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Coyotes @ Predators ~~ November 3rd, 2010 9:00PM

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11-04-2010, 09:38 AM
  #76
hockey diva
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What is it going to take for these guys to play a full 60 minutes?

If guys aren't stepping up reduce their ice time and give it to someone who will. I'm big Cody fan but even I can see he has issues. I had hoped he would have worked with a power skating coach over the summer but it's obvious that he didn't. I think Boullion is doing pretty well considering but maybe try O'Brien up with Shea and see if that works better. I do hope the guys use this road trip to get unified and focused.

And I will say it again, I am done with Trotz and his coaching. His mixing and matching of forwards doesn't help anyone create chemistry. He punishes younger players for one mistake. And I am very disturbed by his treatment of JP Dumont. JP has busted his butt, made the choice to stay here and has not complained. He deserves better.

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11-04-2010, 09:48 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
What is it going to take for these guys to play a full 60 minutes?

If guys aren't stepping up reduce their ice time and give it to someone who will. I'm big Cody fan but even I can see he has issues. I had hoped he would have worked with a power skating coach over the summer but it's obvious that he didn't. I think Boullion is doing pretty well considering but maybe try O'Brien up with Shea and see if that works better. I do hope the guys use this road trip to get unified and focused.

And I will say it again, I am done with Trotz and his coaching. His mixing and matching of forwards doesn't help anyone create chemistry. He punishes younger players for one mistake. And I am very disturbed by his treatment of JP Dumont. JP has busted his butt, made the choice to stay here and has not complained. He deserves better.

Ready to eat some crow on Kostitsyn, who Trotz has heaped heavy praise on, and is steadily climbing up the roster?

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11-04-2010, 09:51 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
If someone can explain to me what's going on with the PP I'd sure appreciate it because it's becoming quite a bit of a sore spot with me when I see the same issues year after year and nothing really appears to be getting done about it.
1.) You know the answer....(hint: it begins with a "T").
2.) I've got it at 8 SOG's on the PP---not great.
3.) There was a 45 second or so time frame were the PP had some decent pressure--the only problem was it wasn't really set plays but more scrambling and PHO inability to clear the puck. Other than that, nothing was working or even looked like it was working...as usual.
4.) According to the stats, the Preds managed 10-12 for 83% on the FO's on the PP. Even with that tremendous percentage, they still managed little offensive pressure...as usual. With this FO advantage and realizing that they weren't spending 20 or so seconds at the beginning of every PP retrieving and entering the zone like they normally do, this was perhaps a more frustrating sequence of PP failures than I've seen for awhile. The Preds actually had a pretty large chunk of puck possession on the PP this game and really didn't get too much out of it.

Lastly, Ward-Legwand-Wilson played most of the last 3:34. Is this the Preds best chance of scoring? Did Trotz know the Preds were a goal down?

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11-04-2010, 09:55 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
Ready to eat some crow on Kostitsyn, who Trotz has heaped heavy praise on, and is steadily climbing up the roster?
Nope! I am wondering if maybe there are issues in the locker room that are affecting things on the ice. SK is also known for being a problem in the locker room.

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11-04-2010, 10:10 AM
  #80
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Stop complaining about the PP. We basically scored twice last night on the PP. One of the two won't appear in the books because the PP had just expired when Cube shot the puck. That's two in the last week that we scored just as time expired AND before their guy had a chance to enter the play after leaving the box.

Look, I know it's not the greatest PP. But it has improved tremendously since last season. We still struggle getting the puck through the neutral zone. But once we are set up, the puck is moving around fairly well. It's a huge improvement from "get the puck to Weber on the point". And that's all we had last year.

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11-04-2010, 10:16 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by JCpredator View Post
Look, I know it's not the greatest PP. TRUE

But it has improved tremendously since last season. FALSE
.....

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11-04-2010, 10:19 AM
  #82
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Why are people complaining about Trotz?

We are absolutely riddled with injuries and we got off to a decent start but they finally caught up with us. Getting just Goc back made this team look a bit more dynamic offensively. We lost because of Rinne and Franson being slow. All four lines had a chance to score after we went behind and the 4th was limited in ice-time because it was not as effective as the other three. There is nothing I can fault Trotz for there.

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11-04-2010, 10:28 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I wouldn't. When Weber was injured a couple years ago, Suter was invisible. We went on a 6 game losing streak or something like that after he was injured. I think it's fairly safe to say that they rely on each other equally.

Weber looked fine out there to me. You can tell he's toned down his game since he doesn't have a reliable partner.
I'd disagree personally. That was the 07-08 season right? Suter was still in his development phase then. Suter is such a smooth steady defender I think he can make just about anybody look good paired with him. It's not a knock on Weber but Weber is not a guy who carries the puck. He doesn't have the skating of Suter and can't elude defenders with the puck the way Suter can. Boullion can't do this very well either. Watching them attempt to break the puck out is painful.

Agree to disagree I guess.

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11-04-2010, 10:33 AM
  #84
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Marcel Goc and SK 74 looked great last night. Keep em together please.

Dumont needs to be placed on a top line. Seriously? Spaling and Smitty? Really?

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11-04-2010, 10:39 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by hockey diva View Post
Nope! I am wondering if maybe there are issues in the locker room that are affecting things on the ice. SK is also known for being a problem in the locker room.
Seriously? Riddled with injuries, Rinne has a bad outing, we drop a few in a row and you are ready to blame SK and declare locker room cancer? I think we need a larger sample size to make that call...


Last edited by BigFatCat999: 11-04-2010 at 12:10 PM. Reason: Keep it civil. Come on now.
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11-04-2010, 10:44 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by darth5 View Post
Seriously? Riddled with injuries, Rinne has a bad outing, we drop a few in a row and you are ready to blame SK and declare locker room cancer? Maybe you should stick to middle earth, I think we need a larger sample size to make that call...
Why use logic when you can panic 11 games into the season? It's so much funner!

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11-04-2010, 10:49 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
I'd disagree personally. That was the 07-08 season right? Suter was still in his development phase then. Suter is such a smooth steady defender I think he can make just about anybody look good paired with him. It's not a knock on Weber but Weber is not a guy who carries the puck. He doesn't have the skating of Suter and can't elude defenders with the puck the way Suter can. Boullion can't do this very well either. Watching them attempt to break the puck out is painful.

Agree to disagree I guess.
Suter and Weber aren't gods. They're really good, but aren't close to a Pronger/Niedermayer combination. I just hope they don't expect to be paid like those guys were.

But certainly, no one else on this team belongs anywhere close to the 1st pair. We have a good top pair; the rest are 5th defensemen at best.

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11-04-2010, 10:55 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by I Will Son View Post
Why cant our PP do a thing?
Lack of offensive talent. No first line forward. No powerplay QB. Even when Suter is healthy, he's not a great QB.


Last edited by dulzhok: 11-04-2010 at 11:13 AM.
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11-04-2010, 11:38 AM
  #89
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Wow, a week ago we were the greatest team since sliced bread. Now Trotz needs to go. We have 800 posts about how bad Franson, Cube, and Sulzer are. The dynamic duo of Weber and Suter are now just average Dmen. The PP is still the worst in the league. And Wardo sucks.

What I saw was a bad night for Pekka (gonna happen from time to time). We sorely miss Suter (having trouble getting the puck out of our zone). I also saw three dynamic offensive lines (thank you Goc). SK and Tootoo continue to improve. And lastly, we scored 2 PP goals.

Our young Dmen are making mistakes from which they will learn. When Sutes returns, they will be better players merely from playing more minutes in tough situations. Franson, Sulzer, and SOB can go back to defending grinders and energy lines instead of scoring lines.

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11-04-2010, 11:49 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by JCpredator View Post
The dynamic duo of Weber and Suter are now just average Dmen.
How does "really good" translate into "just average"? Your translator is broken.

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11-04-2010, 12:13 PM
  #91
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The pp even we scored doesn't have any rhythm at all. Trotz pp choices are baffling. Trotz explanation for any offensive attack is to put Sully on the point and put Tootoo on a scoring line. Sully is terrible on the point. Tootoo can't score. I don't care how many wherling derby shots he takes. The pp for many years doesn't have a playmaker for one. Second nobody except Sully and Erat can bring puck in the zone without loosing it. More times than not we just dump the puck in and most of the time loose it. Why not try Sk on the PP? What has Dumont done to deserve to be exspelled to the fourth line? Is Wilson a winger or a center? We used to be one of the best pk teams in the league. Was Greg Zanon that good? The pk hasn't been the same since. When Suter comes back will all of our problems be solved? I don't think so

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11-04-2010, 12:15 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
How does "really good" translate into "just average"? Your translator is broken.
Not a translation, just hyperbole to make a point. When both are healthy and we are winning, most Preds fans think they are one of the best, if not THE BEST pair in the league. Don't think you post your comment if Suter is playing and our Dmen aren't struggling to fill his shoes, (er skates).

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11-04-2010, 12:23 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by JCpredator View Post
Wow, a week ago we were the greatest team since sliced bread. Now Trotz needs to go. We have 800 posts about how bad Franson, Cube, and Sulzer are. The dynamic duo of Weber and Suter are now just average Dmen. The PP is still the worst in the league. And Wardo sucks.
It's nothing new around here. It's sort of like how supporters of one political party will complain about things their opposition does while in power even though their own party has done or will do the same exact thing when given the reigns, strategically speaking of course. Or how people complain about how hot it is and can't wait for winter until it gets cold. The complaint then flips.

We played very good hockey in our first five or six games, and haven't looked so great in the last three. It's the nature of a long season. Last year was similar. We just have to hope that this year, like last, we have longer spells of good-to-great hockey than we do of average-to-below-average hockey. Let's get healthy before indicting anyone. (Unless it's Trotz, Poile, Klein, Cube, or Franson. )

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11-04-2010, 12:27 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by JCpredator View Post
Not a translation, just hyperbole to make a point. When both are healthy and we are winning, most Preds fans think they are one of the best, if not THE BEST pair in the league. Don't think you post your comment if Suter is playing and our Dmen aren't struggling to fill his shoes, (er skates).
Yeah the team is having problems filling in for Suter. But aren't we supposed to have for an organization above average talent for defence? Hamhuis moves on and who replaces him and Suter has an injury. We trade for OB and Sulzer and Franson are the best of our young corp of defense? We developed a Zanon who's not the elitist of D and we can't find suitable replacement for him or that type of D. Franson is an offensive D that lacks D or is just too slow. Injuries happen and will continue happen is our talent base overated or is development rate taken longer than expected.

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11-04-2010, 12:31 PM
  #95
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Ah lovely, I lose the CI preview and the team starts sucking.

This team scored 3 goals and should be able to win games. It's due time for the insertion of the classic goalie controversy right about NOW! (I'm serious, I'm betting Lindback for 1B status by the end of the year, it's the Predators way.)

Now, for a more logical and sane post compared to recent posts on this message board, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Now, I feel better. This team has enough offensive minded players to pout goals in the net. Problem is that they need more defensive minded forwards to solidify a 4th line. At the beginning of the year I wanted SK-Legwand-Ward to be a 3rd line to act as a shutdown line with punch. Do I still want that? hell's yeah! Will I get it? Most likely not. Trotz randomizes and plays around with lines to build all around chemistry. If you have plug and play lines it's much easier to defend on the ice. An opposing coach knows what to expect.

Suter is hurting this team badly. Many people complain that we see Suter as a better defenseman than Weber, but guess what. This team's PP is better with Suter. The defense as a whole is better with Suter.

My biggest concerns as of right now:

Rinne's over-exaggerated play: He's moving way too much in the crease. I saw this when he was winning and now it's hurting when the team is losing. He's trying to move to the puck when he should already be in position to the puck. He's a big friggin wall of Fin, he just needs to keep his positioning and everything will be ok.

I'll be honest, I'm wondering what is going on with Dumont. He's taking shots but are they high quality shots? If he's implanting the puck into the boards or right into the chest/glove of the goalie I would be upset too.

Confusing but still it's 11 games into the season and once healthy this team will be better. No Suter, no Erat, no defense.

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11-04-2010, 12:49 PM
  #96
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Also, is it just me or have a TON of Weber's shots not been on net? Seemed like this started at the end of last season, is it because the other teams are keying on him and giving him less room to shoot? I have noticed that even when he has room he's missed a lot, so I don't know what to think at this point.

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Old
11-04-2010, 12:54 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by JCpredator View Post
Not a translation, just hyperbole to make a point. When both are healthy and we are winning, most Preds fans think they are one of the best, if not THE BEST pair in the league. Don't think you post your comment if Suter is playing and our Dmen aren't struggling to fill his shoes, (er skates).
I've said for the past year that while Weber and Suter are one of the best pairs in the league, they aren't to the god-like status of a Progner/Niedermayer pairing.

Weber is not the best puck mover. While very good defensively, he's not a dominate shut down defenseman like Progner. While Suter is a good puck mover, he doesn't have near the offensive abilities of say, Nick Lidstrom, or Scott Neidermayer for that matter. Still, they are one of the best pairs in the league, but Weber isn't Progner, and Suter isn't Lidstrom. They are a level below the truly elite. Thankfully, when you have 2 "level below" elite dmen together, it turns out pretty well.

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11-04-2010, 01:07 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
I've said for the past year that while Weber and Suter are one of the best pairs in the league, they aren't to the god-like status of a Progner/Niedermayer pairing.

Weber is not the best puck mover. While very good defensively, he's not a dominate shut down defenseman like Progner. While Suter is a good puck mover, he doesn't have near the offensive abilities of say, Nick Lidstrom, or Scott Neidermayer for that matter. Still, they are one of the best pairs in the league, but Weber isn't Progner, and Suter isn't Lidstrom. They are a level below the truly elite. Thankfully, when you have 2 "level below" elite dmen together, it turns out pretty well.
Agree with this 100 percent. Both are Top end guys but I doubt either will be as dominate as guys like Pronger and Lidstrom were during their prime.

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11-04-2010, 01:32 PM
  #99
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Watching Sully Struggle with these Breakaways is beginning to frazzle my good humor... I hope his fortunes change. When we once again could NOT get that "next" goal, I knew it was gonna be a brutal finish.

Hey, weren't we really good once at holding onto those 1 goal leads?

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11-04-2010, 02:43 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by JCpredator View Post
Wow, a week ago we were the greatest team since sliced bread. Now Trotz needs to go. We have 800 posts about how bad Franson, Cube, and Sulzer are. The dynamic duo of Weber and Suter are now just average Dmen. The PP is still the worst in the league. And Wardo sucks.

What I saw was a bad night for Pekka (gonna happen from time to time). We sorely miss Suter (having trouble getting the puck out of our zone). I also saw three dynamic offensive lines (thank you Goc). SK and Tootoo continue to improve. And lastly, we scored 2 PP goals.

Our young Dmen are making mistakes from which they will learn. When Sutes returns, they will be better players merely from playing more minutes in tough situations. Franson, Sulzer, and SOB can go back to defending grinders and energy lines instead of scoring lines.
For the record I've been saying Cube is bad all along, it's not a new thing for me, I'm consistant with that....


I agree on the rest. The Trotz stuff is baffling to say the least.

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