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Old
11-05-2010, 01:27 PM
  #26
CS
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What really matters:

2010-11 TOI/G
Pronger - 23:12
Timonen - 22:01
Coburn - 21:26
Carle - 20:03
Meszaros - 18:13

2009-10 PLAYOFF TOI/G
Pronger - 29:03
Timonen - 26:37
Carle - 25:53
Coburn - 25:09

2009-10 TOI/G
Pronger - 25:55
Carle - 23:23
Timonen - 22:52
Coburn - 21:08

So far from the regular season last year, Meszaros - O'Donnell has eaten:
3 minutes/game from Pronger
1 minute/game from Timonen
3 minutes/game from Carle

So far from the postseason last year, Meszaros - O'Donnell has eaten:
6 minutes/game from Pronger
4.5 minutes/game from Timonen
6 minutes/game from Carle
3.5 minutes/game from Coburn

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11-05-2010, 01:34 PM
  #27
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I think Timonen needs to have some more of those minutes "eaten" personally.

His body type is more susceptible to injury and deterioration and we still have him for 6.33M for the next couple seasons.

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11-05-2010, 01:38 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I have great faith in the fact that mez will soon start hitting the net with his shot. It's stronger than Prongers and thats saying something. You have to realise that he is playing very conservativly on the pp at the moment. I think he doesn't want to make any mistakes.

Once he gets a little more comfortable, the goals will soon start flying in. As for even strength. He is a +3, his partner is O'donnell, and they mainly seem to play with the third and fourth lines. I'm not really expecting a massive offensive output. Having a large +-, stella defensive play and playing with a physical edge is worth $4 mil for the flyers. It's not like we need that 4 mil elsewhere at the moment
Not going to last long on that front... and Holmgren's commitment to spending so much on D is the primary reason Simon Gagne is no longer a Flyer.

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11-05-2010, 01:47 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
I think Timonen needs to have some more of those minutes "eaten" personally.

His body type is more susceptible to injury and deterioration and we still have him for 6.33M for the next couple seasons.
Timonen's TOI/G numbers are a bit inflated because when Pronger was out of the lineup, he was carrying the bulk of the workload.

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11-05-2010, 01:57 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Timonen's TOI/G numbers are a bit inflated because when Pronger was out of the lineup, he was carrying the bulk of the workload.
Well, that or we've had some relatively low stress games of late. He played 25 minutes against Pittsburgh.

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11-05-2010, 02:21 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Well, that or we've had some relatively low stress games of late. He played 25 minutes against Pittsburgh.
Fair enough.

Last night he played 17:00 minutes and Meszaros led defensemen with 21:48.

The reason why Meszaros' TOI/G numbers aren't up there with the other 4 is because he only played 9:06 against the Islanders.


Last edited by CS: 11-05-2010 at 02:26 PM.
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11-05-2010, 04:06 PM
  #32
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I never understood this... hmm... You CANNOT hold Mozzarella accountable for his contract. "He's playing good, but not up to that contract!' and all this. Come on. Hate the GM or the agent, but don't nitpick what Mesz has done, hes been one of the most solid defenders on the team.

I get the feeling this guy is gonna be whipping boy much like Gauthier became due to his contract (ok bad comparison since ol' D.G. was horrid!). But everyone was just hating and blasting him nonstop always bringing up his outlandish contract. Don't hate him for it, hate the person who gave it to him. Call out his play, not his money.

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11-05-2010, 04:36 PM
  #33
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Agreed. Meszaros's play has been great so far. I think having less pressure than he did in Tampa and playing with veterans like Kimmo Pronger has helped tremendously. Even playing with O'Donnell has helped a lot. Hope he keeps up the great play throughout the season and in the playoffs.

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11-05-2010, 05:13 PM
  #34
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are you satisfied with his performance?

after the season 2005/2006 he was touted as a promising star-calibre dman, but his progress slowed... how he looks like in Philly jersey?
I have been impressed with his game to date. Very steady. No complaints here.

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11-05-2010, 07:44 PM
  #35
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the only guy we signed during the offseason who's play im not happy with is Shelley..

everyone else is doing fine under Lavi's system.. sure some guys are taking longer to "come around" then others.. but no one is dead weight i think, except for Jody Shelley.. he has literaly done nothing for this team since arriving..

even when he fights, he ends up being someones punching bag.. such a waste of cap space..

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11-06-2010, 12:41 AM
  #36
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What do you guys think of his offensive potential this season? I personally thought he'd rebound and be back to his Ottawa PP specialist form by the trade deadline but so far I haven't seen too much of that from him. He's been consistent in the defensive zone and looks worlds better than his Tampa Bay play but he hasn't seemed to return to the form that made him an impressive young defenseman in Ottawa. Overall though I think it was a super smart pickup by Holmgren as Meszaros is a defenseman who will blossom on a team like the Flyers.

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11-06-2010, 03:13 AM
  #37
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wait for Matt Walker to come back and take those minutes from Meszaros

i kid, i kid.

hes been solid this year. wasnt sure what to think when we got him. Still think 4 million is too much for him, but I cannot complain about his game right now.

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11-06-2010, 05:15 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Not going to last long on that front... and Holmgren's commitment to spending so much on D is the primary reason Simon Gagne is no longer a Flyer.
Would you really want Gagne on the team at the moment. You think JVR is snake bitten, check out ol Gagne's stats

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11-06-2010, 05:28 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Would you really want Gagne on the team at the moment. You think JVR is snake bitten, check out ol Gagne's stats
I think that is more due to the fact that he is on a new team and has to make adjustments. If Gags was on the Flyers we cannot say for sure that he would have the same issues, or even be injured.

That said, with our improved D, I think we can get away with not having great two way players.

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11-06-2010, 05:54 AM
  #40
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I think that is more due to the fact that he is on a new team and has to make adjustments. If Gags was on the Flyers we cannot say for sure that he would have the same issues, or even be injured.

That said, with our improved D, I think we can get away with not having great two way players.
Thats true, but i just have the feeling the flyers traded Gagne for a reason. Especially for such a **** return.

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11-06-2010, 06:25 AM
  #41
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Mezzer has shown us that when he isn't relied on to be one of the best defenseman on the team he can really shine. Same could be said for Carle and to a lesser extent Coburn. I think we will see the true value of Meszaros if Timonen or Pronger misses significant time. He will probably have to be the one to fill their roles.

I was critical of him in the early part of the year. The first 4 games or so. I thought he was underperforming for someone making 4M a season. I think he has been improving, getting more comfortable with his teammates and becoming more comfortable in Laviolettes system. I saw some hesitation out of him in the early going. Not so much now. He is skating hard, taking the body, and making quick decisions with the puck. I think there is still room for improvement in his game offensively and I hope that he will find it, he has a good point shot but still hasn't found goals. I think that will change for him. I am pleased with what I see and I think he will get better as the season goes forward.

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11-06-2010, 08:01 AM
  #42
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He's been good and given the opportunity, I think he could live up to the 4 mill contract, but right now, he's a 3rd pairing guy that's making a ton of cash.

Based on the first 13 games though, I'd rather keep him than Carle or Coburn.

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11-06-2010, 09:25 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan808 View Post
Mezzer has shown us that when he isn't relied on to be one of the best defenseman on the team he can really shine. Same could be said for Carle and to a lesser extent Coburn. I think we will see the true value of Meszaros if Timonen or Pronger misses significant time. He will probably have to be the one to fill their roles.

I was critical of him in the early part of the year. The first 4 games or so. I thought he was underperforming for someone making 4M a season. I think he has been improving, getting more comfortable with his teammates and becoming more comfortable in Laviolettes system. I saw some hesitation out of him in the early going. Not so much now. He is skating hard, taking the body, and making quick decisions with the puck. I think there is still room for improvement in his game offensively and I hope that he will find it, he has a good point shot but still hasn't found goals. I think that will change for him. I am pleased with what I see and I think he will get better as the season goes forward.



Great post. You've seen pretty much the exact same Mez that I've been watching.

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11-06-2010, 10:52 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CavemanLawyer View Post
I never understood this... hmm... You CANNOT hold Mozzarella accountable for his contract. "He's playing good, but not up to that contract!' and all this. Come on. Hate the GM or the agent, but don't nitpick what Mesz has done, hes been one of the most solid defenders on the team.

I get the feeling this guy is gonna be whipping boy much like Gauthier became due to his contract (ok bad comparison since ol' D.G. was horrid!). But everyone was just hating and blasting him nonstop always bringing up his outlandish contract. Don't hate him for it, hate the person who gave it to him. Call out his play, not his money.
Ah, you have to account for the cost of the player against his production under the salary cap. It's just the way it is. You cannot ignore contracts, because they have direct impact on what you can afford with other players, and thus the quality of the team you can construct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Would you really want Gagne on the team at the moment. You think JVR is snake bitten, check out ol Gagne's stats
Yes, I would LOVE to have Gagne on this team.

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11-06-2010, 10:55 AM
  #45
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Thats true, but i just have the feeling the flyers traded Gagne for a reason. Especially for such a **** return.
They traded him because he's become an injury prone player and unreliable because of that. In two of the last 4 years he has not justified his contract... and we weren't going to re-sign him next year. However, Gagne proved down the stretch last year and in the playoffs how good a player he still can be.

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11-06-2010, 10:58 AM
  #46
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One thing Flyers have to keep a steady eye on is Prong's and Timo's age .. and also Timo's hi salary for 2 years.

Does anyone think Timo will be re-upped in 2 years at the same salary? No, dont think so.

Does anyone think Prongs will be as good as he is in 2 years? Hardly.

So in two years Flyers will need to bring in two really good Dmen to replace Timo and supplement a deteriorating Prongs.

There are 2 ways they can do this:

1. Spend Timo's salary and try to grab a star Dman if available at the time, OR

2. Train and coach and improve all of Carle, Mesz, and Coburn for two years ...and see if they can improve by then to the point where they can collectively or individually replace Timo and supplement a deteriorated Pronger.

IMHO, i think Step 2 is better than bringing in a brand new star Dman and seeing if he meshes etc. Leafs experience with Phaneuf and Komi, and even Flames experience with JBo shows that good star Dmen on one team often deteriorate on another.

I think if Flyers can keep all three of Carle Mesz and Coburn for 2 years and then make decisions ... that would be a good long term defense strategy.

Am i wrong or off base here?

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11-06-2010, 11:24 AM
  #47
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wait for Matt Walker to come back and take those minutes from Meszaros.
You mean

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11-06-2010, 05:31 PM
  #48
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You mean
WOW!

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