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Old
11-02-2010, 05:56 PM
  #51
JDM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... OK, first off JDM, there's no need to be condescending about this. I'm not advocating switching Brown to the LW for fun or for ****s and giggles. This is about getting three guys into the lineup who may complement one another, getting three guys who deserve the chance to be in the top 6 the opportunity to play on a top line together without breaking up the line that's on fire. Is that a bad thing?
Didn't mean to be condescending. Wasn't trying to be.

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So, Brown mentioned that it took him some time to get adjusted to LW. That's a bit of a no-brainer, wouldn't you think??? Of course there's going to be an adjustment period. And no, he didn't play well in terms of point production in those 15 games. But - we're talking about 15 games here, 15 games that the team played out of the playoff race, 15 games where the team was simply playing out the string.

Brown in the month of March:

March, 2008 -- 14 games, 4 goals, 8 points, -5, 7.7% shooting
March, 2009 -- 15 games, 1 goal, 5 points, -6, 2.4% shooting
March, 2010 -- 15 games, 3 goals, 4 points, -9, 7.7% shooting

In each season, March was Brown's worst month, whether he was moved to another position or not - so how much stock can you put in that kind of sample size?
Fair enough. March is a bad month for Brown.

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I'd rather give Brown another chance at LW, see what Simmonds can do for the dynamic of that line, and go with three deserving guys rather than bumping up Richardson, who really doesn't belong on a top line in the NHL; or Parse, who is just starting his season now.
Richies game suits any line imo. Does he have top 3 skill? No. But he does have top 3 hustle and enough hockey smarts and tenacity to compliment anyone, skill or otherwise.

I don't particularly like Parse getting the shot on the first line either. However I remember Parse and Stoll not doing well together, and as I've said before, I don't think Parse is a bottom six type player at all. Parse is all skill and needs to be in a top 6 role to be successful.

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No solution at this point is going to be without question marks, is it?
Well, obviously. But why not go with conventional wisdom before trying the unconventional? Some things (like Brown on LW) have more question marks than others (like keeping the natural RWs on RW).

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Why not go with your best players?
Because the team is playing great. Because Poni-Zus-Simmonds is the third line of Terry Murray's dreams. Because Simmonds hasn't been as good this season as he was the last. Because the team is playing great!

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Old
11-02-2010, 05:59 PM
  #52
Andrew Knoll
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I don't see the need for a conditioning assignment, he seems like he is in fine shape and he hasn't been gone so long that he desperately needs game action.

If they don't feel he's ready immediately, they don't have to dress him. Loktionov has not been dressing regularly with Richardson moving up so it's not like there is some immediate need.

The Kings will probably do the rent-a-forward thing at the deadline, at this point screams LW but who knows with injuries? They are well positioned to rent a free-agent to be, plenty of money plus expendable assets. I wouldn't envision them pursuing a guy for the long haul, plus there are not too many of them available anyway.

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11-02-2010, 06:05 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... OK, first off JDM, there's no need to be condescending about this.
????

Can you explain to me and I am sure JDM will probably ask the same question.
How is this post at all condescending?

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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Also, if memory serves, he played by far his worst hockey on the LW. You can't just switch around guys positions just for fun. Not everyone easily adapts to different forward positions.

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11-02-2010, 06:30 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... I have some mixed feelings on this. I felt like Loktionov didn't do much to earn the spot on the top line - that it was just handed to him instead of to someone who, in my mind, deserved it (Simmonds). But, on the other hand, I didn't think that Kopitar did enough as a #1 center and the marquee forward on the team to elevate the play of his linemates. Like it or not, Kopitar is the man most responsible for the failures of his line to generate the offense that was expected of them in the early part of the season.
Minus the NJ game, I think Kopitar has played well. The results aren't there right now, but they will come.

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11-02-2010, 06:59 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... OK, first off JDM, there's no need to be condescending about this. I'm not advocating switching Brown to the LW for fun or for ****s and giggles. This is about getting three guys into the lineup who may complement one another, getting three guys who deserve the chance to be in the top 6 the opportunity to play on a top line together without breaking up the line that's on fire. Is that a bad thing?

So, Brown mentioned that it took him some time to get adjusted to LW. That's a bit of a no-brainer, wouldn't you think??? Of course there's going to be an adjustment period. And no, he didn't play well in terms of point production in those 15 games. But - we're talking about 15 games here, 15 games that the team played out of the playoff race, 15 games where the team was simply playing out the string.

Brown in the month of March:

March, 2008 -- 14 games, 4 goals, 8 points, -5, 7.7% shooting
March, 2009 -- 15 games, 1 goal, 5 points, -6, 2.4% shooting
March, 2010 -- 15 games, 3 goals, 4 points, -9, 7.7% shooting

In each season, March was Brown's worst month, whether he was moved to another position or not - so how much stock can you put in that kind of sample size?

I'd rather give Brown another chance at LW, see what Simmonds can do for the dynamic of that line, and go with three deserving guys rather than bumping up Richardson, who really doesn't belong on a top line in the NHL; or Parse, who is just starting his season now. No solution at this point is going to be without question marks, is it? Why not go with your best players?
I may get flamed for saying this, but Kopi's line has not been the #1 line all season long, and as of right now it's the perfect place to fit Parse. If anything maybe it will open things up a bit more for Kopi. The 2nd line has carried this team this season so far (offensively of course), and it would be foolish to change the 2nd or 3rd lines at this point, and putting him on the 4th line makes no sense at all.

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11-02-2010, 07:01 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Winger23 View Post
I may get flamed for saying this, but Kopi's line has not been the #1 line all season long, and as of right now it's the perfect place to fit Parse. If anything maybe it will open things up a bit more for Kopi. The 2nd line has carried this team this season so far (offensively of course), and it would be foolish to change the 2nd or 3rd lines at this point, and putting him on the 4th line makes no sense at all.
Why would we flame you for speaking the truth?

Smyth-Stoll-Williams is the first line all the way.

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11-02-2010, 07:17 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Why would we flame you for speaking the truth?

Smyth-Stoll-Williams is the first line all the way.
It's obvious on both fronts, really, clearly the 27 points the Stoll line has put up since being composed as it is is way more than the other lines, hell it's more than they've put up combined.

Add to that the fact that the top line LW position has been the only one that's really been in flux with the change from Smyth to Loktionov to Richardson and it seems clear that Parse may get a shot there very soon if not immediately.

That sort of makes me think the Kings need a left wing.

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11-02-2010, 07:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Cook24 View Post
Parse has been skating for almost two weeks now. No conditioning assignment needed. He might have some cobwebs the first game or two, but no different than every other player at the beginning of the season.

http://lakingsinsider.com/2010/11/02/parses-big-return/
Do you really want a guy who might have some cobwebs on your top line?

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11-02-2010, 07:43 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Richies game suits any line imo. Does he have top 3 skill? No. But he does have top 3 hustle and enough hockey smarts and tenacity to compliment anyone, skill or otherwise.
... All Richardson is going to do on the top line is hold the line's production down. If that's what you want, then by all means plug Richardson in there.

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Originally Posted by Winger23 View Post
I may get flamed for saying this, but Kopi's line has not been the #1 line all season long, and as of right now it's the perfect place to fit Parse. If anything maybe it will open things up a bit more for Kopi. The 2nd line has carried this team this season so far (offensively of course), and it would be foolish to change the 2nd or 3rd lines at this point, and putting him on the 4th line makes no sense at all.
... Kopitar and Brown get more ice time than Williams and Stoll. Smyth is in there between Kopitar and Brown because he was on the top line early on and has shuttled between both top lines. Even with Murray well aware of the way the Stoll line has been producing, Kopitar's line got more ice time in the New Jersey game. Regardless of how they're scoring or not scoring, the line that gets the most time out there is in fact the top line - and I don't believe that a guy who's just beginning his season, like Parse, is ready to be logging 17-19 minutes a game on Kopitar's line.

I don't see where it's foolish to change the third line at all to bump up Simmonds; in fact, it might get people to stop saying silly things like "Simmonds isn't as good this season" when in fact he is playing two fewer minutes per game than he did last season yet contributing at the same pace. Unless he finds a way to score points from the bench, he's doing about as much as can be expected at this point. I honestly feel like Simmonds is being held back right now, that we're being made to expect 40 points from a guy who is capable of 65-70. And besides - changing around players is so FUN! It's all about fun. We're here to have fun, right? It's a game. Did I mention fun?

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11-02-2010, 07:56 PM
  #60
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Mmmmmk..

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11-02-2010, 08:24 PM
  #61
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Good move, this kid is going to be special. Send Schenn and Clifford down as well so hopefully they can shine at World Jr.

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11-02-2010, 08:50 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
How so? Is Parse back?
Yes. Murray said Parse is going to step in on the first line with Kopitar and Brown.

I am fine with the move. Right now there really isn't much room for Loktionov other than the fourth line, though he is pretty good as a powerplay specialist. Schenn shouldn't be playing in juniors anymore, though him burning a year on his contract isn't very appealing, him getting NHL experience and developing into a better player is. The kids shouldn't be sitting in the press box as healthy scratches and need to be playing in some way other than practice against pros.

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11-02-2010, 09:43 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post

I don't see where it's foolish to change the third line at all to bump up Simmonds; in fact, it might get people to stop saying silly things like "Simmonds isn't as good this season" when in fact he is playing two fewer minutes per game than he did last season yet contributing at the same pace. Unless he finds a way to score points from the bench, he's doing about as much as can be expected at this point. I honestly feel like Simmonds is being held back right now, that we're being made to expect 40 points from a guy who is capable of 65-70. And besides - changing around players is so FUN! It's all about fun. We're here to have fun, right? It's a game. Did I mention fun?
It's not so much "punishing" Simmonds for wanting to keep him where he's at, it's the fact that he is still able to produce while being put on the shut down line. I'm not so sure parse can excel with that kind of expectation.

Whether or not Parse should be sent for conditioning first is another debate, and for now it's not like they can't double shift someone here and there (ala Simmonds) to limit his ice time somewhat until he gets back into game shape.

With the exception of Richie's hat trick (and I could be wrong but I don't think the 1st line had a hand in all 3 of them), the LW on the 1st line has not been producing, but hasn't necessarily hurt the team either. I don't see how parse can provide any less production than whats already been occurring.

Just a random thought too, if DL is trying to acquire a LW in a trade, perhaps this will give parse the exposure/time he needs in order to impress to raise his stock some?

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11-02-2010, 10:06 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT Dutch View Post
... All Richardson is going to do on the top line is hold the line's production down. If that's what you want, then by all means plug Richardson in there.



... Kopitar and Brown get more ice time than Williams and Stoll. Smyth is in there between Kopitar and Brown because he was on the top line early on and has shuttled between both top lines. Even with Murray well aware of the way the Stoll line has been producing, Kopitar's line got more ice time in the New Jersey game. Regardless of how they're scoring or not scoring, the line that gets the most time out there is in fact the top line - and I don't believe that a guy who's just beginning his season, like Parse, is ready to be logging 17-19 minutes a game on Kopitar's line.

I don't see where it's foolish to change the third line at all to bump up Simmonds; in fact, it might get people to stop saying silly things like "Simmonds isn't as good this season" when in fact he is playing two fewer minutes per game than he did last season yet contributing at the same pace. Unless he finds a way to score points from the bench, he's doing about as much as can be expected at this point. I honestly feel like Simmonds is being held back right now, that we're being made to expect 40 points from a guy who is capable of 65-70. And besides - changing around players is so FUN! It's all about fun. We're here to have fun, right? It's a game. Did I mention fun?
I think the TOI, is more a victim of special teams. The fact that at the moment Stoll is playing almost the whole 2 mins of the PP and Smyth on the second unit means that after the PP there are generally atleast 2 more shifts before the "2nd" line can get back on the ice. This leads to Williams and some cases Smyth maybe going 4 mins without ice time or very little, and that's if the penalty is drawn while they are on the ice(even more if its right before they are to get on). The penalty kill works the same way, especially since neither Smyth nor Stoll generally PK together. Meaning that and the end of the PK its gonna be atleast 2 shifts till they are back out there together.

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11-02-2010, 10:17 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Yes. Murray said Parse is going to step in on the first line with Kopitar and Brown.

I am fine with the move. Right now there really isn't much room for Loktionov other than the fourth line, though he is pretty good as a powerplay specialist. Schenn shouldn't be playing in juniors anymore, though him burning a year on his contract isn't very appealing, him getting NHL experience and developing into a better player is. The kids shouldn't be sitting in the press box as healthy scratches and need to be playing in some way other than practice against pros.
You vote for Clifford to return to juniors? Go with Richardson-Schenn-Westgarth/Lewis?

I still prefer the Clifford-Richardson-Westgarth/Lewis line.

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11-02-2010, 10:22 PM
  #66
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Do you really want a guy who might have some cobwebs on your top line?
Yes. Parse has more experience than Loktionov.

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11-02-2010, 10:42 PM
  #67
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I like Parse and all, but I say give Poni a chance on the 1st line.

Poni-Kopitar-Brown
Smyth-Stoll-Williams
Parse-Handzus-Simmonds
Richardson-Schenn-Clifford

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11-03-2010, 12:39 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
I like Parse and all, but I say give Poni a chance on the 1st line.

Poni-Kopitar-Brown
Smyth-Stoll-Williams
Parse-Handzus-Simmonds
Richardson-Schenn-Clifford
Let's not and say we did on that one. Handzus and Simmonds are integrating Ponikarovsky into that line well now and he fits into their low-cycling, grinding game. Who takes his spot and fills in well there? He's also playing solid defense. He is a good fit for that line at both ends of the ice if you ask me.

Meanwhile, we have seen him as a top line player, he was not very effective. Kopitar/Poni would give me flashbacks to Sundin/Poni, a combo that was frustrating even if you were rooting for them to fail.

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11-03-2010, 12:59 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Danny Duberstein View Post
Let's not and say we did on that one. Handzus and Simmonds are integrating Ponikarovsky into that line well now and he fits into their low-cycling, grinding game. Who takes his spot and fills in well there? He's also playing solid defense. He is a good fit for that line at both ends of the ice if you ask me.

Meanwhile, we have seen him as a top line player, he was not very effective. Kopitar/Poni would give me flashbacks to Sundin/Poni, a combo that was frustrating even if you were rooting for them to fail.
Parse on the 3rd line, and Poni on the 1st is a more efficient allocation of our resources IMO. At the very least it's worth a try. Keep in mind that Parse played on the 3rd line with Handzus/Simmonds last year and they were excellent, so it's not like that line is being downgraded.

And I just don't like the idea of immediately throwing Parse on the 1st line. It might work, but I'd like to see Poni at least get a chance, he deserves it more than Parse right now. AP is only getting 13 minutes of TOI per game right now.

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11-03-2010, 04:50 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by jimmy1100 View Post
I still maintain that Parse will put up solid numbers playing alongside Kopitar. Granted, anyone should be able to put up numbers playing on Kopitar's wing, but I think Parse is potentially an excellent complement to Kopitar. If they gel, Parse will blow some people's minds.


I hope...I wish...I hope...

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11-04-2010, 01:46 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Parse on the 3rd line, and Poni on the 1st is a more efficient allocation of our resources IMO. At the very least it's worth a try. Keep in mind that Parse played on the 3rd line with Handzus/Simmonds last year and they were excellent, so it's not like that line is being downgraded.

And I just don't like the idea of immediately throwing Parse on the 1st line. It might work, but I'd like to see Poni at least get a chance, he deserves it more than Parse right now. AP is only getting 13 minutes of TOI per game right now.
I like the way Ponikarovsky is fitting into that third line now, I don't think Parse would be a bad addition there but I just look at the #2 and #3 lines' performance now and figure they are worth keeping together.

On the flip side, the top line could use a small push, it's playing well but not all the way up to its capability every night.

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