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Juniors: for dummies

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Old
11-05-2010, 09:58 PM
  #1
NYGBleedBlueNYR
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Juniors: for dummies

Can you guys help me with a basic understanding of the different jr leagues? Any defining characteristics? What's better or worse? I see CHL, WHL OHL QMHL maybe more and really don't know the difference.

In america what do we have? USHL & NAHL? Worth watching? There's a nahl team that just started up about 20min away.

What's echl?

Some basic questions too. Do the players go to school? Are they drafted?

All help greatly appreciated as I'm very new to hockey & would like to have a better understanding of the jr leagues

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11-05-2010, 10:01 PM
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frankthefrowner
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Echl is just a lower level minor league like the ahl.

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11-05-2010, 11:38 PM
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Synergy27
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_hockey

Not addressed in that article is the USNTDP, where many high-end junior aged U.S. born players train together and play against NCAA teams.

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11-05-2010, 11:45 PM
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SERE 24
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The CHL is the Canadian Hockey League. Basically Canadian juniors. It encompasses the OHL, WHL and QMJHL; they are all parts of the CHL. None of the leagues are "better" than each other; they all have a lot of kids drafted into the NHL and are relatively similar in compete level. The WHL is known to be grittier and produce a lot of power forwards and hardnosed kids. There is a CHL entry draft (or individual drafts for the leagues, but same concept), just as their is an NHL draft. Kids are frequently drafted from the CHL and if they do not make their NHL club immediately, even if they sign a pro contract, they return to play in the CHL until they are 20, at which point they would play for the AHL club. I believe the Memorial Cup is the championship for the entire CHL and does not keep the leagues separate for the tournament, but I am not sure.

The AHL is the minors to the NHL. The ECHL is a step down from the AHL... kind of like the minors to the minors. Stuff like the USHL is a step down further.

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11-05-2010, 11:49 PM
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The CHL is the conglomerate of the three sub leagues: WHL, OHL, QMJHL. Based on Province/location.

WHL (Western Hockey League) west.
OHL (Ontario Hockey League) central.
QMJHL (Quebec Major Junior Hockey League) east.

Think of it like MLB (Major League Baseball). MLB is the conglomerate of the two sub leagues (American League and National League).

Each league has its own standings, regular season, playoffs, and Champions.

The league Champions (and a couple extra teams) qualify for the Memorial Cup tournament. The Memorial Cup Champions are the true CHL Champs.

The AHL (American Hockey League) is the equivalent to AAA in baseball. Its a step below the NHL. And is considered Pro (like AAA in baseball).

The ECHL is a step below the AHL. It, too, is considered Pro. But its not as high on the scale as the AHL.

The USHL is kind of like Canadian Juniors. Except, its for a younger age group of players I believe. Its a great developmental league for players looking to go to Canadian Juniors or NCAA College Hockey.

NCAA and CHL are on par. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

There is also the USNTDP (United States National Team Development Program). Which is a National team.

There are many developmental leagues.

The most revered of all is the OHL. Why? Who knows, but they produce a lot of NHL players.

Are any really better then the other? Its all debatable. In the end it comes down to the individual player, their level of talent, commitment, and where they want to play.

There are probably an even greater number of leagues in Europe, each with their own "junior clubs". SEL, SM Liiga, KHL(used to be RSL), so on.

And still more in North America at the "grass roots" levels.

The biggest stage for all of the developmental leagues is the annual(yearly) World Junior Championship international tournament U-20 (players under 20 years of age). Overseen by the IIHF (International Ice Hockey Federation). Featuring the top young players from each country, in about a month long tournament, similar to the Olympics.

There are also similar tournaments for different age groups like U-17 (under 17 years of age) for example.

Then for both Pros and "amateurs" is the World Championships. Again like the Olympics. Overseen by the IIHF.

And the mother of all international tournaments is the Olympics. Not associated with the IIHF, I believe, but the Olympic Committee.

The NHL is the top Pro hockey league in the world. With the best players in the world.

Hopefully this helps!

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11-06-2010, 12:07 AM
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SERE 24
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Good post. Only thing I would say about NCAA being "on par" with Canadian juniors is that most people are already drafted OUT of Canadian juniors by an NHL team by the time they are 18; you only start playing NCAA at 18. My good buddy Tim Kunes played US juniors from 15-18 and was drafted in the 5th round by Carolina while he was 18, the summer BEFORE he began playing at Boston College. He went to BC for four years and never signed with the Canes and is now trying to get picked up by a team in the Elitserien.

So, you can stay in juniors until you are 20, for what are considered overage seasons, but typically, if you are going to the NHL, you are already drafted by the time you are 18. For college, you are just starting when you are 18 and are usually either drafted the summer before your freshman year or the summer after.

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11-06-2010, 12:55 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
The CHL is the conglomerate of the three sub leagues: WHL, OHL, QMJHL. Based on Province/location.

WHL (Western Hockey League) west.
OHL (Ontario Hockey League) central.
QMJHL (Quebec Major Junior Hockey League) east.

Think of it like MLB (Major League Baseball). MLB is the conglomerate of the two sub leagues (American League and National League).

Each league has its own standings, regular season, playoffs, and Champions.

The league Champions (and a couple extra teams) qualify for the Memorial Cup tournament. The Memorial Cup Champions are the true CHL Champs.

The AHL (American Hockey League) is the equivalent to AAA in baseball. Its a step below the NHL. And is considered Pro (like AAA in baseball).

The ECHL is a step below the AHL. It, too, is considered Pro. But its not as high on the scale as the AHL.

The USHL is kind of like Canadian Juniors. Except, its for a younger age group of players I believe. Its a great developmental league for players looking to go to Canadian Juniors or NCAA College Hockey.

NCAA and CHL are on par. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

There is also the USNTDP (United States National Team Development Program). Which is a National team.

There are many developmental leagues.

The most revered of all is the OHL. Why? Who knows, but they produce a lot of NHL players.

Are any really better then the other? Its all debatable. In the end it comes down to the individual player, their level of talent, commitment, and where they want to play.

There are probably an even greater number of leagues in Europe, each with their own "junior clubs". SEL, SM Liiga, KHL(used to be RSL), so on.

And still more in North America at the "grass roots" levels.

The biggest stage for all of the developmental leagues is the annual(yearly) World Junior Championship international tournament U-20 (players under 20 years of age). Overseen by the IIHF (International Ice Hockey Federation). Featuring the top young players from each country, in about a month long tournament, similar to the Olympics.

There are also similar tournaments for different age groups like U-17 (under 17 years of age) for example.

Then for both Pros and "amateurs" is the World Championships. Again like the Olympics. Overseen by the IIHF.

And the mother of all international tournaments is the Olympics. Not associated with the IIHF, I believe, but the Olympic Committee.

The NHL is the top Pro hockey league in the world. With the best players in the world.

Hopefully this helps!

if i remember correctly ushl is 16-20 what is enticing to US born players about the ushl is that it wont cost the player his amateur status....some players (i think bobby sanguietti did this) will play in the ushl for a year or two while the decide if they would rather play ncaa or chl. once a player players in the chl the ncaa recognizes them as a pro and they are no longer eligible to play college hockey in the USA

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11-06-2010, 12:59 AM
  #8
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You'll also occasionally notice someone mention a different CHL--the Central Hockey League. That league is directly below the ECHL. We have a couple prospects in the CHL, but in all honesty, that's a hockey graveyard. Once you've hit the CHL, you can pretty much kiss your NHL chances goodbye.

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11-06-2010, 12:59 AM
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SERE 24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcg11 View Post
if i remember correctly ushl is 16-20 what is enticing to US born players about the ushl is that it wont cost the player his amateur status....some players (i think bobby sanguietti did this) will play in the ushl for a year or two while the decide if they would rather play ncaa or chl. once a player players in the chl the ncaa recognizes them as a pro and they are no longer eligible to play college hockey in the USA
16-17 is already late to go into the CHL, so I don't know if anyone would play a year or two in the USHL before going to the CHL. I could be wrong, but it just doesn't make sense really.

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11-06-2010, 01:53 AM
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rmcg11
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Originally Posted by Zetterqvist24 View Post
16-17 is already late to go into the CHL, so I don't know if anyone would play a year or two in the USHL before going to the CHL. I could be wrong, but it just doesn't make sense really.
i was wrong about sanguetti did a little bit of reseach and John Carlson, Bryce Lampman, Kurt Sauer, Jarred Tinordi, Derek Forbort, and Jack Campbell are examples of players that went onto play in the chl from the ushl (USNDT is part of the USHL). carlson started in the OHL at 18. its not common but it does happen.

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11-06-2010, 02:05 AM
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Swept In Seven
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The OHL is full of 17-18 year olds that league is full of young talent

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11-06-2010, 02:27 AM
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SERE 24
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Originally Posted by AJBergy86 View Post
The OHL is full of 17-18 year olds that league is full of young talent
Yeah, no denying that, I just meant it's old to start in the CHL at that age, not to be there.

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11-06-2010, 08:02 PM
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Thanks a ton guys!!!!!

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11-06-2010, 11:08 PM
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Another thing NCAA vs CHL, is if a player goes the NCAA route, they can go pro at any time they wish and be eligible to play in the AHL.

CHL players that were drafted in the CHL draft that had no Pro experience prior to being drafted in the CHL, are not eligible for the AHL until they're 20 years old.

So, let's say a CHL player makes an NHL roster out of training camp to start the season, the NHL team has a short window (forget how many games off the top of my head) to determine if they're ready for the NHL. The player can't be sent to the AHL. So its either stick it out in the NHL or go back to the CHL... Unless, they were a Pro elsewhere before playing in the CHL. For example in Europe (SEL, KHL, SM Liiga, and so on).

A lot of odd rules and regulations. Meant to protect the CHL teams from losing their star players.

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11-07-2010, 05:28 AM
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Generally speaking the USHL is a college feeder system.

Also it should be said that CHL teams often poach players out of the US College leagues for a variety of reasons--not enough playing time, not getting along with the coach, problems keeping up with their classes, etc. etc. CHL teams play more NHL like schedules--72 game seasons plus 4 out of 7 playoff series.

There are also Canadian leagues such as the AJHL and BCHL and numerous Ontario leagues which are very competitive and in which a Canadian player can maintain their eligibility to garner an NCAA scholarship. A player playing in the CHL has more or less closed the door on that option as the NCAA considers CHL players to be ineligible because they get spending and/or expense money from their teams.

As for the CHL the OHL and WHL produce more players than the QMJHL. The Quebec league may be the best at producing goaltenders and has produced some spectacular offensive players like Lemieux and Crosby. Generally I'd give the OHL a narrow edge over the WHL--both usually better than the QMJHL though.

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11-07-2010, 08:10 AM
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Wait so these guys in the CHL start playing 68 game seasons when they are 16..... how do they finish high school? Do they just get an equivalency/home tutor or what?

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11-07-2010, 10:22 AM
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Most CHL players have to leave home and billet whereever they go. Generally (I believe) if you play for Moose Jaw (for instance) you're going to the same high school with your other teammates. You're taking similar classes, you're making the same roadtrips and there is tutoring involved. The CHL has a program to help pay players--who don't turn pro--for college afterwards. Canadian universities many of which have hockey programs recruit heavily from CHL teams. They do not have the severe restrictions towards CHL players that the NCAA has. That's happened with some Ranger draftees. Eric Hunter is one.

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