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Someone should tell the Habs the game started...

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Old
11-03-2010, 07:10 PM
  #176
sampollock
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a trade is coming, and PG will get a forward

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11-03-2010, 07:21 PM
  #177
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
So why did teams act like they had no idea the goalies were on the block? And it was McKenzie who said he talked to GM's that had no idea Halak was available.

Plus, if you want to trade a player you contact teams....you don't just wait for a team to contact you. That's like putting your resume on workopolis and expecting employers to call you rather than being pro-active and going to the employers yourself.

Only on this forum is wanting one player over another complaining.
It's not at all like putting your CV on workopolis buddy. Halak is not looking for a job elsewhere, I'm sure he would have agreed to be Mtl's #1 keeper. Just like Price did. Neither goalie had to sell themselves to other teams.

Let's use that everyday work example of yours. Say you're the owner of a company that need a new project leader (St.Louis and other teams looking for a Goalie) and you know one of your competitors (Mtl) might have a GREAT one to spare..Price or Halak. Don't you think that you should call to see if a deal can be reached??
But of course, you don't see it that way. You're not happy about the trade and think we could have gotten more therefore your conclusion is that Gauthier wasn't proactive enough.

I don't need Bob McKenzie or any GM across the NHL to tell me Halak and Price were available or not. It was OBVIOUS. It's like Kessel in Boston. You knew the Bruins had no cap room for him and unless they created a lot of space, he'd likely be gone. So, like any average intelligent man would do, you pick up the phone and call to see what's happening which is what Burke did. Same exact scenario with our keepers.
Really, you can drop this whole thing. Gauthier didn't even have to send a league wide email telling his peers that our goalies were available. Any hockey fan with half a brain could figure that one out.

Also, it's not because you wanted a different player that Gauthier made a bad trade. You can never judge a trade a few months after it. It takes years. Eller can become a top line player, if Price sucks, people will say this trade was a bad one.
For now, it's a decent trade. Price is playing great, so is Halak, and Eller has shown some good things.

You are not the voice of reason (neither am I or anybody else here), only the players will determine whether this trade was a good or bad one, and we'll need a few years before knowing that for sure.

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Old
11-03-2010, 07:48 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Even if they really wanted a proven top 6 winger, they have no room to fit one on the team. The problem right now is not a top 6 winger missing, it's Gomez and Gionta not clicking and the PP being awful. Let's work on those issues before panicking about something else.



Eller is just completing his first full month in the NHL, I think in time he'll be a strong contributor. He's played both center and wing and looks more comfortable at center.
???? You have a rather short memory. A.K and Pouliot were HUGE question marks after the playoffs. Nowhere to fit a top six winger. You're kidding yourself. We lost a very valuable asset to acquire an UNPROVEN young centre who MIGHT be good and PRODUCTIVE maybe next year, maybe the year after. In the modern NHL, you have to win NOW. I don't mean winning 7 games out of ten at the begoinning of the season. I mean the real wins at the end.

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Old
11-03-2010, 07:51 PM
  #179
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Since Markov is back in the lineup: 0-2 record

Since Picard is out of the line up: 0-2 record...

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Old
11-03-2010, 07:55 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Wasn't it the 25th pick overall,? Calgary picked Greg Nemisz with it if I'm not mistaken. Tanguay was picked up because Gainey mentioned how he wanted to improve 5 on 5 scoring. Tanguay and Lang excelled in this area the previous year. I'm not saying it was or wasn't a good pickup, but Montreal's offense came primarily from one line the previous year. They also lived by their PP. We needed top 6 players and Gainey got two.

It was by no means a bad trade considering that most contenders give up assets to acquire what they need and there was a huge consensus that Montreal would be a contender. I'm sure had Gainey done nothing, people would still complained.

I still don't see how we got fleeced(not referring to you, but reffering to JayBee) for trading for Tanguay as it is the standard trade for pieces you need to become a contender. It didn't work out, but Tanguay wasn't the only problem, the entire team crapped the bed that year. Gainey did what he needed to do, he got two top 6 forwards for secondary scoring. We needed that as much as we needed toughness. It didn't work out and he moved on. You can't predict how your moves will pan out. He had clear intentions and justifiable intentions for acquiring Tanguay. Everyone was excited about acquiring Tanguay, only after the season ended did people complain. But he along with Kovalev and Koivu helped squeeze into the playoffs when they had that crazy pointstreak in their final 15 games.
I know, I pretty much agree. I was for the trade at the time, but figured he was in the plans long term. I didn't think he was all that bad while he was here either, but Gainey seemed to get on a kick of trading picks for players and then letting the players walk, along with letting our future UFA dman go for nothing. Not always his fault, but overall it seemed like poor managing of assets to me. I believe Tanguay was a 1st and a 2nd, which is kinda steep for one year, but certainly no fleecing.

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Old
11-03-2010, 07:58 PM
  #181
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Gainey gaffes:

1. Ribeiro trade (A massive gaffe)
2. Tanguay trade (lost a 1st round pick for a guy who was too afraid to play in the plyaoffs)
3. Spacek signing
4. Trading Huet away and letting Price handle the load
5. Letting Streit walk
6. Letting Souray walk for nothing (had high trade value and everyone knew he wasn't going to get signed)
7. Not looking too good on the Latendresse trade either.

That's just off the top of my head. Come in here and make excuses for him.

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11-03-2010, 07:59 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by sampollock View Post
a trade is coming, and PG will get a forward
Eck ?

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11-03-2010, 08:09 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Gainey gaffes:

1. Ribeiro trade (A massive gaffe)
2. Tanguay trade (lost a 1st round pick for a guy who was too afraid to play in the plyaoffs)
3. Spacek signing
4. Trading Huet away and letting Price handle the load
5. Letting Streit walk
6. Letting Souray walk for nothing (had high trade value and everyone knew he wasn't going to get signed)
7. Not looking too good on the Latendresse trade either.

That's just off the top of my head. Come in here and make excuses for him.
Off your list the only gaffe I see was letting Streit walk. Every other move made sense at the time they were made.

But your list is funny. Some impending UFAs shouldn't have been traded (rather than getting something in return) and some we should have traded since they ended up walking. Catch-22 with that reasoning.

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11-03-2010, 08:15 PM
  #184
Andy
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You spoke about being fleeced, so let's analyze.
Quote:
1. Ribeiro trade (A massive gaffe)
Yes, Gainey admitted this
Quote:
2. Tanguay trade (lost a 1st round pick for a guy who was too afraid to play in the plyaoffs[B])
It was a late first round pick and Tanguay was something we needed Gainey could not predict that he would not play in he playoffs. Tanguay, for the games he did play in the regular season was really effective, I don't see it as fleecing. He was a need and Gainey gave fair value for the type of player he was at the time.
Quote:
3. Spacek signing
Not a trade, therefore it cannot be something where Gainey was fleeced
Quote:
4. Trading Huet away and letting Price handle the load Price performed well the rest of that season and the entire first round of that playoffs.
The second we got for Huet also allowed us to acquire Lang. I still don't understand how this was a "fleece". Also you complain about letting Souray and Streit walk for nothing, but then complain when we traded an impending UFA. Shows that some people will never be happy.
Quote:
5. Letting Streit walk
Not a trade
Quote:
6. Letting Souray walk for nothing (had high trade value and everyone knew he wasn't going to get signed)
Not a trade
Quote:
7. Not looking too good on the Latendresse trade either.
Still yet to be determined, I liked Latendresse, hated his attitude and Ethic, it seems to have followed him to Minnesotta as his coached called him out.




First you said we get fleeced every 4 out of 5 deals, not you talk about Gaffes. You used the fleecing excuse to explain why you don't give our GM the benefit of the doubt.

Here's some trades off the top of my head that were good.

1. Kovalev trade. Was a great trade
2. The Rivet trade. Great trade.
3. Garon for Bonk and Huet. Very Good trade, both players filled their roles perfectly, much more than Garon could ever have.
4. 2nd round pick for Lang

The only really clear cut bad one was Ribiero.

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Old
11-03-2010, 09:08 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
Off your list the only gaffe I see was letting Streit walk. Every other move made sense at the time they were made.

But your list is funny. Some impending UFAs shouldn't have been traded (rather than getting something in return) and some we should have traded since they ended up walking. Catch-22 with that reasoning.
That's your opinion. I'd give Gainey a C as a GM. I'm sure some of you would give him an A.

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11-03-2010, 09:10 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
You spoke about being fleeced, so let's analyze.

Yes, Gainey admitted this


It was a late first round pick and Tanguay was something we needed Gainey could not predict that he would not play in he playoffs. Tanguay, for the games he did play in the regular season was really effective, I don't see it as fleecing. He was a need and Gainey gave fair value for the type of player he was at the time.

Not a trade, therefore it cannot be something where Gainey was fleeced

The second we got for Huet also allowed us to acquire Lang. I still don't understand how this was a "fleece". Also you complain about letting Souray and Streit walk for nothing, but then complain when we traded an impending UFA. Shows that some people will never be happy.
Not a trade
Not a trade

Still yet to be determined, I liked Latendresse, hated his attitude and Ethic, it seems to have followed him to Minnesotta as his coached called him out.




First you said we get fleeced every 4 out of 5 deals, not you talk about Gaffes. You used the fleecing excuse to explain why you don't give our GM the benefit of the doubt.

Here's some trades off the top of my head that were good.

1. Kovalev trade. Was a great trade
2. The Rivet trade. Great trade.
3. Garon for Bonk and Huet. Very Good trade, both players filled their roles perfectly, much more than Garon could ever have.
4. 2nd round pick for Lang

The only really clear cut bad one was Ribiero.
All low level trades. And still, the Ribeiro one was such an epic fail that Gainey's low level trades can't even save it.

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Old
11-03-2010, 09:18 PM
  #187
Andy
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
All low level trades. And still, the Ribeiro one was such an epic fail that Gainey's low level trades can't even save it.
But you still haven't shown me the fleecing of every 4 or 5 trades. All you can refer to is one which can be considered fleecing. It was, Gainey admitted it. But you still haven't shown me a reason as to why I shoudn't give gauthier the benefit of the doubt.

I wouldn't call the Kovalev trade a low level trade considering he was a key part of our Key for a good amount of time. He wasn't the best player in the league, but he was still an important part of our team(though i didn't really like him).

Rivet for Gorges and Pacioretty low level? Gorges is part of our current core and is a very important player for this club. He gets praised by every analyst and is a fan favorite, a coaches favorite and a team's favorite.

Bonk also played pretty well for us as our 3rd line center. Up to this day I still think he was the best shutdown center we've ever had in the Gainey-Gauthier era. Actually if we had a player of that defensive calibre on our team now, we'd be a lot better than what we are now. Huet was also a key contribute in his time here. You're actually mad that we shipped him off, so I don't see how you can just brush the trade as "low level"

Lang was also acquired for very little and did a lot for our club before he got injured. In fact he was carrying the club on his shoulders until he got hurt.

In almost everyone of these trades, the guys Gainey brought in played key roles, so I'd hardly call that low level trades. But considering that your just so pessimistic about everything, I'm not surprised that you view everything as doom and gloom. In your mind that one Ribiero trade trumped all other goods.

Here, I'll help you out. Scott Gomez trade.

Although here are some other trades that I though were fair...not omg what a genius trade, but a fair trade.

1. Tanguay for the 1st round pick
2. Schneider for the second round pick.

Both of these are no different than San Jose trading Gorges and 1st for Rivet was considered to be a good hockey trade. But yet the Canadiens complete a similar trade, they've been fleeced.

A fleecing is the Ribeiro trade. Or the Heatley trade. Or the Hossa to the pens. All two of the three players in that deal played for different teams within two years, did contribute anything significant to the club and the third part of that trade looks like he may never make the nhl. And Hossa is a whole different Calibre of player from what we've ever traded.

Heatley was traded essentially for Michalek. Cheechoo was terrible(though all his injuries ruined his career, Ottawa took a gamble).


Last edited by Andy: 11-03-2010 at 10:01 PM.
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11-03-2010, 09:20 PM
  #188
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Great article on the return the habs got for Halak. http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...er-trade-value



"The Canadiens have had an organizational deficiency at center for the last decade, especially ones with size. Depth up the middle has always been integral to success in the NHL. The Canadiens finally leveraged an asset to acquire one and with Plekanec and Gomez are set down the middle for the next 3-5 seasons. In my eyes he has proven that he is an NHL player. Have patience, let the kid acclimate himself to the organization, the city and learn Martin's system before thrusting him into a role that will ultimately lead to failure."

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11-03-2010, 09:26 PM
  #189
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Great article on the return the habs got for Halak. http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/20...er-trade-value



"The Canadiens have had an organizational deficiency at center for the last decade, especially ones with size. Depth up the middle has always been integral to success in the NHL. The Canadiens finally leveraged an asset to acquire one and with Plekanec and Gomez are set down the middle for the next 3-5 seasons. In my eyes he has proven that he is an NHL player. Have patience, let the kid acclimate himself to the organization, the city and learn Martin's system before thrusting him into a role that will ultimately lead to failure."
JayBee heard from posters on hockey forums on the internet that Gauthier could've got more for Halak so I'm not even going to bother reading this article.

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11-03-2010, 09:40 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
That's your opinion. I'd give Gainey a C as a GM. I'm sure some of you would give him an A.
Well, Gainey is gone. So I couldn't care less if you gave him a ''Z''. It doesn't matter anymore, Gauthier hasn't even been here for a year yet, so let's wait to see how our team evolves under him. Next summer he'll have about half of the cap freed up, it'll be a good opportunity for him to show us what path he feels our team should fallow.

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11-04-2010, 07:22 AM
  #191
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Will You Guys Please Stop Quoting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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11-04-2010, 08:01 AM
  #192
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???? You have a rather short memory. A.K and Pouliot were HUGE question marks after the playoffs. Nowhere to fit a top six winger. You're kidding yourself. We lost a very valuable asset to acquire an UNPROVEN young centre who MIGHT be good and PRODUCTIVE maybe next year, maybe the year after. In the modern NHL, you have to win NOW. I don't mean winning 7 games out of ten at the begoinning of the season. I mean the real wins at the end.
You sound like Brian Burke and his short sighed ways.

So Gary Bettman and co will let us add a 4-5 mil player(Gagne Malone Backes) without the cap room?

Unless we were ready to pull a New Jersey and go with a 19-20 player roster all year, we did not have the room to get a veteran top 6 guy.

Eller looks like a guy that will have a damn good NHL career for a long time...I'd rather have taht than a 1 year quick fix.

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11-04-2010, 08:11 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Gainey gaffes:

1. Ribeiro trade (A massive gaffe)
2. Tanguay trade (lost a 1st round pick for a guy who was too afraid to play in the plyaoffs)
3. Spacek signing
4. Trading Huet away and letting Price handle the load
5. Letting Streit walk
6. Letting Souray walk for nothing (had high trade value and everyone knew he wasn't going to get signed)
7. Not looking too good on the Latendresse trade either.

That's just off the top of my head. Come in here and make excuses for him.
The Latendresse and Huet trades I agree, Huet deal led to a lot of Price's struggled the last 2 years and losing to the Flyers with 2 rookie goalies.

You have to put things in context. Ribeiro had a lot of off ice issues here and it was known around the league. It was a case of addition by substraction because the team had to clean up the room.

The Tanguay trade was market value, just because he ended up only playing one year, you can't go back and say it was overpayment. It was a trade for an established player.

Spacek I have no trouble with the signing itself but it should have been one year, maybe 2 at the most.

Letting Streit and Souray walk, what were the options? To sign both to ridiculous contracts? One one hand you complain about Spacek but you didn't want Streit and Souray to leave despite the fact that both signed ridiculous deals elswhere. Those guys were eventually replaced by a cheaper player(Schneider/MAB and now Subban). Trading those guys while in a playoff spot is not a realistic option except on HF.

All in all, Gainey has made a few gaffes, but he's also made a lot of shrewd moves and brought in some good people. If you look at the last 6-7 years under Gainey, the results are a lot better than the ones before, and we have a good crop of young players and home grown guys to supplement guys signed and traded for.

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11-04-2010, 09:44 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
Eck ?
nope, sam quote

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11-04-2010, 10:37 AM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
Gainey gaffes:

1. Ribeiro trade (A massive gaffe)
2. Tanguay trade (lost a 1st round pick for a guy who was too afraid to play in the plyaoffs)
3. Spacek signing
4. Trading Huet away and letting Price handle the load
5. Letting Streit walk
6. Letting Souray walk for nothing (had high trade value and everyone knew he wasn't going to get signed)
7. Not looking too good on the Latendresse trade either.

That's just off the top of my head. Come in here and make excuses for him.
Streit wanted to play D at the time it didnt look like the smart thing to do.

Latendresse trade is pretty even this season I would say.

Huet traded because they were supposed to get Hedberg in the Hossa trade that pittsburgh stole at the last minute. I thought this was pretty well known. maybe not the smartest thing to do but I can understand it.

Tanguay was looking for decent money after his season with the habs and considering he had 2 bummed shouders at the end of the year why would they resign him. Things change over 8 months, hard to believe.

Easy to look back in hindsight.



And on the center thing, from what I can understand its way easier to convert a center to wing than the other way around.

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11-05-2010, 12:15 AM
  #196
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well i found some solace in seeing garon and the blue jackets blank the thrashers also by 3-0

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