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Someone should tell the Habs the game started...

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Old
11-03-2010, 08:56 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Hamrlik is outplaying both of them since his return, too bad he has to play with Spacek who's been pretty much awful this year.

Last night Gorges and Gill had a rough night, Gill got caught on the 1st goal and both got caught flat footed on the second.
You didn't mention the third goal which is understandable because Gorges and Gill were nowhere to be scene because they both got trapped in the offensive zone. LOL Moen did his best.

Gill and Gorges were actually spared a fourth goal against because of Halpern.

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11-03-2010, 09:09 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
So the real Habs have arrived. I said a number of games ago when the team was winning that this team is not good. I was told to shut up.

Well, I'll tell you again...this team is not good:

a) The defense
The D is highly overrated, only 2 of the 6 D-men are able to move the puck past the blue line (Markov, Subban). Only 2 of the 6 are able to get pucks on net. The D generates 0 offensive chances for the forwards. They're also not good defensively... players continue to skate around Hal Gill. They struggle to get the puck out of the zone. Spacek is a turnover machine.
Split up Markov and Subban please.

b)offense
The 2nd line needs a top 6 winger. What a shock! They played much better with AndreiK on the wing. Enough with Moen...either put Pouillot up there or acquire a winger. Management screwed up here big time.

Eller: You have to send him down where he can play big minutes.

c) Powerplay
Markov is great, but he's only one guy. People were acting like Markov would come back and miraculously change the PP. This won't happen until the team either changes philosophy or gets a D-man with a booming shot who can hit the net. Look at the PP the last few years....Souray, Streit, Schneider, Bergeron..they all had one thing in common....booming, accurate shot. Granted, this is Markov's pre-season/training camp so he'll get better, but he needs help.

The bright spots are Price and AndreiK. Imagine if Price was just ordinary this season....Habs would be in the basement.

Don't see this team doing much this year...and don't call me reactionary cuz I've been saying this since the offseason.
lol. you could be right, or you could be wrong. will see at the end of the season I guess after all the games have been played.

I don't see these glaring problems that you are noticing. I see little things that need to be done to make the team better, but the team is not bad. Subban and Markov need to be split up, okay. they tried it, doesn't look good. re-adjust the lines to

markov spacek
hamrlik subban
gill gorges.

that looks alright too me.

It also might change to something like

markov obryne
picard subban
gill gorges

It also might change to something like

picard subban
hamrlik weber
spacek gorges.

we don't know, sometimes people get injured and new chemistry is found changing everything. we don't know what will happen in the next game, so we can't predict whether the team will be good or bad. if we lose markov and subban this team probably wouldn't be that great. With both healthy though I would expect them to really control the play with one of them on the ice. They tried markov subban, it didn't work. I think they both like to control the play in their own end, so I really didn't like this idea to begin with. I think with markov and subban split up, this team is really going to control the game. especially having gorges and gill as a third unit.

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Old
11-03-2010, 09:10 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by number 11 View Post
is this like the latendresse situation, where we keep giving pouliot chances in the top 6, then send him to the 3rd line and people complain he wasn't given a fair chance?

As far as i recall, pouliot played with gionta and gomez for a long time last season, and for the first few games this season. he's proven that he's not cut out for the top 6 right now. i've never seen a professional hockey player fall so much for absolutely no reason.
Well if that were the case Gionta and Gomez shouldnt be on the 2nd line either because both of them have been horrid this year so far

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11-03-2010, 09:15 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
If Eller is on top-6 before December, it means JM has no spine.
Just let the guy own his spot...

Am I wrong to think he is 18th in our scorers?

I like to see hype but 18th... This rant is getting depressing.

Are we serious, I mean 12th among forwards...
Behind Gomez, Gionta, Pouliot, Moen, Darche, Lapierre and Boyd.
Let's bring this guy in first PP and first line.

Anyone wants to bring this guy in top-6 now and ship Gomez to Hamilton should be hanged after military tribunal in Guantanamo.
Ya well you have a playmaker playing 10 minutes with players like Moen, Darche, Laps, Boyd. Wtf were you expecting from him. Stats are great but can we talk about how he is playing. The one game where he got to play with pleks and ak he looked great. He plays with Ak in ot and sets up the goal. He plays with Cammy and plek last night he looks good and you have a more complete top 6. Put this kid on the top 6 and give him a shot. Atleast when hes not putting up points hes not useless like pouliot. He will be the first guy on the forecheck and isn't atrocious defensively. Oh and maybe on the pp, A big body that doesn't have hands of stone, hmmmmmmmm.

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11-03-2010, 09:34 AM
  #105
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First post here but i had to say it.

Gill and Gorges are OUT OF GAS. People didnt seem to realize it because we were winning but its been at least 5-6 games i see them really struggling. Gill makes too many turnovers and it really drags gorges down. Gorges then try to make most of the plays by himself and this pair gets burned. Seriously go watch few games back and the majority of the time played in our zone is when this pair is out. I don't want to blame these guys but it cant stay like that. Put them together for the PK but on 5vs5 they can't stay together.
And by the way Gill should be the last guy to force the play on the opponent's blue line.

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Old
11-03-2010, 09:40 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Nedved View Post
lol. you could be right, or you could be wrong. will see at the end of the season I guess after all the games have been played.

I don't see these glaring problems that you are noticing. I see little things that need to be done to make the team better, but the team is not bad. Subban and Markov need to be split up, okay. they tried it, doesn't look good. re-adjust the lines to

markov spacek
hamrlik subban
gill gorges.

that looks alright too me.

It also might change to something like

markov obryne
picard subban
gill gorges

It also might change to something like

picard subban
hamrlik weber
spacek gorges.

we don't know, sometimes people get injured and new chemistry is found changing everything. we don't know what will happen in the next game, so we can't predict whether the team will be good or bad. if we lose markov and subban this team probably wouldn't be that great. With both healthy though I would expect them to really control the play with one of them on the ice. They tried markov subban, it didn't work. I think they both like to control the play in their own end, so I really didn't like this idea to begin with. I think with markov and subban split up, this team is really going to control the game. especially having gorges and gill as a third unit.
Yea, time to experiment a bit.

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Old
11-03-2010, 09:45 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
So the real Habs have arrived. I said a number of games ago when the team was winning that this team is not good. I was told to shut up.

Well, I'll tell you again...this team is not good:

a) The defense
The D is highly overrated, only 2 of the 6 D-men are able to move the puck past the blue line (Markov, Subban). Only 2 of the 6 are able to get pucks on net. The D generates 0 offensive chances for the forwards. They're also not good defensively... players continue to skate around Hal Gill. They struggle to get the puck out of the zone. Spacek is a turnover machine.
Split up Markov and Subban please.

b)offense
The 2nd line needs a top 6 winger. What a shock! They played much better with AndreiK on the wing. Enough with Moen...either put Pouillot up there or acquire a winger. Management screwed up here big time.

Eller: You have to send him down where he can play big minutes.

c) Powerplay
Markov is great, but he's only one guy. People were acting like Markov would come back and miraculously change the PP. This won't happen until the team either changes philosophy or gets a D-man with a booming shot who can hit the net. Look at the PP the last few years....Souray, Streit, Schneider, Bergeron..they all had one thing in common....booming, accurate shot. Granted, this is Markov's pre-season/training camp so he'll get better, but he needs help.

The bright spots are Price and AndreiK. Imagine if Price was just ordinary this season....Habs would be in the basement.

Don't see this team doing much this year...and don't call me reactionary cuz I've been saying this since the offseason.
Id agree the d has been less than stellar in some games, voracek made them look bad in the first. Gill has to get that puck deep on the first goal not try for a shot. How he didnt get that puck for the second goal is beyond me. He looked like he had it the whole time til it got to him. Spacek continues to try and squeeze pucks through and hit the other teams sticks and almost scored on his own net.

I dunno about sending eller down in the third he looked decent beside pleks and cammalleri. Id give him a full game at that spot before making any judgements.

To mathman's less shots point. They are giving up less shots but its rare any of them are from the outside. Its pretty bad when your goalie is playing well ( the 3rd one tonight he should have positioned better instead of the poke check but at full speed its a split second decision) and they are putting up 3 goals a game on 24 shots. Ill take 30-35 perimeter shots over the 20 quality shots they are giving up now.

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Old
11-03-2010, 10:03 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Perrah View Post
Id agree the d has been less than stellar in some games, voracek made them look bad in the first. Gill has to get that puck deep on the first goal not try for a shot. How he didnt get that puck for the second goal is beyond me. He looked like he had it the whole time til it got to him. Spacek continues to try and squeeze pucks through and hit the other teams sticks and almost scored on his own net.

I dunno about sending eller down in the third he looked decent beside pleks and cammalleri. Id give him a full game at that spot before making any judgements.
Only reason I want Eller sent down is cuz he's not getting top minutes up here. IMO, if he's not on the top 2 lines, you send him down and allow him to play big minutes in the minors. He's got all the tools, you can see it...but playing with unskilled players is going to only hurt his development IMO.

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11-03-2010, 10:14 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Only reason I want Eller sent down is cuz he's not getting top minutes up here. IMO, if he's not on the top 2 lines, you send him down and allow him to play big minutes in the minors. He's got all the tools, you can see it...but playing with unskilled players is going to only hurt his development IMO.
You have to question why he was acquired if we knew he could not play C in the top 6.

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11-03-2010, 10:20 AM
  #110
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You have to question why he was acquired if we knew he could not play C in the top 6.
maybe its called letting the kid develope. Hes played his 17th game in the nhl, show some patience maybe?

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11-03-2010, 10:24 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
You have to question why he was acquired if we knew he could not play C in the top 6.
Yup, and I questioned the move the day it was made. I like Eller, but we could have acquired a top 6, young, winger for Halak. Looking at how well Halak's playing you just have to .

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maybe its called letting the kid develope. Hes played his 17th game in the nhl, show some patience maybe?
True...which is why they shouldn't have sold him as being ready NOW for the NHL. I think if they said he was a year away...people would be much more understanding and Eller would have less pressure.

But going back to the trade. Coming off of last season...AndreiK and Pouillot were very poor. You had 2 centers (Pleks & Gomez). Say what you want, Gomez isn't going anywhere for a while...and a need for a top 6 winger....hell, maybe even 2. Why then do you go and acquire a centerman? You acquire players to fill NEEDS.

I'd have this same opinion if Eller had 13 points right now.... Look at his game, he's a center through and through. He plays completely different and is much better as a centerman. So even if Gauthier thought he could use him as a winger....that's still a dumb idea.

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11-03-2010, 10:29 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Yup, and I questioned the move the day it was made. I like Eller, but we could have acquired a top 6, young, winger for Halak. Looking at how well Halak's playing you just have to .
if we cudda, we wudda. How many differnt ways and times do you have to be told this, goalies dont have much value on the market, especially unproven goalies. yes Halak is unproven, half a season and one good playoff run does qualify you as proven. Didnt we have this convo like a million times this summer, why must you insist on bringing it up again

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11-03-2010, 10:29 AM
  #113
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Saw the game, I thought Price was the only guy on the team that had a good game.......even Pleks line seemed to have a bad night...

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11-03-2010, 10:59 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Saw the game, I thought Price was the only guy on the team that had a good game.......even Pleks line seemed to have a bad night...
This + if it wasn't for Price it would have been a 8-0 BLOW OUT !!!

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11-03-2010, 11:09 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by number 11 View Post
is this like the latendresse situation, where we keep giving pouliot chances in the top 6, then send him to the 3rd line and people complain he wasn't given a fair chance?

As far as i recall, pouliot played with gionta and gomez for a long time last season, and for the first few games this season. he's proven that he's not cut out for the top 6 right now. i've never seen a professional hockey player fall so much for absolutely no reason.
Problem is that people think we're better than we actually are....So Pouliot is not cut out for a top 6....maybe....but on STRONGER TEAMS. This is the Habs we're talking about here. Where Moen and Pyatt have had their turn on the 2nd line....How many teams would have those players in their top 6? Pouliot or Eller are the best solutions 'cause that's ALL WE'VE GOT.

Don't get me started with Latendresse again...geez....'cause he had SOOOOO many chances in the top 6....It has nothing to do with Lats. Pouliot did have WAY more chances than Lats to succeed and didn't last year. True. But again, it comes down to what we have. If you have better than Pouliot, so be it. But we DO NOT.

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Old
11-03-2010, 11:14 AM
  #116
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Never seen so many shots miss the net in my life. Both teams. Guys were missing from 5 feet out. That's part of the game y'know, shooting with accuracy. Better have a weak shot on net than a laser that misses.

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11-03-2010, 11:16 AM
  #117
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if we cudda, we wudda. How many differnt ways and times do you have to be told this, goalies dont have much value on the market, especially unproven goalies. yes Halak is unproven, half a season and one good playoff run does qualify you as proven. Didnt we have this convo like a million times this summer, why must you insist on bringing it up again
If so, then sign Halak, run the 2 goalies again, or trade Price, who, despite how unproven he also was, would have gotten us a better return based on EVERY expert out there.

And yet, as unproven Halak was, while it might not solution our needs right now, EVERYBODY agrees that we got a gem in Eller. From the St-Louis management to the rest of the league. For the future, it should pay off. If there wasn't a market, how did we succeed in getting a guy like Eller anyway? It's not too far fetched to think that Price would have gotten us a little more based on everything we see in Price right now and if we see it, they see it as well. Based on what he has done already. Based on his skillset and size etc.....That would have been wise management. Add the fact that while he's answering it right now, it will not take a whole lot before people go back hating Price again especially if Halak continue his ride and we don't....

You will lose any trade you'll make when it starts by knowing right from the start that you will not get the value it deserved. If you are right, we made a trade knowing there's no market for it EVEN THOUGH we know he's much better even for us than the return we would eventually get.....I have no idea why we keep doing that......

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11-03-2010, 11:38 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
If so, then sign Halak, run the 2 goalies again, or trade Price, who, despite how unproven he also was, would have gotten us a better return based on EVERY expert out thereAnd yet, as unproven Halak was, while it might not solution our needs right now, EVERYBODY agrees that we got a gem in Eller. From the St-Louis management to the rest of the league. For the future, it should pay off. If there wasn't a market, how did we succeed in getting a guy like Eller anyway? It's not too far fetched to think that Price would have gotten us a little more based on everything we see in Price right now and if we see it, they see it as well. Based on what he has done already. Based on his skillset and size etc.....That would have been wise management. Add the fact that while he's answering it right now, it will not take a whole lot before people go back hating Price again especially if Halak continue his ride and we don't....

You will lose any trade you'll make when it starts by knowing right from the start that you will not get the value it deserved. If you are right, we made a trade knowing there's no market for it EVEN THOUGH we know he's much better even for us than the return we would eventually get.....I have no idea why we keep doing that......
I stopped reading there. A) We all know the 1a 1b goalie was not gonna happen, neither Price nor Halak wanted that. B) We would not have had enough cap space to sign both goalies and Pleks. C) Mtl had no intentions of ever trading Price. They as an organization are smart enough not trade away a 22 year old( at the time) goalie who's done fairly well so far in his first 3 seasons, a thoroughbread who has great potential.

I dont get why some people were shocked when Halak got traded. It was so obvious, i remember literally wanting to bet my house with someone that Halak would be the one to be traded. Anyways all this to say, deep down you, Whitesnake, of all people should know and understand why Mtl didnt keep both goalies and why the choice was made to keep Price, dont play dumb.

Anyways why are we talking about this again?... ahhhhh its so annoying. Halak is not here anymore. Im done talking about this. Reply what you want, im done with this Price vs Halak ********!

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11-03-2010, 12:00 PM
  #119
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if we cudda, we wudda. How many differnt ways and times do you have to be told this, goalies dont have much value on the market, especially unproven goalies. yes Halak is unproven, half a season and one good playoff run does qualify you as proven. Didnt we have this convo like a million times this summer, why must you insist on bringing it up again
You think Eller was the best value out there? Please, St.Louis offered WINGERS for Halak.

Hell, no one even knew which goalie was on the trade block. Gauthier always wanted Eller and wouldn't take anyone else.

So please, stop acting like Eller was the best option to plug a top 6 winger hole.

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11-03-2010, 12:11 PM
  #120
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Loved that we dressed Boyd again. That -2 was really more useful than Pyatt killing penalties. :

And where the hell is Picard? +7 and thrown in the pressbox. Martin is not very smart.

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11-03-2010, 12:13 PM
  #121
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And where the hell is Picard? +7 and thrown in the pressbox. Martin is not very smart.
Maybe he's wishing for an injury to spacek

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11-03-2010, 12:16 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Saw the game, I thought Price was the only guy on the team that had a good game.......even Pleks line seemed to have a bad night...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
This + if it wasn't for Price it would have been a 8-0 BLOW OUT !!!
Like most posters, I tought Price played well overall, but I will go against the grain and say that I really didn't like the 2nd and third goals he let in. He was three or four feet out of position on both as a result of over-committing, and I noticed that kind of positioning issue on a few of the non-goals as well.

Still a pretty good game for him, but I want to see those problems worked out.

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11-03-2010, 12:22 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by saints96 View Post
if we cudda, we wudda. How many differnt ways and times do you have to be told this, goalies dont have much value on the market, especially unproven goalies. yes Halak is unproven, half a season and one good playoff run does qualify you as proven. Didnt we have this convo like a million times this summer, why must you insist on bringing it up again
John Davidson must know one or two things about goalies....

How come did he sign him on a long term contract with that type of money, ...if Halak was so ''unproven'' ?

Tell me !

Eller will be good down the line (1-2-3 years ???)

But the Habs needed a ''proven top six winger'', NOW !

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11-03-2010, 12:23 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
Never seen so many shots miss the net in my life. Both teams. Guys were missing from 5 feet out. That's part of the game y'know, shooting with accuracy. Better have a weak shot on net than a laser that misses.
I wonder if the ice was bad. Guys (esp. ours) seemed to be reacting a second late on a lot of plays. Just a theory; no idea, really.

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11-03-2010, 01:02 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Almost, but replace Pouliot by Eller.

Pouliot is not good enough for top 6.
You can honestly say that when Pouliot is outplaying Gomez and Gionta and Eller hasn't done anything yet? Eller hasn't even approached Darche, much less Pouliot, since the beginning of the season. He's being given an opportunity to play despite a lack of production. No thank you. Maybe next year.

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