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Derek Boogaard Pro and Con

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Old
11-05-2010, 04:53 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I absolutely cannot believe they gave him that slashing call.... That's one of the weakest calls I've seen in awhile..
The referees did us no favors last night. Callahan being flung head first into the boards by Timonen and less than a minute later Staal gets a boarding on Zherdev. Not saying that hit wasn't a penalty but Timonen's move was much worse and no call. Carcillo taking a flying leap at Fedotenko--one wonders if that's reviewable for a suspension because it was obviously an intended headshot--anyway no call on that at all and then we get this little slash by Boogaard meanwhile ignoring the punch in the back of the head by Shelley.

In overall terms the Flyers outplayed us anyway and would probably have won whether the refereeing was more equitable so maybe this is petty griping. You run into games like this where the officiating just ****s over one team or the other. Not a good night for us but a bad job of officiating didn't help.

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11-05-2010, 09:11 AM
  #102
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last ngiht was clearly the final nail in the coffin in regards to boogaards purpose on this team

one uninspired, worthless, momemtum killing fight in the beginning of a rough and chippy game where we were phyiscally dominated throughout

he should be cut...end of story

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11-05-2010, 09:26 AM
  #103
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Will you please stop this the final nail in me believing some people here actually understand hockey. Boogy had a meaning less fight as a lot of you put it. He won the fight vs the other teams goon no big deal but a loss could have been.

Now let's get to the issues at hand. Boogy had nothing to do with the Rangers having 11 shots on goal after 2 periods. He has nothing to do with Callahan Dubinski and Boyle not playing tough. He has nothing to do with Hanks horrible deflating goal. He was not Staal who was as Dave Maloney said puck gazing on the wrong side of the ice. Boogaard fought and won. Carcillio is a punk and did what he did because he is a dirt bag dirty player. Brandon Prust kicked his ass all over the ice and stood up for his teammate. Boogy is far cry from Messier but stop the whole everything is his fault nonsense man
this just in Boogaard is now responsible for in Ranger land
He traded for Espo as a child
He tore Jd's knee apart in 1979
he checked ulf Neilson
He dressed as Mario and scored 5 goals off Richter.
He beat up Ollie and stole his jersey and took the shoot out for him

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Old
11-05-2010, 09:33 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Will you please stop this the final nail in me believing some people here actually understand hockey. Boogy had a meaning less fight as a lot of you put it. He won the fight vs the other teams goon no big deal but a loss could have been.

Now let's get to the issues at hand. Boogy had nothing to do with the Rangers having 11 shots on goal after 2 periods. He has nothing to do with Callahan Dubinski and Boyle not playing tough. He has nothing to do with Hanks horrible deflating goal. He was not Staal who was as Dave Maloney said puck gazing on the wrong side of the ice. Boogaard fought and won. Carcillio is a punk and did what he did because he is a dirt bag dirty player. Brandon Prust kicked his ass all over the ice and stood up for his teammate. Boogy is far cry from Messier but stop the whole everything is his fault nonsense man
this just in Boogaard is now responsible for in Ranger land
He traded for Espo as a child
He tore Jd's knee apart in 1979
he checked ulf Neilson
He dressed as Mario and scored 5 goals off Richter.
He beat up Ollie and stole his jersey and took the shoot out for him
Jeez, enough with the drama...

He didn't say Boogaard was responsible for everything that has ever happened to the Rangers. He said Boogaard is not fulfilling his role, and he's right. Don't go off the deep end on us.

Brandon Prust has a cap hit of less than half of Boogaard. Lose Boogaard, find two more Brandon Prusts, and the team will be MUCH better off.


Last edited by Jersey Girl: 11-05-2010 at 09:41 AM.
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11-05-2010, 09:37 AM
  #105
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holy backlash batman

i never said the loss was his fault...or even implied it

but i ask, what did having him on the ice do for the team in regaurds to protection and physical game as a whole?

in regards to the shelly fight: winning clearly accomplished nothing, losing would have been awful....so whats the purpose him fighting? its not like if Boogaard wasnt there shelly was gonna drop the mitts with anisimov

i'd take another prust over boogaard everyday of the week and twice on sunday


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11-05-2010, 09:41 AM
  #106
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Guys...Boogy is a goon, nothing more. I'm not sure what is expected of him by us fans, but his job is to keep the other team's goon in check. That's really all there is to it.

For the most part, he did his job last night. Get off the guy's case.

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11-05-2010, 09:55 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Vito Andolini View Post
Guys...Boogy is a goon, nothing more. I'm not sure what is expected of him by us fans, but his job is to keep the other team's goon in check. That's really all there is to it.

For the most part, he did his job last night. Get off the guy's case.
I don't think anyone is expecting anything more than what he is. That said, what is up for debate is:

1) The importance of keeping the other goon in check

2) Do you really need to invest multiple years and multiple millions of dollars via free agency to fill that role?

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11-05-2010, 10:05 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
holy backlash batman

i never said the loss was his fault...or even implied it

but i ask, what did having him on the ice do for the team in regaurds to protection and physical game as a whole?

in regards to the shelly fight: winning clearly accomplished nothing, losing would have been awful....so whats the purpose him fighting? its not like if Boogaard wasnt there shelly was gonna drop the mitts with anisimov

i'd take another prust over boogaard anyday of the week and twice on sunday
You just don't get it...

In last night's game Boog negates Shelley. That allows Prust to kick Carcillo's can without having to worry about facing Shelley. Haven't you noticed how well Prust is playing because he doesn't need to be the "enforcer". He plays hard and now has the "luxury" of dropping the gloves if it serves a purpose.

Is it coincidence that our boys are playing much more spirited this year? Maybe...maybe not.

Boog is not keeping us from winning the Stanley Cup; he's providing some protection while the rest of the team goes about that pursuit without having to constantly worry about who's going to defend them. It's always nice to have the toughest father on the block.

On the ice or not, Boog's name in the lineup serves a purpose.

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11-05-2010, 10:07 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I don't think anyone is expecting anything more than what he is. That said, what is up for debate is:

1) The importance of keeping the other goon in check

2) Do you really need to invest multiple years and multiple millions of dollars via free agency to fill that role?
you are correct

in my opinion, keeping Jody Shelly in check is of little to no importance to the outcome of the game and the safety of our players...like i said before, if he didnt fight Boogey its not like he was going to drop'em with Anisimov or Del Zotto

conversely, keeping the carcillos of the league in check, is of considerable importance as we've seen time and time again....these guys can effectively derail games and hurt players

the boogaards and shellys of the league are highly ineffective against what is currently the most effective style of "goon"

ergo Boogy is doing nothing of importance for this team, and getting paid a considerable chunk of cap space for it

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11-05-2010, 10:13 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Badko View Post
You just don't get it...

In last night's game Boog negates Shelley. That allows Prust to kick Carcillo's can without having to worry about facing Shelley. Haven't you noticed how well Prust is playing because he doesn't need to be the "enforcer". He plays hard and now has the "luxury" of dropping the gloves if it serves a purpose.

Is it coincidence that our boys are playing much more spirited this year? Maybe...maybe not.

Boog is not keeping us from winning the Stanley Cup; he's providing some protection while the rest of the team goes about that pursuit without having to constantly worry about who's going to defend them. It's always nice to have the toughest father on the block.

On the ice or not, Boog's name in the lineup serves a purpose.
thats a nice thought and all but its fundamentally flawed

you're making the assumption that a Prust type player is being detered by Shelly...why would prust be anymore detered by shelly than carcillo is by Boogaard?

answer: they're not

and that's precisely my point...the avery's, carcillo's and prusts of the league do not care about the presence of boogaards and shelly's....the culture of the new NHL allows them to elect NOT to fight someone they're pretty sure will pound their skull in

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11-05-2010, 10:13 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Badko View Post
You just don't get it...

In last night's game Boog negates Shelley. That allows Prust to kick Carcillo's can without having to worry about facing Shelley. Haven't you noticed how well Prust is playing because he doesn't need to be the "enforcer". He plays hard and now has the "luxury" of dropping the gloves if it serves a purpose.

Is it coincidence that our boys are playing much more spirited this year? Maybe...maybe not.

Boog is not keeping us from winning the Stanley Cup; he's providing some protection while the rest of the team goes about that pursuit without having to constantly worry about who's going to defend them. It's always nice to have the toughest father on the block.

On the ice or not, Boog's name in the lineup serves a purpose.
And yet, quite often the coach keeps him out of the lineup. Tells you something...

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11-05-2010, 10:18 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
the boogaards and shellys of the league are highly ineffective against what is currently the most effective style of "goon"

ergo Boogy is doing nothing of importance for this team, and getting paid a considerable chunk of cap space for it
Your logic is flawed. As long as there is a Shelley or two or three in the league, Boog is doing something of importance.

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11-05-2010, 10:18 AM
  #113
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you are correct

in my opinion, keeping Jody Shelly in check is of little to no importance to the outcome of the game and the safety of our players...like i said before, if he didnt fight Boogey its not like he was going to drop'em with Anisimov or Del Zotto

conversely, keeping the carcillos of the league in check, is of considerable importance as we've seen time and time again....these guys can effectively derail games and hurt players

the boogaards and shellys of the league are highly ineffective against what is currently the most effective style of "goon"

ergo Boogy is doing nothing of importance for this team, and getting paid a considerable chunk of cap space for it
I think the philosophical need for a goon can be bandied about forever. I just don't think its a role you need to fill by committing years and salary to a free agent.

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11-05-2010, 10:23 AM
  #114
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Your logic is flawed. As long as there is a Shelley or two or three in the league, Boog is doing something of importance.
i guess this is an "agree to disagree" situation

as a coach/GM wouldnt concern myself with the league's shellys...IMO their unchecked game is not of enough effect to warrant a roster spot to cancle it out (a highly paid one at that)

id concern myself with carcillos and contribution to other aspects of the game

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11-05-2010, 10:29 AM
  #115
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thats a nice thought and all but its fundamentally flawed

you're making the assumption that a Prust type player is being detered by Shelly...why would prust be anymore detered by shelly than carcillo is by Boogaard?

answer: they're not

and that's precisely my point...the avery's, carcillo's and prusts of the league do not care about the presence of boogaards and shelly's....the culture of the new NHL allows them to elect NOT to fight someone they're pretty sure will pound their skull in
I never said Prust is deterred by Shelley. In fact, I intimated that Prust would step up to the plate if needed (forgive the baseball analogy), but the fact that Boog negates Shelley allows Prust to play a much more purposeful role on the team.

Boog is a heavyweight. He negates the other team's heavyweight. Both teams thus have wasted a roster spot. If the purpose of a "goon" is to fight, why not have the best?

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11-05-2010, 10:35 AM
  #116
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I never said Prust is deterred by Shelley. In fact, I intimated that Prust would step up to the plate if needed (forgive the baseball analogy), but the fact that Boog negates Shelley allows Prust to play a much more purposeful role on the team.

Boog is a heavyweight. He negates the other team's heavyweight. Both teams thus have wasted a roster spot. If the purpose of a "goon" is to fight, why not have the best?
maybe theres something im not getting here so im gonna ask you to explain it a little more

imagine that game without Boogaard in the lineup...can you explain how this effects Prust as your saying above?

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11-05-2010, 10:50 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
maybe theres something im not getting here so im gonna ask you to explain it a little more

imagine that game without Boogaard in the lineup...can you explain how this effects Prust as your saying above?
Shelley is a known heavyweight with great punching power. Prust is a light heavy/middelweight. Shelley has huge wins over guys like Orr and Godard. Shelley goes out and can take runs at Rangers much like Carcillio but Shelley has big advantage with power and experiance in a fight with Prust a hge win or ko can ruin Prust who is one of the better players we have and what if ko'd and out for a extended time? Boogy fights shelley both are legit goons and cancel each other out. Prust is a huge asset to this tea Boogy has a job to do and did it. Now we need the Boyles(his game is up 5 levels but needs to bang more) Dubi score goals not so much banging so far. Did Anyone else notice the snarl Sauer played with ? I liked it

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11-05-2010, 10:54 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Shelley is a known heavyweight with great punching power. Prust is a light heavy/middelweight. Shelley has huge wins over guys like Orr and Godard. Shelley goes out and can take runs at Rangers much like Carcillio but Shelley has big advantage with power and experiance in a fight with Prust a hge win or ko can ruin Prust who is one of the better players we have and what if ko'd and out for a extended time? Boogy fights shelley both are legit goons and cancel each other out. Prust is a huge asset to this tea Boogy has a job to do and did it. Now we need the Boyles(his game is up 5 levels but needs to bang more) Dubi score goals not so much banging so far. Did Anyone else notice the snarl Sauer played with ? I liked it
im not doubting that shelly would pound prust face in if they faught

i guess we disagree on how effective he'd be at the bolded if unaccounted for

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11-05-2010, 11:00 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
im not doubting that shelly would pound prust face in if they faught

i guess we disagree on how effective he'd be at the bolded if unaccounted for
the fact Prust has boogaard backing him allows him to pound Carcillios face with out a worry in the world. Where without Boogy Prust doesn't a get a chance and ends up fighting the much better and bigger shelley

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11-05-2010, 11:11 AM
  #120
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i guess this is an "agree to disagree" situation

as a coach/GM wouldnt concern myself with the league's shellys...IMO their unchecked game is not of enough effect to warrant a roster spot to cancle it out (a highly paid one at that)

id concern myself with carcillos and contribution to other aspects of the game
The last time the Rangers didnt have an enforcer Fedoruk and the Flyers ran around taking runs left and right. If people thought the game last night was rough just look back to that game before Orr came in and knocked Fedoruk out.

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11-05-2010, 11:14 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
maybe theres something im not getting here so im gonna ask you to explain it a little more

imagine that game without Boogaard in the lineup...can you explain how this effects Prust as your saying above?
Guess it's just my opinion that Prust is playing the best hockey of his career while coincidentally not having the role of lead enforcer for the team...as you said earlier, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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11-05-2010, 11:23 AM
  #122
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I think the philosophical need for a goon can be bandied about forever. I just don't think its a role you need to fill by committing years and salary to a free agent.
I'm still waiting for someone to make a convincing argument about why you would ever commit more than $750,000 (if even that much) to a goon, or why you'd ever commit to one for more than a season at a time.

And that's assuming you can make a convincing argument for even having a goon in today's NHL, which is hardly a lock, either.

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11-05-2010, 11:41 AM
  #123
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I'm still waiting for someone to make a convincing argument about why you would ever commit more than $750,000 (if even that much) to a goon, or why you'd ever commit to one for more than a season at a time.
LOL...I've been waiting for years for anyone to provide a logical explanation as to why any athelete is paid more than $1 million per year!!

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11-05-2010, 11:45 AM
  #124
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LOL...I've been waiting for years for anyone to provide a logical explanation as to why any athelete is paid more than $1 million per year!!
That's not really the point I was going for.

Yes, I think we can all agree that athletes are overpaid. Placing that fact aside, in terms of NHL salaries and the current salary cap structure, paying a goon more than $750,000 per season is a gross overpayment and just outright awful budget management. Relatively speaking, the Boogaard signing is right up there with Gomez, Redden, etc. as one of the worst contracts that Sather has ever handed out.

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11-05-2010, 11:48 AM
  #125
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That's not really the point I was going for.

Yes, I think we can all agree that athletes are overpaid. Placing that fact aside, in terms of NHL salaries and the current salary cap structure, paying a goon more than $750,000 per season is a gross overpayment and just outright awful budget management. Relatively speaking, the Boogaard signing is right up there with Gomez, Redden, etc. as one of the worst contracts that Sather has ever handed out.
He is as badly overpaid, relatively speaking. But it doesn't hurt the team as badly.

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