and Bertolt didn't play.

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Old
05-17-2005, 03:18 PM
  #762
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Few comments on the position of the Dutch related 'prospects'. Note that most of the ones I disagree with are my own fault for not having submitted an updated list, which I, ironicly, had planned in the near future (after the season ends, which is sunday)..

Arjen Robben (5)

Anything lower than a top 5 spot would have been unjustice so I'm satisfied with his ranking. However, while Kaka and Adriano are both pretty much a lock for 1 and 2, Robben could have come in 3rd before Torres and Rooney as the difference in potential between these 3 are rather minimal. All in all, I'm not going to be picky. He's well placed.

Ryan Babel (14)

Ryan Babel has had an amazing year. Not only did he become Ajax' answer for the striker position, he also became an international this year. He's produced at every level he's played at so far, be it with Ajax during the competition or in the CL or even for his country, Babel is one of the most promessing strikers in the world at the moment. Reminds me of a mix between Kluivert and Henry, Babel's place in the top 15 is well earned. His succes came very fast though, so people might not like where he's ranked. I might even drop him a few slots as his succes is rather raw, though still top 20.

Robin van Persie (28)

After the season he's having, I think he should be closer to Babel, heck, he might even surpass him. He's been a valueble presence for the Gunners and he seems to got his biggest problem out of the way (immaturity). Expect him to skyrocket on people's list once he will officially replace Dennis Bergkamp. IMO ranked too low, top 20 would've been more appropiate.

Saloman Kalou (33)

Well placed. He's a real goalgetter but lacks the technique and physicality to be higher at the moment. He's quick, fast, always knows where to be and doesn't need many chances, but all of his goals come from within the box. Aside from having a nose for the net, he hasn't showcased elite goalscoring skills by being able to score from elsewhere.

Farfan (36)

Too high. And nearly laughable when you see who he's ranked in front of. I feel that it's Hidding's style and game plan that made him getting the sudden attention. He's a small, feisty winger with a nice inside drive, nice cross, but players like that aren't that hard to find these days.

Wesley Sneijder (37)

Sneijder was not able to continue his strong progression for Ajax this year. However, that was not entirely his fault. Ajax's rather dismal season made every player performing below their capabilities. Sneijder was no exception, but he did maintain consistency, probably more so than anyone else. Where van der Vaart, Heitinga, de Jong, and Maxwell were often benched, Sneijder remained an important piece. At potential, Sneijder should probably be a fair bit higher, but his career in general has been marked by ups and downs, so I tend to agree with his place at the moment.

Alex Rodriga da Costa (39)

My first *real* disagreement. If I were to do a re-do/update, Alex Rodriga da Costa would be in my top 5. He'd even be first if we were to base it soley on this year. I'm a firm believer in that Alex is on par with every other central defender of his age group. I am a huge fan of Kompany, but aside from the age advantage I can not come up with a legit reason why Kompany is ranked *33* spots ahead. I'm not a fan of Brazillians nor a PSV fan, but Alex should be a lot, a lot closer to Kompany.

Klaas Jan-Huntelaar (48)

Heereveen's striker has been among league's top scorers and has been selected a couple times for the Dutch national team now (though yet to play a single minute). Couldn't have placed him better myself.

Rafael van der Vaart (52)

My next big disagreement. Rafael was first on pretty much all of the Dutch lists when this thing got set up (above Robben who's 5th). He's been though a lot this year, and nor he had the dismal season entirely to blame on himself. Once Koeman left and Blind arrived, van der Vaart got to play at #10 again and is slowly becoming the Rafael we all hoped he would become. His upside is still immense. He will leave Ajax after this year though, expect him to thrive when used properly. Should be top 10 based on potential, I'd rank him around 15/20 at the moment.

Hedwiges Maduro (53)

Well placed. Suddenly became a major contributor for Ajax, the 19 year old is making Tomas Galasek (Czech Republic's Captain) expandable and has gotten the preference above Clarence Seedorf and Edgar Davids for the National squad. He's now fighting it out with Rafael, Sneijder, Landzaat and van Bommel.. He will only rise from here on.

Johan Vonlanten (61)

Haven't kept track of his progression ever since he was loaned to Breccia. So I'm unable to give this a fair judgement.

Johnny Heitinga (70)

Way, way way too low. Ajax's subpar season seems to have a lot of people doubting Ajax's young studs. John Heitinga was absolutely stellar in 2003/2004 but got dragged into horrible inconsistent play by his teammates. He's the Dutch future on defense, if not potential Captain, he should be in the top 50, if not top 30. Bad year or not, Heitinga's potential is undeniably or else he wouldn't be in the picture with Juventus while he's having such a lousy year.

Nigel de Jong (78)

About 10 spots higher and I would've agreed if Ajax never were to chance coaches. Nigel de Jong has been Ajax's top player since Blind took over. He's scoring in bunches while covering most of the right flank. Ajax's wants to keep him, Man United wants to buy him, but Nigel seems to want neither at the moment. Nigel de Jong impressed me as well. If Blind never took over I'd have him around the 60th position. But right now, he's just showcasing a huge upside that I find any place outside the top 45 to be unfair.

Obeku Quincy (82)

Extremely hard to place as I've explained earlier. Deemed as a supertalent, Arsenal stole this talent from Ajax in 2003 and has been hard to keep track on ever since. He's played a few games with the Gunners already though, and looked very impressive. Absolute stud of the Dutch under 21 team though and based solely on upside, he is better than Ryan Babel. I'll leave his current posititon for what it is.

Collins John (89)

A strong, physical striker. Since requesting more playing time Collins John has simply not dissapointed for Fullham. He reminds me a lot of a more agile Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink in his prime years. I'd figure a 19 year old who's a valueble player for Fullham in one of the toughest competitions in the world, as well as being a Dutch international, would've been higher than near the bottom of this list though. Definitely top 75 IMO.

Romeo Castelen (97)

Not a fan of his, never was, never will. He's well placed for all I care.


Players who I think should've been on it:

Mika Väyrynen..

Heereveen's MVP is wanted by a lot of teams, including PSV who wants him to step in the footsteps of the Barça bound Marc van Bommel.

Steven Pienaar..

Like most of Ajax's young studs have really turned it around since the arrival of Danny Blind. He's been nothing short of spectacular so far. I really hope he decides to play for Holland instead of South Africa some day..

Ron Vlaar

AZ's central back has been called up for his first international. He's only 19 and we haven't seen a whole lot from him, outside that he was utterly reliable vs Villareal and that he's a personal favorite of Marco van Basten.

Ibrahim Afellay

PSV's brightest talent has been a hot topic as of late. Scored 2 goals (including a beauty) vs Feyenoord this past weekend and is said to be one of the most important players for the WK under 21 for Holland.

Awesome list though.. it's bookmarked..

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05-17-2005, 06:32 PM
  #763
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Awesome job with the combined list, Helice. Opinions are a strange bunch, though...for instance a guy like Jurado didn't even make the Spanish list (I know he received an HM from you though) and yet based on what I've seen from him I'd take him over our #1 Eremenko in a heartbeat. And that's coming from a Finn. Although it *is* kinda tough for a young playmaker to be behind ZIDANE of all people on a club's depth chart.


I also thought I should compare some of Finland's finest national team talents to one another, despite the fact that most of them are too old for this list. Based on what I expect from them in the future, I would rank them as follows:

1.) Alexei Eremenko Jr, 22, Lecce
Not that fast, true. No Litmanen when it comes to playmaking. Often ineffective. Has um...trouble concentrating in a defensive or otherwise strict system. But still I see a lot of tools and potential in him. The kid looks almost like a bodybuilder and yet has a truly exceptional technique for a Finn. He can score 10 freekicks in a row with pinpoint accuracy in practice and has more tricks up his sleeve than any other national team player. He may not have the elite vision but sometimes he does display quite ingeniously clever decisions with the ball (sometimes less so). He appears to have copied Jari Litmanen's penalty taking style and that's a very, very smart thing to do. He can and most definitely will try to score from long range whenever he has a chance. Alexei has a long way to go but once he gets the hang of it we should hear a lot more from him.
2.) Mikael Forssell, 24, Chelsea
A very close second. Has had two serious knee injuries within the last three seasons and that is not a good sign. But the wonderful thing about Forssell is that he refuses to quit and absolutely loves to train and get better. The more demanding coaches like Mourinho praise his attitude and the less demanding are desperate to get him OFF the pitch for a change. I recently saw all the 17 EPL goals he scored in 2003/04 and I gotta say he's come a long way since he, at the age of 17, was asked to teach dribbling to his Chelsea teammates. The Forssell of today is no longer the skinny teenager who was always trying to beat players 1 on 1 with training ground tricks, but rather a full grown man who plays it safe and simple, is easily big and strong enough to hold his own both on the ground and in the air and most importantly can finish nearly every good chance he gets. I wasn't dazzled by a single goal he scored for Birmingham - there were some nice plays but certainly no lightning-fast shots or brilliant solos - but somehow he just found the net. Despite the fact that the team's ability to create chances for him was, to put it nicely, awful. That kind of players don't grow in trees.
3.a) Teemu Tainio, 25, Auxerre->Tottenham
On talent/potential alone I would have put Tainio roughly on par with Forssell, but while Forssell has been a victim of two serious injuries Tainio's ability to injure himself is starting to approach the legendary levels of Saku Koivu. But then again, so is his character. It is extremely hard to dislike a player who gives everything he has on the pitch, is the best defensive player in your midfield (in Finland's case at least) and can also impress you with his playmaking and speed, not to mention score a few decisive goals. No wonder Tainio is the most liked national team player and no wonder Auxerre fans sometimes get the feeling that there are three Tainios on the pitch. If only he was a few inches taller...
3.b) Mika Väyrynen, 23, Heerenveen
Väyrynen has always been the 2nd best Finn in his age group, but merely a notch behind Forssell and a very small notch at that. As a player he is very comparable to Teemu Tainio; just clearly slower, barely taller, a bit weaker and more card prone defensively, somewhat flashier, slightly better at protecting the ball and maybe, just maybe a tiny bit more skilled. And most importantly - less injury prone! I love Väyrynen's playing style with and without the ball. He's always had the flair but nowadays, thanks to his Heerenveen career, he seems to like the color yellow. You won't see many ex-soft-number-10s defend and tackle as hard as he does!
5.) Petri Pasanen, 24, Werder Bremen
There was a time when I thought Pasanen had more potential than Hyypiä, but I'm afraid those days are over now. Pasanen was an early bloomer and seemed to have many tools to succeed as a centre back, but even on good day you just can't tell if he's going to totally misjudge the next situation. He can look rock solid for 85 minutes and then absolutely embarrass himself. Still, he's younger than Hyypiä was when he joined Liverpool so...

Like I said, I know this list is partially off topic but I thought it would give a better picture of where Eremenko and Väyrynen stand IMHO.

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05-18-2005, 05:14 AM
  #764
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Couple of quick comments on Helice's list:

First of all you know that I appreciate the effort and that it looks pretty good overall as far as these lists can look good.


1. Why is Cech so low? He is already a top 4 goalkeeper in the world and he should only improve, yet he is only at #21?

2. I miss Sinama-Pongolle on the list. Le Tallec at 49 is defendable but Sinama not in the list at all is very strange. Same with Bodmer actually.

3. I think JuanFran is very high if not too high. Big talent no doubt but there's a few people not in the top 100 (see 2.) or lower on the list that I'd rather have at this point in time.

4. It's too bad we lack Argentine (tevez, ...), Brazilian (Robinho) Portugese (Diego, ...) and Russian (Cavenaghi, Vagner Love, ...) lists.

Good work overall.

Although I will continue to disagree about Kaka>Adriano

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Old
05-18-2005, 06:33 AM
  #765
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Eh eh eh..i knew to have updates i had to release that damned overall ranking..but i badly needed updates while doing it!! ..so i thought to do it none the less taking the option to eventually fix it later. And i fear i will feel the urgency to update it before the deadline (30/7/2005) after looking at all the comments and the probable new lists.

These first remarks were of course interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mole
..definitely worth saving this list and having a peek again in 3-4 years
I am already worried by the thought to look at it 4 years from now .. but as already said in the inceptive post above, when the time will come, be kind and try to pay attention to the right things as much as to the wrong ones!


Ott = Snott's

Robben: his frailty worried me at #5, let alone higher.. i had doubts between Torres and Rooney at #3, i put Robben at #5 trying to stay positive about his health.

Van Persie: curiously i had him ranked six spots higher few days before the release..but then i had to weight in some others' opinions..
(btw, i have yet to thank everyone contributing along this thread, those who posted their lists and especially Strizzi and Belgian Fan for patiently reply to my questions on particular players)
..note that in the last Dutch update available (Frolov's ranking) he was ranked behind Kalou and Snejider.. also the six guys ahead of him are all great prospects who are for the most a bit more proven than him.

Farfan: of course Hiddink's game plan and PSV success helped his case, but i don't think it's so easy to find these kind of players.. he is just 20 (younger than Alex and Van der Vaart) and he is a dangerous offensive players that brings to the table more than just skills for what i could see.

Alex: another one to drop something like 5 spots in the last couple of days. I could have had him easily at #33, but not higher. I agree with you that he looks underrated by most though (i think he would have been even lower on lists eventually made buy others), i think he is good. But simply not in the same category of Kompany, at least as for class and potential. The Belgian has just much more in himself: better pace and much better acceleration/agility. Much better technique. Much better ability to start the play from rears. So because of his upside i feel comfortable with the distance in their ranks, even if obviously there are no real guarantees he will fulfill his potential.

Van der Vaart: as for talent and potential of course he would deserve better.. but i have increasing doubts about his heart and effectiveness (considering also that Ajax is not a bad place at all to develop..i guess he has had every chance to shine there and he didn't do it so often, especially WHEN I was watching).

Hejtinga: the WHEN I was watching argument comes up again i think.. i wasn't THAT impressed when i was able to watch him. Don't know if i was watching the wrong times..so despite his pedigree i couldn't place him higher. I don't remember having heard before about Juve's interest though.

De Jong: as you suggested, blame yourself for not posting an update before!

Collins John: eh, understandable critics..but try to make an overall ranking and you will have an hard time..you have to drop someone! There are darn good prospects that didn't even make the list.

Ibrahim Afellay: who the hell is this guy?!


overall i am pretty alleviated after reading your comments ( ) as it looks like you agree on most things.


and Sampe's

Mika Väyrynen:i didn't get any updates for a long time... so i decided to make his real birthdate count! ('81 born)

Jurado: the problem is i've never seen him play and i couldn't find enough about him to be confident while putting him on the list..

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05-18-2005, 12:00 PM
  #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgian Fan
1. Why is Cech so low? He is already a top 4 goalkeeper in the world and he should only improve, yet he is only at #21?
First of all i am not a fan at drafting keepers. (not even in hockey where they are more important..but yes of course to draft an 18yrs old is harder than an established guy like Cech)

Unless he is a guy like Buffon, who came in for Parma at 17 playing like a monster, or like Lehtonen in hockey (already special at top level before being drafted, with a couple of things to fix though), i am not going to make him a top pick.
Cech is a very good proven keeper. Probably not a clear difference maker in the future though (outside of the Premiership of course ), something i would hope for most of the guys ahead of him. He could have been at #19 very easily though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgian Fan
2. I miss Sinama-Pongolle on the list. Le Tallec at 49 is defendable but Sinama not in the list at all is very strange. Same with Bodmer actually.
IN THE CASE he will succeed, i can see Pongolle as a quick and pretty talented second striker good scorer. Not over the top potential or something rare if you ask me..but of course i have not seen enough of him to be sure of anything.. just my two cents (the ones i have to trust more while making my list )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgian Fan
3. I think JuanFran is very high if not too high.
You could easily be right.. but how many pure wingers prospects are there at the moment? more than the 3 i placed over him? Of course no one dictates to have more than 3 wingers in the list though..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgian Fan
4. It's too bad we lack Argentine (tevez, ...), Brazilian (Robinho) Portugese (Diego, ...) and Russian (Cavenaghi, Vagner Love, ...) lists.
We actually had a Brazilian one some time ago!
Anyway, it's true we miss them, but i have to say while compiling i thought: thanks god i don't have to consider Argentine and Brazilian prospects too!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgian Fan
Although I will continue to disagree about Kaka>Adriano
Ah, and since when you disagree? (i didn't know it.. not that it is such clear matter..)
anyway, i think May 25th could be a good day to change your mind!

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05-18-2005, 03:24 PM
  #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicecopter
First of all i am not a fan at drafting keepers. (not even in hockey where they are more important..but yes of course to draft an 18yrs old is harder than an established guy like Cech)

Unless he is a guy like Buffon, who came in for Parma at 17 playing like a monster, or like Lehtonen in hockey (already special at top level before being drafted, with a couple of things to fix though), i am not going to make him a top pick.
Cech is a very good proven keeper. Probably not a clear difference maker in the future though (outside of the Premiership of course ), something i would hope for most of the guys ahead of him. He could have been at #19 very easily though.
I really have to disagree here

Quote:
Originally Posted by helicecopter
IN THE CASE he will succeed, i can see Pongolle as a quick and pretty talented second striker good scorer. Not over the top potential or something rare if you ask me..but of course i have not seen enough of him to be sure of anything.. just my two cents (the ones i have to trust more while making my list
Well, if he reaches his potential he should be a top scorer type of guy, at least somewhere around Defoe's level. Remember him and Le Tallec were the two best 17 years olds in the world, over Ronaldo so the potential certainly is there!


Quote:
Originally Posted by helicecopter
Ah, and since when you disagree? (i didn't know it.. not that it is such clear matter..)
anyway, i think May 25th could be a good day to change your mind!
I never talked about it out loud but silently I disagreed
And Kaka'd better have a quiet game on May 25th, otherwise he's in trouble

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05-19-2005, 04:30 AM
  #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgian Fan
I really have to disagree here
It's just i see Cech as a very good keeper, not as a phenom.. and unless the competion is Lehmann, Carroll and Dudek that's not going to give me a consistent edge..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgian Fan
Well, if he reaches his potential he should be a top scorer type of guy, at least somewhere around Defoe's level.
Exactly..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgian Fan
Remember him and Le Tallec were the two best 17 years olds in the world, over Ronaldo so the potential certainly is there!
Who said that? Because of one competition? I don't think Adailton should have been considered the best youngster in the world when he dominated the U20..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgian Fan
I never talked about it out loud but silently I disagreed
I hope to see an overall ranking from you to see where you would place him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belgian Fan
And Kaka'd better have a quiet game on May 25th, otherwise he's in trouble
Hooligan!!!

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05-19-2005, 09:16 AM
  #769
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Originally Posted by helicecopter
(Evilo, i am waiting for you )
Here I come!

Nah there are some pretty messed up things on your list concerning players out of the french list.
Right now, many players are considered better prospects than Nilmar (Essien, Bodmer, Mavuba, Menez, Toulalan, Kallstrom...).
The fact that he's brazilian doesn't mean he's an automatic better prospect .
Essien (who's not french BTW) out of the top 15 is completely news to me.
And please why on earth would Mido be on the list when so many guys are not (and SHOULD be) : Sinama and Bodmer among others.
Maybe it's me, but I have the feeling guys like Messi, Nasri, Essien, Reyes, Cech, Fabregas, Mexes and co are worth much more than Iniesta or Ramos.
Spanish guys are a bit mixed up IMO.
The best spanish prospect is IMO Fabregas, with Pique second. And on your list they're much too low compared with Iniesta and Ramos.

But hey it's your list, you did a good job ranking all these guys, I simply feel a few country lists are mixed up.

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05-19-2005, 09:32 AM
  #770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Maybe it's me, but I have the feeling guys like Messi, Nasri, Essien, Reyes, Cech, Fabregas, Mexes and co are worth much more than Iniesta or Ramos.
I could agree with many of your objections, but Mexes worth more than Ramos? The transfer market seems to see this differently, even tough Ramos is younger... Then again, we seem to have seen different versions of Mexes.

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05-19-2005, 09:40 AM
  #771
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Here I come!

Nah there are some pretty messed up things on your list concerning players out of the french list.
Right now, many players are considered better prospects than Nilmar (Essien, Bodmer, Mavuba, Menez, Toulalan, Kallstrom...).
The fact that he's brazilian doesn't mean he's an automatic better prospect ..
Nilmar was 4th overall in your last overall French ranking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Essien (who's not french BTW) out of the top 15 is completely news to me.
I knew he is not French, but still wrote otherwise (now it's fixed, thanks for the notice).
btw, is his birthdate on your list right? His birthdate is 8/12/82 on most sites.
Same doubts about Menez.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
And please why on earth would Mido be on the list when so many guys are not (and SHOULD be) : Sinama and Bodmer among others.
As stupid as he is, Mido has more potential than Sinama and Bodmer put together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
Maybe it's me, but I have the feeling guys like Messi, Nasri, Essien, Reyes, Cech, Fabregas, Mexes and co are worth much more than Iniesta or Ramos.
Do your own overall ranking!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo
I simply feel a few country lists are mixed up.
Can't be sure of the contrary.

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05-19-2005, 10:17 AM
  #772
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helicecopter
Nilmar was 4th overall in your last overall French ranking.

I knew he is not French, but still wrote otherwise (now it's fixed, thanks for the notice).
btw, is his birthdate on your list right? His birthdate is 8/12/82 on most sites.
Same doubts about Menez.

As stupid as he is, Mido has more potential than Sinama and Bodmer put together.

Do your own overall ranking!

Can't be sure of the contrary.
Nah Nilmar was not 4th overall on my strikers POTENTIAL list.
He impressed me a lot when he came up, but since then he hasn't shown much.
For the birth dates, I think I used L'Equipe's site.
And no Mido doesn't have half of Sinama's potential.
Keep in mind Sinama dominated like few players ever did as a 17 year old. The same can't be said for Mido.
Bodmer is an unkown for most of you, fine. You'll soon learn to say his name.
As for my overall ranking, I could, but I see very few of many of these guys, so I can't be objective.
Doing a french list is hard enough because of all the good prospects. Doing a world list is probably out of my capacity.
If I have time though I'll take a crack at it and see if I can come with a top 30-50.

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05-19-2005, 10:20 AM
  #773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strizzi
I could agree with many of your objections, but Mexes worth more than Ramos? The transfer market seems to see this differently, even tough Ramos is younger... Then again, we seem to have seen different versions of Mexes.
Well Mexes is only 22. Many people here forget that because he's been a regular performer since age 18.
There's no doubt he's struggled this year.
But you can't forget his previous years.
Basically, him and Yepes were the two best defensemen in the league, even though he was only 20.
So yes I feel a Mexes is at least worth a Ramos based on how one is proven and the other not yet.
Afterall if not for his rough year in Roma, Mexes would be a starter for the national team (he was pencilled to be before his struggles).

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05-19-2005, 10:23 AM
  #774
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And BTW, I agree with BF. Cech is already a difference maker. He doesn't make many flashy saves, but he's always there to make the save. The only weak goal I've seen him give up is one against Bayern.
And BTW, Cech WAS a phenom in the youngsters category.

Personally, I see Sinama as having Eto'o type of potential. Fast, agile and punishing.
Of course he's struggling in liverpool. He needs some quality playing time.

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05-19-2005, 12:12 PM
  #775
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This will sound very homeristic, but I don't believe Mido is "stupid", nor does he act like a prima donna any more. He's apologised to the national team coach and is now a regular again, and he's admitted that he's done many things wrong in the past.
Everything about his arrival at Spurs has been positive (I was very skeptic but he's convinced me by his comments as well as his play) and he's had no trouble accepting a 4th striker role behind Keane/Defoe/Kanouté. I think he's definitely got the potential to succeed in the Premier League, and he'll be battling with Kanouté next season for the 'target man' spot.
Seeing Ziegler on the list is also a nice surprise, but I'm not sure he really deserves it.. f.x. Andy Reid (July '82), his direct rival at Tottenham, is already a full international (close to 20 caps) with Eire.

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