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You are GM, What Do You Do?

View Poll Results: Which Choice Do you make?
Sign Giroux/Leino to contracts, trade Carter? 27 32.93%
Sign Giroux, and lock Carter into a Richards type deal? 25 30.49%
Sign Carter/Leino and trade Giroux? 0 0%
Move a Dman and sign all three including NTC/NMC's? 30 36.59%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-04-2010, 04:36 PM
  #126
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Jester, when Jeff Carter does not produce in the playoffs again and Ville Leino is off in Detroit being a playoff producer it will be wonderful that we paid so much for so little. The LBH line is the best even strength producing line, they occupy offensive zone time, cycle the puck down low, create offense and good line changes and will also create PP chances due to d-men not able to make line changes and havign to extend their shifts.

Whereas we can watch Carter rip down the wing, shoot the puck from bad angles, miss the net and create a rush up the weakside wing which means Carter needs to be defensively proficient to be able to survive in this league.
1) Over their careers, players produce in the playoffs as they produce in the regular season.

2) Carter is absolutely "defensively proficient," but keep creating fictitious fantasies to criticize him with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Giroux is more valuable IMO. Not saying Carter is not valauble, just that his value may be best suited on the trading block with the depth down the middle on this roster.
What depth? Briere won't be playing center by the end of his contract... we have NOBODY in the minors. Moreover, if Briere doesn't continue to click with his line for any stretch, that line will become a defensive sink hole with a quickness.

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Old
11-04-2010, 04:36 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Giroux is more valuable IMO. Not saying Carter is not valauble, just that his value may be best suited on the trading block with the depth down the middle on this roster.
Only problem with that is then your centers are 5-11, 5-11 and 5-10. Good luck checking a team like the Pens with centers who are 6-4, 6-3, 5-11. And then offensively you have no size as well.

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11-04-2010, 04:39 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Only problem with that is then your centers are 5-11, 5-11 and 5-10. Good luck checking a team like the Pens with centers who are 6-4, 6-3, 5-11. And then offensively you have no size as well.
We also get EXTREMELY weak offensively at even strength. Richards and Briere, for example, do a lot of their goal scoring damage on the PP... not as much at even strength.

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11-04-2010, 06:09 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
I don't think he's that slow. Hell, I think he has more mobility than Walker or even what Hatcher and Rathje had.
That's not saying much.

Even ignoring his speed, I'm not a fan of re-signing 40 year-olds in general. Too risky with the 35+ rule and the likelihood of deteriorating play. The only player I can remember in the last few years being productive at the age of 40 and beyond is Recchi (who is as slow as a snail) and I guess Chelios.

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Old
11-04-2010, 06:16 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
That's not saying much.

Even ignoring his speed, I'm not a fan of re-signing 40 year-olds in general. Too risky with the 35+ rule and the likelihood of deteriorating play. The only player I can remember in the last few years being productive at the age of 40 and beyond is Recchi (who is as slow as a snail) and I guess Chelios.
Lidstrom and Selanne are 40

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11-06-2010, 08:00 AM
  #131
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i would trade kimo and sign everybody. carle coburn and meszaros would round out a decent top four behind pronger and open up spots on the 3rd pairing for young guys to move up. its going to be crucial to shift some salary from the back end up front and timmonen is our highest salaried player. its not something i like doing and id expect a decent value but given our offensive vs defensive depth both on the roster and on the phantoms its the best move imo

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Old
11-06-2010, 08:25 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I gotta say, I was shocked when Cartsiephan voted to trade Carter.

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11-06-2010, 08:38 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
i would trade kimo and sign everybody. carle coburn and meszaros would round out a decent top four behind pronger and open up spots on the 3rd pairing for young guys to move up. its going to be crucial to shift some salary from the back end up front and timmonen is our highest salaried player. its not something i like doing and id expect a decent value but given our offensive vs defensive depth both on the roster and on the phantoms its the best move imo
You could sign everyone by simply trading Carle or Mezsaros instead of Timonen. Sign another O'Donnell type player (at 1M) to play with Bartulis on the third pairing.

Here goes a cap increase of 1.5M.
Trade Carle
Sign Carter to 6.5M
Sign Giroux to 3.5M
Sign Leino to 3.0M
Sign Nodl to 900K
Sign Powe to 900K

All that and you still have 1.1 in cap space.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.500m)
Ville Leino ($3.000m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Scott Hartnell ($4.200m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.900m) / Jeff Carter ($6.500m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Darroll Powe ($0.900m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)
Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Matt Walker ($1.700m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m) /Michael Leighton ($1.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $60,900,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,405,596; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,194,404

EDIT: You could also waive Walker and bring in a different defenseman for less and save even more money.

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11-06-2010, 08:39 AM
  #134
Garbage Goal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
You could sign everyone by simply trading Carle or Mezsaros instead of Timonen. Sign another O'Donnell type player (at 1M) to play with Bartulis on the third pairing.

Here goes a cap increase of 1.5M.
Trade Carle
Sign Carter to 6.5M
Sign Giroux to 3.5M
Sign Leino to 3.0M

Sign Nodl to 900K
Sign Powe to 900K

All that and you still have 1.1 in cap space.

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.500m)
Ville Leino ($3.000m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Scott Hartnell ($4.200m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.900m) / Jeff Carter ($6.500m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Darroll Powe ($0.900m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)
Ian Laperriere ($1.166m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Matt Walker ($1.700m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m) /Michael Leighton ($1.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $60,900,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,405,596; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $1,194,404

EDIT: You could also waive Walker and bring in a different defenseman for less and save even more money.
Short of a monster year by both Leino and Giroux, that's overpayment too.

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Old
11-06-2010, 09:08 AM
  #135
Snotbubbles
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Short of a monster year by both Leino and Giroux, that's overpayment too.
Yes. I'm trying to go high end on the numbers. But really, signing Carter, Giroux and Leino will cost us a Matt Carle at the most I think. And if you can get Carter at say 5.75-6.0, Giroux at 3.0 and Leino at 2.5, it will only cost us a Matt Walker.

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Old
11-06-2010, 09:13 AM
  #136
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Just for SNG. Here's a 60.9 Cap.

Waive Walker
Sign Carter @ 6M
Giroux @ 3M
Leino @ 2.75M
Nodl @ 925K
Powe @ 900k

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.000m)
Ville Leino ($2.750m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Scott Hartnell ($4.200m)
Andreas Nodl ($0.925m) / Jeff Carter ($6.000m) / Eric Wellwood ($0.580m)
Ian Laperriere ($1.166m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Jody Shelley ($1.100m)
Darroll Powe ($0.900m)

DEFENSEMEN
Chris Pronger ($4.921m) / Matt Carle ($3.437m)
Kimmo Timonen ($6.333m) / Braydon Coburn ($3.200m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)
Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m) /Michael Leighton ($1.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $60,900,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,918,096; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $681,904

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Old
11-06-2010, 10:35 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Ville Leino has played 80 games in the NHL, has scored 30 pts... and people want to give him 3+M?

I mean, cem on.
Since the start of playoffs 32GP, 9G, 23A, 32P and +15.

Yeah, I think he's worth 3M.

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11-06-2010, 11:01 AM
  #138
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He may be worth it, but we can definitely get him cheaper.

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11-06-2010, 11:50 AM
  #139
Jester
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Originally Posted by paragon View Post
Since the start of playoffs 32GP, 9G, 23A, 32P and +15.

Yeah, I think he's worth 3M.
Get back to me at the end of the year... even then, I don't break the bank for Leino.

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Old
11-06-2010, 01:32 PM
  #140
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I think we should wait for more then 14 games before we start throwing numbers at Giroux and Leino.
I think we have somewhat of an idea what Carter will get/ask for.

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11-06-2010, 08:20 PM
  #141
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One thing I completely disagree with is everyone who resigns Powe and Nodl. That is pretty useless to have both of them. The emergence of Wellwood has made one of them expendable. And before Wellwood emerged they both did the same thing.

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11-07-2010, 10:04 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by KevinLin View Post
One thing I completely disagree with is everyone who resigns Powe and Nodl. That is pretty useless to have both of them. The emergence of Wellwood has made one of them expendable. And before Wellwood emerged they both did the same thing.
Well, come crunch time... Jody Shelley will not be dressing for this team. Keep that in mind.

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11-07-2010, 10:39 AM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
You could sign everyone by simply trading Carle or Mezsaros instead of Timonen. Sign another O'Donnell type player (at 1M) to play with Bartulis on the third pairing.



EDIT: You could also waive Walker and bring in a different defenseman for less and save even more money.
pronger is your clear cut number one and both carle and meszaros have so far shown they can adequately play on the second pairing.coburn has shown significant growth as well and all come in at nearly half the price of kimo. if your looking for value on the cap dollar either makes more sense to keep then timonen. hes a first pairing guy making first pairing money playing on the second. its my presumption hed also get a first pairing return. moving timonen for assets could improve the team while either carle or meszaros would be a lateral move at best.


the only hole i see in this lineup is a top9 roster forward which we acquire the cap space for as well as have a significant chance of getting in a return for timonen and not so much with mesz or carle

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR

FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($1.654m) / Mike Richards ($5.750m) / Claude Giroux ($3.500m)
Nikolai Zherdev ($3.000m) / Jeff Carter ($6.500m) / Andreas Nodl ($1.000m)
Scott Hartnell ($4.200m) / Daniel Briere ($6.500m) / Ville Leino ($3.000m)
Jody Shelley ($1.100m) / Blair Betts ($0.700m) / Darroll Powe ($0.800m)

DEFENSEMEN
Matt Carle ($3.437m) / Chris Pronger ($4.921m)
Braydon Coburn ($3.200m) / Erik Gustafsson ($0.900m)
Andrej Meszaros ($4.000m) / Matt Walker ($1.700m)
/ Oskars Bartulis ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
Sergei Bobrovsky ($1.750m) /Michael Leighton ($1.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,763,096; BONUSES: $1,700,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $1,336,904


Last edited by captainpaxil: 11-07-2010 at 10:51 AM. Reason: inserted cap
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Old
11-07-2010, 10:42 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
pronger is your clear cut number one and both carle and meszaros have so far shown they can adequately play on the second pairing.coburn has shown significant growth as well and all come in at nearly half the price of kimo. if your looking for value on the cap dollar either makes more sense to keep then timonen. hes a first pairing guy making first pairing money playing on the second. its my presumption hed also get a first pairing return. moving timonen for assets could improve the team while either carle or meszaros would be a lateral move at best.
You are underestimating the difference between a "good" defenseman, and the alphas. The impact a guy like Timonen can have on the team is exponentially more than a Coburn, Carle, or Meszaros. Alphas can carry weak partners and make them better (which Timonen has been doing for us throughout his tenure)... "good" guys cannot do that. They might be good, but they get dragged down a bit when you put 'em with a weaker link.

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11-07-2010, 11:56 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You are underestimating the difference between a "good" defenseman, and the alphas. The impact a guy like Timonen can have on the team is exponentially more than a Coburn, Carle, or Meszaros. Alphas can carry weak partners and make them better (which Timonen has been doing for us throughout his tenure)... "good" guys cannot do that. They might be good, but they get dragged down a bit when you put 'em with a weaker link.
no i absolutely think timo has that effect but as this team grows the amount of coverage we should need dwindles. carle coburn and meszaros have to step into the roles they have as established players in this league. while they are all young and getting better at some point you have to let them try and carry the ball. at the cap hits these guys are carrying you have to judge whether you can justify their salaries and also justify paying kimo extra to babysit. im not saying any of these guys are as good as timonen just that with that kind of depth hes kind of hard to keep around at that cap number.also i want to say again id expect a significantly batter return trading kimo as it implies the growth of these younger players while moving one of them implies a certain lack of faith

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11-07-2010, 11:59 AM
  #146
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Timonen has a NMC btw

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11-07-2010, 12:03 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
1) Over their careers, players produce in the playoffs as they produce in the regular season.

2) Carter is absolutely "defensively proficient," but keep creating fictitious fantasies to criticize him with.



What depth? Briere won't be playing center by the end of his contract... we have NOBODY in the minors. Moreover, if Briere doesn't continue to click with his line for any stretch, that line will become a defensive sink hole with a quickness.
I wonder what Jeff did to him to cause all this hatred for one player? Talking about Cartsiefan

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11-07-2010, 12:15 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
no i absolutely think timo has that effect but as this team grows the amount of coverage we should need dwindles. carle coburn and meszaros have to step into the roles they have as established players in this league. while they are all young and getting better at some point you have to let them try and carry the ball. at the cap hits these guys are carrying you have to judge whether you can justify their salaries and also justify paying kimo extra to babysit. im not saying any of these guys are as good as timonen just that with that kind of depth hes kind of hard to keep around at that cap number.also i want to say again id expect a significantly batter return trading kimo as it implies the growth of these younger players while moving one of them implies a certain lack of faith
Right, but lateral moves for similar-to-weaker won't have that much of an impact if you keep a guy of Timonen's quality around. Take out Timonen, and you'll see a notable drop in the level of play. I mean, remember what happened when we lost Desjardins. Guys like Pitkanen went from looking OK (very very good in Pitkanen's case) to the team being a complete disaster.

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11-07-2010, 02:59 PM
  #149
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As much as I like Carter, I have felt very strongly he feels out of place on this roster. Some are saying we don't have any center prospects, which is true. However there are teams out there that have center prospects and do not have 5 centers on their main roster. Giroux is going to get a deal, Richards and Briere are already here for a very long time. Those are our top 9 centers for a few years to come, I don't know how anyone can justify keeping Carter and losing wings/defense and not having any center prospects.

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11-07-2010, 03:02 PM
  #150
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As much as I like Carter, I have felt very strongly he feels out of place on this roster. Some are saying we don't have any center prospects, which is true. However there are teams out there that have center prospects and do not have 5 centers on their main roster. Giroux is going to get a deal, Richards and Briere are already here for a very long time. Those are our top 9 centers for a few years to come, I don't know how anyone can justify keeping Carter and losing wings/defense and not having any center prospects.
We don't really have five centers. We have five players that can play center, but two of them are natural wingers and more then capable at playing wing.

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