Prospect Info: HF - Ottawa ranked 16th in organization rankings

[Hale The Villain]

Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan

That mez deal was not that bad.

For us it was great. Kuba is better than Meszaros in every way, Picard was a depth defenseman and we got a free 1st out of it.

[Kellogs]

Originally Posted by Minister of Offence

New GM's bring in their own people. We got Anders Forsberg because of a connection with Bryan Murray. In terms of hiring a new GM/scouting your often just getting the GM and his connections.

Tim Murray's the only guy I could see keeping the scout team together but with Forsberg gone it's hard to say how good our scout team really is. We've relied pretty hard on Swedes since Murray took over, and for good reason IMO.

That may be true, but I think the point I'm trying to make is that people in these sort of topics always point to Muckler who left the cupboard bare because of poor drafting, but seemingly ignore how Murray has had a poor performance with other parts of a gm's duties. What I want is a gm who can do both reasonably well.

[Minister of Offence]

Originally Posted by Kellogs

That may be true, but I think the point I'm trying to make is that people in these sort of topics always point to Muckler who left the cupboard bare because of poor drafting, but seemingly ignore how Murray has had a poor performance with other parts of a gm's duties. What I want is a gm who can do both reasonably well.

There really isn't a complete right or wrong when it comes to knowledgeable and rationale people arguing Murray vs Muckler. I just think the strengths we got out of Murray were the crucial ones given the state of the franchise when he took over. The demise of the team was not his fault...the team would probably have been worse off without Kovalev because without him we had a big hole, and to think losing a 1st rounder for Campoli contributed to our demise is rediculous. I'm not accusing you of thinking any of this either.

We got Murray when we needed him, that's why I defend him.

[Xspyrit]

Originally Posted by Minister of Offence

There really isn't a complete right or wrong when it comes to knowledgeable and rationale people arguing Murray vs Muckler. I just think the strengths we got out of Murray were the crucial ones given the state of the franchise when he took over. The demise of the team was not his fault...the team would probably have been worse off without Kovalev because without him we had a big hole, and to think losing a 1st rounder for Campoli contributed to our demise is rediculous. I'm not accusing you of thinking any of this either.

We got Murray when we needed him, that's why I defend him.

Same

There is a lot of misconception on this board.

For example, Campoli trade is what kills us actually. Well, the guy is a very honest player, saves goals on daily basis (2 tonight), contribute to the puck movement and is able to score/create offense, all that for very cheap (mostly the last 2 years). Of course, we gave up a bit too much for him but it was a pick Murray STOLE away in the first place.

The Leclaire trade didn't turn as well as expected but Murray got a 2nd round pick out of it and made something with it, picking up Robin Lehner which is IMO the best goalie prospect we ever had. Of course, we all liked Vermette but there was no place for him. If we kept him, we would have not signed Fisher and would have let him walk

The Kovalev signing is not as great as expected but the guy supported our offense (47 points and +7 in his first 60 games last year) while key players (Alfie, Michalek, Spezza) were injured.

The Gonchar signing will be great no matter what (baring injuries but you can't control that), just the mentoring effect is huge.

The 2nd rounders Murray "gave away" for Sutton and Cullen were previously acquired by him (1 in the Heatley deal) and the other one he signed Bobby Butler to offset it.

Of course, the Heatley deal was bad but Michalek is still a good player. Nothing else Murray could have done with this ****** situation.

Overall, Murray hasn't done an excellent job (that would mean we would still compete with the Wings for the President trophy) but given the situation he was in, he has done a good job and the most important thing is that he is preparing this team for the future, a future that we didn't have a few years ago.

Only things I'm not happy with Murray was his coaching hirings. Clouston is fine, but he needs to gain experience obviously.

[JimmyStart*]

Originally Posted by trentmccleary

When acquiring rentals players, a certain level of future loss is assuemd and even planned on. Campoli was acquired with that 1st and that is all.



Ranger fan? ... Do you realize how crazy your prospect listings look?

Kreider (19 yo), 1st-19, '09
Did dick all in college last year and even less so far this year. Scored 6 goals in 7 games at the WJC's like a tonne of other forgettable prospects have done. They gave him an 8.5C, probably because he'll be a 1st liner for sure and probably a Top-20 scorer every year .

We gave Silfverberg a 6.5C for some reason and he's been more impressive in a pro league.

Grachev (20 yo), (3rd-75, '08). 8.0B = A near-certain 1st liner. Scored 80 points in 60 games in an OHL season with Cody Hodgson & Matt Duchene. Has done nothing of note anywhere else, ever.

Hoffman is listed as a 7.0D. He won the QMJHL MVP and has more than 1 good CHL season under his belt.

D.Stepan (20 yo), (2nd-51, '08). 8.0B. Great numbers for a young college player and great in the WJC's. Hallelujah, a Ranger's prospect who may come close to reaching the grade they gave him. I'd probably still drop him down to 7.0B or 7.5B because it's still so close to his draft and he was a 2nd rounder.

We gave Wiercioch a 7.5C, as a near PPG, 6'4 D-man dominating college hockey.

Seems fine to me. Certainly not a bunch of 5th and 6th rounders who have done nothing as was indicated in the post I responded to. Sounds like your mad the writers didn't rank your guys higher. Submit a resume and do the job HF isn't doing then

[theyellowsub]

Originally Posted by deriik2020

Seems fine to me. Certainly not a bunch of 5th and 6th rounders who have done nothing as was indicated in the post I responded to. Sounds like your mad the writers didn't rank your guys higher. Submit a resume and do the job HF isn't doing then

What does HF currently pay an hour?

[D0C]

Originally Posted by Xspyrit

Same

There is a lot of misconception on this board.

For example, Campoli trade is what kills us actually. Well, the guy is a very honest player, saves goals on daily basis (2 tonight), contribute to the puck movement and is able to score/create offense, all that for very cheap (mostly the last 2 years). Of course, we gave up a bit too much for him but it was a pick Murray STOLE away in the first place.

The Leclaire trade didn't turn as well as expected but Murray got a 2nd round pick out of it and made something with it, picking up Robin Lehner which is IMO the best goalie prospect we ever had. Of course, we all liked Vermette but there was no place for him. If we kept him, we would have not signed Fisher and would have let him walk

The Kovalev signing is not as great as expected but the guy supported our offense (47 points and +7 in his first 60 games last year) while key players (Alfie, Michalek, Spezza) were injured.

The Gonchar signing will be great no matter what (baring injuries but you can't control that), just the mentoring effect is huge.

The 2nd rounders Murray "gave away" for Sutton and Cullen were previously acquired by him (1 in the Heatley deal) and the other one he signed Bobby Butler to offset it.

Of course, the Heatley deal was bad but Michalek is still a good player. Nothing else Murray could have done with this ****** situation.

Overall, Murray hasn't done an excellent job (that would mean we would still compete with the Wings for the President trophy) but given the situation he was in, he has done a good job and the most important thing is that he is preparing this team for the future, a future that we didn't have a few years ago.

Only things I'm not happy with Murray was his coaching hirings. Clouston is fine, but he needs to gain experience obviously.

It has always been about perception! It just depends on how you look at it.

I'm more of a Murray half full than half empty kinda guy.

[danishh]

Originally Posted by SensFan2010

What do you think about Wiercioch + for Jordan Schroeder? I think that would be pretty good trade for both teams. We need forward prospects and Vancouver could use dman prospect with top-pairing potential.

i'd rather not target midget forwards that have skill but play fairly soft. The goal is to build a team that can win in the playoffs, and while a player like schroeder could help us get out of the bundle of mediocrity in the east if he pans out, he's never going to take us far in the playoffs once the reffing changes.

[trentmccleary]

Originally Posted by deriik2020

Seems fine to me. Certainly not a bunch of 5th and 6th rounders who have done nothing as was indicated in the post I responded to. Sounds like your mad the writers didn't rank your guys higher. Submit a resume and do the job HF isn't doing then

No, I think the Sens ratings are fairly realistic. The problem is that the Ranger's prospects are all ranked as if they were recent Top-5 overall picks in NHL drafts and are all future franchise players... despite the fact that reality is getting in the way and none of them are doing well enough to prove it.

[kyle747]

I have no problem with Ottawa at 16 - but seeing the leafs up there at 6 makes me laugh out loud.