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10-30-10: Take him to Detroit - Preds @ Wings

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Old
10-31-2010, 11:26 PM
  #101
I Will Son
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK All Day View Post
He was on the ice for 4 goals.

Franson > Sulzer

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11-01-2010, 07:16 AM
  #102
glenngineer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK All Day View Post
He was on the ice for 4 goals.

Franson > Sulzer
So using that logic Franson is better than Weber and Suter since last year both of them were on the ice for 5 goals against us in a game. I see a little flaw here but that's just me.

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11-01-2010, 08:45 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK All Day View Post
He was on the ice for 4 goals.

Franson > Sulzer
Best logic I've seen on here in a while...

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Old
11-01-2010, 09:38 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK All Day View Post
He was on the ice for 4 goals.

Franson > Sulzer
Using this logic...

Klein > Weber (on for 3), Franson (on for 2), O'Brien (on for 1), Sulzer

riiiiiight.

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Old
11-01-2010, 11:54 AM
  #105
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About right... Klein's versatile. Weber just has a big shot. (I learned the part about Weber from a post on the main board recently...)

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Old
11-01-2010, 03:32 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
So using that logic Franson is better than Weber and Suter since last year both of them were on the ice for 5 goals against us in a game. I see a little flaw here but that's just me.
haha im just messing around, yall read into posts and try to sound smart way too much. i just cant stand all the franson haters.

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Old
11-01-2010, 03:33 PM
  #107
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but really Franson > Sulzer hahahahh

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11-01-2010, 04:04 PM
  #108
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Having an opinion isn't "trying to sound smart", nor is it being a hater. Sulzer and Franson bring different attributes to the defense. At this point in their careers Franson ought to be better on the NHL level than Sulzer considering his larger amount of experience, but to say one is better than the other because of +/- in one game is a bit weak.

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11-01-2010, 05:36 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Having an opinion isn't "trying to sound smart", nor is it being a hater. Sulzer and Franson bring different attributes to the defense. At this point in their careers Franson ought to be better on the NHL level than Sulzer considering his larger amount of experience, but to say one is better than the other because of +/- in one game is a bit weak.
to say someone is better because of more ice time is weak as well. Just cause trotzy put Sulzer on the ice during the PK/PP makes him better than Franson? No. Franson has a way bigger upside than Sulzer. You guys just arent patient. You have to have offensive D man on your team, especially considering we arent exactly the best team at scoring goals. and the reality is Sulzer and Klein are responsible for more opponent goals than Cody is. I guess its personal opinion on who you think is better but...........................Franson > Sulzer hahahaha

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Old
11-01-2010, 07:31 PM
  #110
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No single stat from an individual game is going to be a clear indicator of which players were better than others. TOI does, however, give you an idea of which players were trusted more by the coaching staff for that particular game. I also don't think it's very fair to accuse individual players for being responsible for more goals than another. Usually when a goal is scored there are a number of things that could have happened differently. Does a single player tend to have more responsibility for a goal against? Sure, but that doesn't mean everyone else on the ice is clear of any fault. It's a team game still.

As for "you guys just aren't patient", I'm going to side step the attempt at lumping me in with whatever group to which you are referring. I like Franson's potential, I just don't think he's any where close to having reached it. He's learning. Besides, I'm a Nashville Predators fan. If I weren't patient I'd probably be in prison for a violent crime by now.

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11-01-2010, 08:35 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK All Day View Post
to say someone is better because of more ice time is weak as well. Just cause trotzy put Sulzer on the ice during the PK/PP makes him better than Franson? No. Franson has a way bigger upside than Sulzer. You guys just arent patient. You have to have offensive D man on your team, especially considering we arent exactly the best team at scoring goals. and the reality is Sulzer and Klein are responsible for more opponent goals than Cody is. I guess its personal opinion on who you think is better but...........................Franson > Sulzer hahahaha
No, ice time doesn't make him better, but....as thirdman pointed out, it does show who the coach has more faith in. Sulzer had more TOI in both of the last two games than franson. Why would the coaching staff give a guy that was just called up from Milwaukee more ice time than this guy that some are saying is so much better.

Sulzer even got more PP time...franson is supposed to be a PP specialist.

I hear people complaining about all the "hate" towards franson, well I get tired of people saying how spectacular franson is. He's adequate. He's a 5th or 6th, not a 2nd or 3rd as some are saying. And pointing out perceived faults is not "hating on" a player.

And yes, Klein and sulzer are on the ice for more goals than franson (notice I didn't say responsible for, I will again cite Thirdman's post,)...because they are on the ice more throughout the game, and they're getting more time against the better lines, just look at the match up and you can see it.

Finally, yes, it is a matter of opinion, but try to back it up with something other than f > S.
Thank you.

And SK, this isn't an attack toward you. You just happened to be the last one posting this opinion. I do have a question for you though (or any on the other franson "lovers") What makes you think he has sooo much more upside than sulzer?

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Old
11-01-2010, 08:50 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK All Day View Post
Franson has a way bigger upside than Sulzer.
please elaborate on this. i am curious

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Old
11-01-2010, 11:20 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatedandproud View Post
No, ice time doesn't make him better, but....as thirdman pointed out, it does show who the coach has more faith in. Sulzer had more TOI in both of the last two games than franson. Why would the coaching staff give a guy that was just called up from Milwaukee more ice time than this guy that some are saying is so much better.

Sulzer even got more PP time...franson is supposed to be a PP specialist.

I hear people complaining about all the "hate" towards franson, well I get tired of people saying how spectacular franson is. He's adequate. He's a 5th or 6th, not a 2nd or 3rd as some are saying. And pointing out perceived faults is not "hating on" a player.

And yes, Klein and sulzer are on the ice for more goals than franson (notice I didn't say responsible for, I will again cite Thirdman's post,)...because they are on the ice more throughout the game, and they're getting more time against the better lines, just look at the match up and you can see it.

First, sulzer wasnt called up he has been a healthy scratch, regardless the coaching staff trusted/believes(d) in Franson more than Sulzer and they showed it by Cody making the team out of camp while sulzer sat in the press box.

Second, quoting Thirdman, one game and stat doesnt justify a players potential/skill/overall greatness over another player.

Finally , Cody's speed and not willing to hit is an issue while Sulzer's turnovers and decision making is an issue but overall they are both learning and in their respective growing stages in the NHL (yes, no matter if Franson has played a whole extra year, He was "the most protected player in the nhl" remember? While Sulzer played in the Olympics against the best) So on the outcome of my post i will say i think both defenseman are their own breed of players and time will tell which one will benefit the predators the most, and i am not hating on you hatedandproud just my opinions and observations.

BTW, Cody has as many points as Wilson, and on an offensively starved team, I'd view that as valuable until we show we dont need offense from Dman so as of nowwe need all the points we can get. IMHO

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Old
11-02-2010, 01:00 AM
  #114
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I like Franson's potential, I just don't think he's any where close to having reached it. He's learning..[/QUOTE]

Well you said it right here.

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Old
11-02-2010, 02:06 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goc Ya View Post
First, sulzer wasnt called up he has been a healthy scratch, regardless the coaching staff trusted/believes(d) in Franson more than Sulzer and they showed it by Cody making the team out of camp while sulzer sat in the press box.

Second, quoting Thirdman, one game and stat doesnt justify a players potential/skill/overall greatness over another player.

Finally , Cody's speed and not willing to hit is an issue while Sulzer's turnovers and decision making is an issue but overall they are both learning and in their respective growing stages in the NHL (yes, no matter if Franson has played a whole extra year, He was "the most protected player in the nhl" remember? While Sulzer played in the Olympics against the best) So on the outcome of my post i will say i think both defenseman are their own breed of players and time will tell which one will benefit the predators the most, and i am not hating on you hatedandproud just my opinions and observations.

BTW, Cody has as many points as Wilson, and on an offensively starved team, I'd view that as valuable until we show we dont need offense from Dman so as of nowwe need all the points we can get. IMHO
You are right, Sulzer was pressbox man, not a call-up.
So if the coaching staff believes in franson so much better, why are they playing the former healthy scratch more minutes (alot more minutes)? And this is not just one game...it's the last 4 games. In sulzer's first game in, which is 5 games ago, Franson had :34 seconds more TOI than sulzer.
While they thought franson was better out of camp, it sure looks to me like that opinion has changed.

Now, you want to talk about turnovers and decision making. I would urge you to visit On The Forecheck. They have a feature where they breakdown how goals are scored. They brokedown detroit's second goal this time. Please go take a look at it and tell me who was making the poor decisions.(All those people saying "Sulzer was on the ice for 4 goals," you need to take a look at that breakdown as well.)
And did you happen to see the 2 consecutive turnovers by franson there in the first?

But again you are right, they are different players and time will tell which one will benefit the predators the most.
I just don't think he is anywhere close to the hype he is receiving from some people on these boards.

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Old
11-02-2010, 02:56 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatedandproud View Post
You are right, Sulzer was pressbox man, not a call-up.
So if the coaching staff believes in franson so much better, why are they playing the former healthy scratch more minutes (alot more minutes)? And this is not just one game...it's the last 4 games. In sulzer's first game in, which is 5 games ago, Franson had :34 seconds more TOI than sulzer.
While they thought franson was better out of camp, it sure looks to me like that opinion has changed.

Now, you want to talk about turnovers and decision making. I would urge you to visit On The Forecheck. They have a feature where they breakdown how goals are scored. They brokedown detroit's second goal this time. Please go take a look at it and tell me who was making the poor decisions.(All those people saying "Sulzer was on the ice for 4 goals," you need to take a look at that breakdown as well.)
And did you happen to see the 2 consecutive turnovers by franson there in the first?

But again you are right, they are different players and time will tell which one will benefit the predators the most.
I just don't think he is anywhere close to the hype he is receiving from some people on these boards.
When Suter is back and we have to send someone down. Its gonna be Sulzer not Franson. He is only getting more minutes because he is a defensive d-man where Franson is more of a Offensive D- Man. Franson > Sulzer

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11-02-2010, 03:05 PM
  #117
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Alright, who's got tomorrow's GDT? First to call it gets it!

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11-02-2010, 03:11 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
please elaborate on this. i am curious
I think Franson has way more upside. I think offensively it's not even close. Franson's shot is just behind Weber's on the team. He has really good offensive instinct too.

I think the knocks on him are knocks many great defensemen start out with, like blown coverage down low, not playing physical at the right times, etc. Do you remember when Pronger was young? He was often blasted for doing many of the same things.

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11-02-2010, 04:39 PM
  #119
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Franson couldve been at fault for that 2nd Detroit goal and had a couple turnovers but every defenseman has their games and every time someone scores a goal "someone" is at fault whether it be the goalie, a forward not being able to clear it, or a Dman getting pick pocketed or a bad pass. I mean look at Detroits 3rd goal when Spaling got worked by Datsyuk and Pavel scored, Shea Weber was in front of the net looking at Datsyuk charge to the front of the net and then he buried it past Rinne while Shea left Datsyuk untouched after he beat Spaling and got around him. Spalings fault? Yea sure you could argue that, but Spaling vs Datsyuk hahaha Datsyuk will beat him anytime 1 on 1 so why wouldnt Weber pinch down when he saw Spaling get beat? Maybe he didnt want to leave a guy wide open? But Boullion was on his other side so he coulve covered for him. What im trying to say is you cant look at a few bad plays a player makes and say hes not helpful to this team or hes soft as a marshmallow, because the predator coaches dont think like that, and if they did i highly doubt we'd be watching Martin Erat skate around in a Preds uniform.

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11-02-2010, 07:03 PM
  #120
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I hope that both d-men give us a solid game and if they do or do no, ultimately a Preds victory! I cannot wait until tomorrow's game so that we can give this topic a rest.


even if just for a few days?

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11-02-2010, 07:08 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Do you remember when Pronger was young? He was often blasted for doing many of the same things.
you are going to wake next to a horse head for this comment

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11-02-2010, 08:41 PM
  #122
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Well, I just want to be clear here, I'm not a franson hater. I hope he succeeds beyond the hype, I hope he does turn into the next pronger unfortunately, in my eyes, things are looking more zidlicky than weber.

I'm not as sure as some are that he will keep his spot once Suter is ready. We'll see.

Also tootoo > sk74

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11-02-2010, 08:43 PM
  #123
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you are going to wake next to a horse head for this comment
I know where you live....

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11-02-2010, 11:16 PM
  #124
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Im sick of trolling this GDT, is it time for Phoenix yet?

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11-02-2010, 11:41 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatedandproud View Post
Well, I just want to be clear here, I'm not a franson hater. I hope he succeeds beyond the hype, I hope he does turn into the next pronger unfortunately, in my eyes, things are looking more zidlicky than weber.

I'm not as sure as some are that he will keep his spot once Suter is ready. We'll see.

Also tootoo > sk74
disagree completely

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