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Derek Boogaard Pro and Con

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Old
11-03-2010, 01:59 AM
  #51
RangerFan10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
but you are wrong
just this conference alone teams dress Godard Gillies Shelley Orr thornton rupp king so that theory is off
I think Philly probably finds Shelley and his contract a similar frustration as Boogard here. Other than Shelley and Orr, the others you've listed are pretty disposable. Which is the real problem here - Boogard gets paid like he is more than a heavyweight fighter, like he brings something else to the table, when the fact of the matter is he is far from that.

I have no problem with having a heavyweight, I do have a problem with a heavyweight that gets a 4 year contract (which is my biggest problem with the contract, not so much the overpayment) when clearly there are cheaper options that won't become a distraction because of their contract if they sit for extended time. Clearly the role of a heavyweight enforcer is becoming less and less as time goes by. Of the guys you listed, how many of them do you really think their team would miss that much? Thornton and Orr are probably the only guys on that list that fans of their respective teams actually give a damn about.

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11-03-2010, 02:02 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Black Tank View Post
And here we go again...Let's dress White or some other loser for the three mins per night on he fourth line until one of our rivals goes nuts on us and then after the fact put Boogaard back in...

Though I agree that he needs to be much more aggressive than what he's shown so far. Taking a run at Carcillo and frightening him ala Orr would go a long way in getting Boogaard back into my good graces.
I think Carcillo has made it pretty clear that he doesn't care who's in the lineup, he's going to do whatever he does, and I'm not talking about the Gaborik incident as I know there was no enforcer dressed that game.

Do you think Sean Avery would hold back just because Orr was in the lineup against Toronto? Oh wait, he already proved he wouldn't...just ask Mike Komisarek.

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11-03-2010, 02:03 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Guys Please if I can teach you anything about being a enforcer do not compare Prust to Boogaard. Prust is a hockey player that is a grinder and banger and in no way shape or form a heavyweight. This is not a bad thing as Prust is my favorite ranger and reminds me a lot of Kris King. Boogy equals fat cat lazy slob
Prust is still a modern day enforcer. The guy was top 3 in fighting majors if not first in fighting majors last season if I recall correctly. How exactly can you not be considered an enforcer with those numbers?

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11-03-2010, 02:04 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SomE View Post
He would have gotten similar money elsewhere but less years.
I don't really think that's true.

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11-03-2010, 02:06 AM
  #55
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I just wish someone would explain to me why a guy like Steve McIntyre, who makes close to the league minimum and could probably be sent back and forth to the AHL without getting claimed on waivers, isn't just as good of an option as Boogaard is with his outrageous contract.

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Old
11-03-2010, 02:06 AM
  #56
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I was really disappointed they couldn't sign Shelley- an above average middleweight who by all accounts is a character guy and a leader in the room. Again, Slats signs the biggest scariest dude available to fill the enforcer role.

I felt like it was a slap in the face to the organization to show up in the shape he was in. Hadn't he even heard about Tort's thing for conditioning? Also, in the few fights he has had this season, he hasn't won one of them. If you are going to be paid to be an enforcer/ deterrent- enforce, deter! Do something- ANYTHING frankenstein!

In an early season that is a feel good story for a team missing it's franchise forward, Boogard has been a non-starter.

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11-03-2010, 02:06 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Prust is still a modern day enforcer. The guy was top 3 in fighting majors if not first in fighting majors last season if I recall correctly. How exactly can you not be considered an enforcer with those numbers?
I think he was 2nd to Konopka.

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Old
11-03-2010, 02:08 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by dynamoovechkin View Post
I was really disappointed they couldn't sign Shelley- an above average middleweight who by all accounts is a character guy and a leader in the room. Again, Slats signs the biggest scariest dude available to fill the enforcer role.

I felt like it was a slap in the face to the organization to show up in the shape he was in. Hadn't he even heard about Tort's thing for conditioning? Also, in the few fights he has had this season, he hasn't won one of them. If you are going to be paid to be an enforcer/ deterrent- enforce, deter! Do something- ANYTHING frankenstein!

In an early season that is a feel good story for a team missing it's franchise forward, Boogard has been a non-starter.
He showed up in much better shape then he was in last season in Minnesota. He lost close to 25 lbs from the time he signed the contract and training camp started. 270 to about 245-250. That is a big drop. Is he fully where the Rangers want him to be? Probably not, but he definitely started losing the weight.

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11-03-2010, 10:02 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
Prust is still a modern day enforcer. The guy was top 3 in fighting majors if not first in fighting majors last season if I recall correctly. How exactly can you not be considered an enforcer with those numbers?
Because there is a difference between a enforcer and a Grinder. Prust is a fantastic grinder/banger in the mold of a Kris King. the guy has 25 major last season but he isn't a guy that will hang with Godard or King. He is perfect for the Carcillios of the world but he isn't a heavyweight. I started this thread saying boogy is failing at his job.

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11-03-2010, 03:35 PM
  #60
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Pro: He punches people in the face really, really hard.
Con: I don't want say, cause he punches people in the face really, really hard.

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11-03-2010, 03:41 PM
  #61
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Besides scoring, which enforcers aren't well at to begin with, the Con is Tortorella not being able to put him out when he needs to be out. Completely understandable, as of late.

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11-03-2010, 04:22 PM
  #62
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Pro: He punches people in the face really, really hard.
Con: I don't want say, cause he punches people in the face really, really hard.
ok...i really loled hard on this one

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Old
11-03-2010, 04:30 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Because there is a difference between a enforcer and a Grinder. Prust is a fantastic grinder/banger in the mold of a Kris King. the guy has 25 major last season but he isn't a guy that will hang with Godard or King. He is perfect for the Carcillios of the world but he isn't a heavyweight. I started this thread saying boogy is failing at his job.
I guess what I don't see is why he would need to hang with them.

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11-03-2010, 04:59 PM
  #64
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Prust has shown that he's much more than a fighter. He's a tough, gritty guy who knows how to forecheck and actually play hockey- while includes throwing down the gloves when necessary.

Boogaard is here solely to fight, and he has not done his job effectively. I think this is what Dagoon is getting at, and i'm pretty sure we all agree.

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Old
11-03-2010, 06:30 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
The point is...he is here for 4 years...Torts is to blame for his current status...I was at the Atlanta game and Torts never put him out there when Bolton was on the ice...

Everyone wants Rozy to be loved but we are ready to send this guy to hell after 10 games, with 3 minutes a game.

When the Rangers claimed Orr off waivers from Boston...everyone questioned the move and said he was the worst player in hockey...now, Orr is a god and Boogey is the worst player in hockey...every team in the east has a goon...u take him out of the lineup against the Islanders, Flyers and the like and watch what happens.

White, Drury and Prospal are the ones with no place on this team.
first of all i cant beleive there are 3 pages to a thread which insinuates there is a PRO to signing boogard.

as far as taking him out of the lineup against ANY TEAM the only thing that will happen is the rangers having a better chance to win the game. Boogard isnt scaring anyone, he's played against the pile's they ran hank and started all sorts of nonsense in pregame, made absolutely no difference what so ever. Give me a skill player over that incredibly slow and ineffective bag o knuckles any day of the week and hopefully twice THIS sunday!

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11-03-2010, 07:35 PM
  #66
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My main issue with Boogaard is his cap hit. Though its not his fault Sather is a moron. Paying 1.625 per year for Boogaard is a waste. I can understand Sather wanting an enforcer a lot of teams feel like they still need one around. Personally I feel like its a dying position. They could of got MacIntyre or McGrattan for 500k. I dont understand with our cap issues paying that much money for Boogey. It all started because of dumbass Burke giving Orr 1 million per. IMO those players are worth 500-600k.

You saw what he did to Neil in the preseason and he had a late hit in the game against Boston on Stuart that was intentional. He'll do his job for the most part as an enforcer but I dont know if Torts will like him taking those kind of penalties. That could be an issue. Because that is the only way he can retaliate against players who aren't going to fight him.

Torts keeps talking about working on his conditioning. Hopefully in the summer he can also improve his skating a little bit. Because if he could ever increase his foot speed a little he could be much more valuable just skating around running over players.

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11-03-2010, 07:58 PM
  #67
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Like Rosival, Eminger, Prucha, Drury etc etc etc...

There will be a divide on views of a player, and each side will stand their ground on their opinion. That's all most of these threads are about, opinions.

I fully see what Dagoon is saying and I hope Boogey turns the ship around. The season is still young.

I'm a person who likes having an enforcer on a team, and for the handful of times he really lays waste with his knuckles to prove a point to the opposition and have the rest of the blue bunch playing invincible because of it - he's earned his contract to me. The other nights where he's just an intimidating factor - I appreciate that presence.

I've grown tired of getting pushed around in games in the last couple of years, and Boogey along with Prust is a great tandem to have. When the game gets rough, we have answers, and they're ones most if not all want to mess with.

I think he done well to drop the weight coming into camp, he's actually had a couple of scoring opportunities. The camp and system must be an absolute culture shock to him. I hope he really proves himself in the coming games. I've seen Torts patting him on the back after a shift or 2 and barking encouragement at him.

I haven't given up on him.

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Old
11-03-2010, 08:11 PM
  #68
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I have seen Boogaard make some good plays with the puck so far this year he may not be very good but he has not really been that bad on the puck when he is on the ice

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11-03-2010, 08:42 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Because there is a difference between a enforcer and a Grinder. Prust is a fantastic grinder/banger in the mold of a Kris King. the guy has 25 major last season but he isn't a guy that will hang with Godard or King. He is perfect for the Carcillios of the world but he isn't a heavyweight. I started this thread saying boogy is failing at his job.
In reality, what teams need is the answer to the Carcillos of the world. It's the golden age of the a-hole grinder. Love it, hate it, it's the kinder, gentler, more cheap-shot laden NHL that Bettman wanted, so you can get with the times or watch your modern day competitors walk on by.

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11-04-2010, 08:43 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
In reality, what teams need is the answer to the Carcillos of the world. It's the golden age of the a-hole grinder. Love it, hate it, it's the kinder, gentler, more cheap-shot laden NHL that Bettman wanted, so you can get with the times or watch your modern day competitors walk on by.
what he said...nailed it!

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11-04-2010, 09:16 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
In reality, what teams need is the answer to the Carcillos of the world. It's the golden age of the a-hole grinder. Love it, hate it, it's the kinder, gentler, more cheap-shot laden NHL that Bettman wanted, so you can get with the times or watch your modern day competitors walk on by.
and there it is

theres been a fundamental shift in the entire culture of the NHL

if you cheap shotted gretzky in 1987 someone was going to fight you (and probablly kick your ass) and you had no say in the matter

now players are free to run around like a d-bag, elect not to fight, and walk away without shame, embarrasment, or ridicule

its pathetic, but it is what it is....and nowadays a team will lose much more by having a slow one-dimensional player on the ice than they gain when he occasionally puts a fist in another worthless enforcer's face

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11-04-2010, 11:20 AM
  #72
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I want hard hits over fights. I don't want to see him head hunting but I want people to know if you're pushing your presence in the crease or pushing around our skilled forwards you'll have to watch your back because you have a giant nose heading your way.

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11-04-2010, 11:32 AM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
In reality, what teams need is the answer to the Carcillos of the world. It's the golden age of the a-hole grinder. Love it, hate it, it's the kinder, gentler, more cheap-shot laden NHL that Bettman wanted, so you can get with the times or watch your modern day competitors walk on by.
Jeez MJ, that's so well put. And what I've struggled to put into words.

I believe Carcillo-Prust scrap that comes from the heat of the competition does more to change a game or lift a team than a seemingly staged goon-on-goon fight.

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11-04-2010, 11:35 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Jeez MJ, that's so well put. And what I've struggled to put into words.

I believe Carcillo-Prust scrap that comes from the heat of the competition does more to change a game or lift a team than a seemingly staged goon-on-goon fight.
I agree with the point made but disagree with Carcillio. He is a punk thug that likes to pick on lesser guys that he can bully and not worry about. Watch Orr chase him all over and him back down pretty funny stuff

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11-04-2010, 11:36 AM
  #75
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Originally Posted by ZacUSNYR View Post
I want hard hits over fights. I don't want to see him head hunting but I want people to know if you're pushing your presence in the crease or pushing around our skilled forwards you'll have to watch your back because you have a giant nose heading your way.
If you look back at some of the top enforcers of the past, they could take a regular shift and be productive. Guys like Probert, Tocchet, Domi, Kocur and Simon all had seasons where they put up more than respectable numbers. They could also play which mean they had the skating ability to hang with the play and make big hits.

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