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Maroon is being removed from the organization (Holmgren quoted, post #101)

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Old
11-01-2010, 03:53 PM
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Yeah but Knuble knew how to use his hands down low. There might be an argument that Maroon would be better served to embrace that ideology than strive to become a guy with true top-6 legs.
Yeah if Maroon changed his game around he could have been a Knuble type guy but thats not how he plays.

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11-01-2010, 03:54 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
Given the expansion of the ***** list, I'm assuming it's about partying, showing up hung over, etc. Would that be fair?
thats something that could be connected to maroons "weight issue" if hes a big beer drinker, also explains why they were hesitant to call him up

another thing being maroon kalinski and legein all have a decent case to be made that the big club has intentionally extended their time on the phantoms. all are pretty well regarded prospects who have seen the flyers go in other directions for the spot. zherdev and shelly this offseason and the betts resigning last year. how hard do you hafta shaft a guy before he realises hes not in the plans?

maroon went and played inline this summer and maybe he realised hockey can be fun, he came back and it was all work work work, which is fine if your a prospect but when all the signs say otherwise do you want to committ to that to be an ahl veteran?

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11-01-2010, 04:01 PM
  #203
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I think we need to lay off the partying angle. It seems far more probable at this point there's bigger issues than partying in Adirondack. In addition, where/how the hell do you party in AHL cities?

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11-01-2010, 04:24 PM
  #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
I'm mostly pissed because it sounds like Holmgren doesn't even know what's going or what's gone on -- he says there was "probably a pattern" of incidents that led to this. He was only there watching for the weekend. It's not as if he'd been there most or all of the year.

This situation just makes me even more disgusted with the FO, which I didn't really think was even possible at this point.
I think Holmgren saying "probably" was just him being wishy washy. I think he knows. In Panaccio's column he mentions Holmgren said the reason why the negotiations with Carter's agent started off slow was because he had to deal with a lot of crap. Panaccio says Holmgren had been worried about what to do with Maroon.

BTW Holmgren made the decision before the weekend.

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11-01-2010, 07:25 PM
  #205
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its has been 3 days and he hasnt been moved yet? A talent like Maroon you would think teams would be knocking down doors, to take a chance on a top 9 nhl player who isnt even in the nhl yet,i mean even Shooter said he was a good kid. I bet Shooter has placed a high value on him and wont just let him go.

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11-02-2010, 11:16 AM
  #206
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11-07-2010, 12:51 AM
  #207
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Didn't see anything posted about this lately. What's the latest?

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11-07-2010, 01:20 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by BlueSinceBirth View Post
Didn't see anything posted about this lately. What's the latest?
All's quiet. I'm a little curious as to what's going on myself.

There are two possibilities:
A) He gets dealt for peanuts.
B) He is a free-agent this summer (RFA) at the end of his contract and goes elsewhere.

Either way it's a shame. I wish him the best wherever he ends up. I have to say I was really looking forward to seeing him in orange and black.

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11-07-2010, 06:31 AM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
All's quiet. I'm a little curious as to what's going on myself.

There are two possibilities:
A) He gets dealt for peanuts.
B) He is a free-agent this summer (RFA) at the end of his contract and goes elsewhere.

Either way it's a shame. I wish him the best wherever he ends up. I have to say I was really looking forward to seeing him in orange and black.
you like preseason games that much? couldnt help myself. There are also more than 2 possibilities. The longer this drags without any movement increases the chances they make amends. No reason at all he shouldn't have been dealt or loaned out at this point, why the wait?

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11-07-2010, 07:00 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
you like preseason games that much? couldnt help myself. There are also more than 2 possibilities. The longer this drags without any movement increases the chances they make amends. No reason at all he shouldn't have been dealt or loaned out at this point, why the wait?
if a coaching change is in the cards this could be a way for holmgren to save face by saying you cant turn on the coach regardless of how ****** he is but at the same time aknowlodging the fact that hes well Idiot Stick

or the partying angle where he comes back after 28 days or so with a new and improved attitude and starts mentioning his higher power in interviews

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11-07-2010, 07:09 AM
  #211
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Is it just me or does it seem pretty short sighted to come out and say that the organization is on the outs with a player? I don't think GMs like Ken Holland would say that as it makes the player's value worthless. Why couldn't Holmgren just trade the guy and then later say why?

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11-07-2010, 08:04 AM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
All's quiet. I'm a little curious as to what's going on myself.

There are two possibilities:
A) He gets dealt for peanuts.
B) He is a free-agent this summer (RFA) at the end of his contract and goes elsewhere.

Either way it's a shame. I wish him the best wherever he ends up. I have to say I was really looking forward to seeing him in orange and black.
It was clear even with pre-season that it was never going to happen. Difference has already been given to the new guys on the Phantoms, at least up front. After a poor year last year, he was never getting a shot. Having had two years on the Phantoms before this year, his chance apparently came and went.

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11-07-2010, 08:09 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
Is it just me or does it seem pretty short sighted to come out and say that the organization is on the outs with a player? I don't think GMs like Ken Holland would say that as it makes the player's value worthless. Why couldn't Holmgren just trade the guy and then later say why?
because that is not in good faith to move a guy who has issues without telling the other party involved. He could have privately spoke with a gm and made hims aware of what was going on though. Now he could have gone about a little differently. However i believe he did it this way to send a message to all the guys that playtime is over. He still hasnt been moved, so teams must not be that interested imo.

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11-07-2010, 08:31 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
It was clear even with pre-season that it was never going to happen. Difference has already been given to the new guys on the Phantoms, at least up front. After a poor year last year, he was never getting a shot. Having had two years on the Phantoms before this year, his chance apparently came and went.
I'm not so sure.

Unless this was a huge blunder (well in a different way than it already is now), the administration should've realized the possible circumstances behind Maroon's regression, i.e. injuries and other issues.

If Hartnell or Coburn can get a free ride after a terrible year in that they aren't dumped or moved, then why would they give up a 22/23-year-old guy who is under contract for half a mil just because of one season of poor play, let alone the fact that he battled through injuries?

I'm a bit skeptical that Maroon would have never gotten a shot. I think the deciding factor in the end was in fact this supposed locker room upheaval, that may or may not have been his fault based on the information about the incident which is just coming to light now.

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11-07-2010, 08:41 AM
  #215
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This certainly is disappointing, I was rooting for him. Oh well, in the end I hope whatever happens, happens for the best for him and the oganization.

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Old
11-07-2010, 08:50 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I'm not so sure.

Unless this was a huge blunder (well in a different way than it already is now), the administration should've realized the possible circumstances behind Maroon's regression, i.e. injuries and other issues.

If Hartnell or Coburn can get a free ride after a terrible year in that they aren't dumped or moved, then why would they give up a 22/23-year-old guy who is under contract for half a mil just because of one season of poor play, let alone the fact that he battled through injuries?

I'm a bit skeptical that Maroon would have never gotten a shot. I think the deciding factor in the end was in fact this supposed locker room upheaval, that may or may not have been his fault based on the information about the incident which is just coming to light now.
what new information?

Question for you then, do you think Shooter is telling a lie when he said there has been a pattern of unacceptable behavior and he has already been talked too?

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11-09-2010, 09:16 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Nodl is a player in our top 9 next year unless something drastic happens between now and then. That's pretty much set in stone regardless of how many people here complain about him.

That said:

xxxxxxxxxx - Richards (5.75) - xxxxxxxxxx
Hartnell (4.20) - Briere (6.50) - xxxxxxxxxx
vanRiemsdyk (0.88) - xxxxxxxxxx - xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx - Betts (0.70) - Shelley (1.10)
xxxxxxxxxx

Pronger (4.92) - Carle (3.44)
Timonen (6.33) - Coburn (3.20)
Meszaros (4.00) - xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxx

Bobrovsky (0.90)
xxxxxxxxxx

Total: 41.92
Cap: 59.40
Space: 17.48

So then we re-sign or call-up specific players (bold indicates re-signed player/underline indicates call-up):

Powe (1.00) - Richards (5.75) - xxxxxxxxxx
Hartnell (4.20) - Briere (6.50) - xxxxxxxxxx
vanRiemsdyk (0.88) - xxxxxxxxxx - Nodl (1.00)
Kalinski (0.70) - Betts (0.70) - Shelley (1.10)
xxxxxxxxxx

Pronger (4.92) - Carle (3.44)
Timonen (6.33) - Coburn (3.20)
Meszaros (4.00) - Gustafsson/Lehtivuori (0.90)
xxxxxxxxxx

Bobrovsky (0.90)
xxxxxxxxxx

Total: 45.52
Cap: 59.40
Space: 13.88

That leaves 13.88 for Giroux, Carter, Leino, and extra players (13th F, 7th D, back-up).

So let's say we get best case scenario: Carter for a Richards-esque contract, Giroux at under 4.00m, and Leino comes just under that.

Powe (1.00) - Richards (5.75) - Giroux (3.50)
Hartnell (4.20) - Briere (6.50) - Leino (3.00)
vanRiemsdyk (0.88) - Carter (5.75) - Nodl (1.00)
Kalinski (0.70) - Betts (0.70) - Shelley (1.10)
xxxxxxxxxx

Pronger (4.92) - Carle (3.44)
Timonen (6.33) - Coburn (3.20)
Meszaros (4.00) - Gustafsson/Lehtivuori (0.90)
xxxxxxxxxx

Bobrovsky (0.90)
xxxxxxxxxx

Total: 57.77
Cap: 59.40
Space: 1.63

If the cap does not go up, that leaves 1.63m for two or three players. That's not perfect, but it's doable I guess.

The reason I did this little experiment is because, we can have the EXACT SAME LINEUP as we had in the last couple of games going into next year with the exception of Gustafsson for O'Donnell and Kalinski for Carcillo.

Dealing with Walker and Leighton's contracts is another matter, but we're not in desperate need just yet.

So, no this draft is not make-it/break-it. We have a lot of strong defensive prospects working towards the NHL, and we have our forward core set up long-term.

In a few years, when Hartnell and Timonen's contracts are ready to expire, if we don't have a little something close to ready in the pool, then we might be in trouble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Yep, but I purposely left out the 13th, 7th, and back-up.

We're in good shape for a few years to come, especially on the blueline...I mean:

Coburn - Carle
Meszaros - Lehtivuori
Marshall - Gustafsson
Bartulis - Bourdon

Not too shabby when you think about the fact that Coburn, Meszaros, and Carle are still getting better. You throw in a strong vet on the blueline, and we still have a fairly strong defense even without Pronger/Timonen in a few years. Not best in the NHL, but pretty damn good.

Now we need to go back to drafting forwards.
We have some defensive prospects, but are any of them really top 3 potential guys?? I agree our forward prospects are non-existant at this point, especially top 6, but we have a number of bottom 6 guys.....I would go first round dman, and then mostly forwards in draft.

As for the cap, walker and Zherdev being gone frees up money. I doubt we see both Shelley and Carcillo going forward so that iwll b and the option is always there to move someone like Carle.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
??? Also the reason we have had 0 2nd round picks in like the last 4 years?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
We've gone 3 straight years without a 1st + the trades of Sbisa and Downie.
We will have gone 5 straight years without a 2nd.
Cant remember, do we have a first this year or did that go in Pronger trade?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradrich99 View Post
There seems to be a line of thinking that STL may be a good destination for Maroon. He is from there and has a close relationship with some of the Blues alumni, especially Kelly Chase. It is thought that Chase and Asst Coach Scott Mellanby have the right approach to get through to him. Chase has worked with him a lot in the past and knows him well.
Maybe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
It's sad that Maroon's departure is even all that big of a deal. A well-run organization would never have a player like Maroon as their blue chip prospect.

I generally find it laughable how much discussion some of these guys get on the board. Nodl, Maroon, Legein, Kalinski, Matsumoto, etc... all of them are just 3rd/4th line guys at best (and like you've noted above, a guy like Powe is both proven AND cheaper.) It's not like we have any quality. None of them are anything that can't be had for $1M during the offseason.
Nodl has been playing very well, he may end up being a 3rd liner, but a damn good one....those players are just as important to a team as anyone. I was one of the few that has been sticking by this guy over the years, most gave up on him after his first 10 games in the NHL

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDrizzle81 View Post
This certainly is disappointing, I was rooting for him. Oh well, in the end I hope whatever happens, happens for the best for him and the oganization.
Me too....hope we learn more soon.

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Old
11-09-2010, 09:30 AM
  #218
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We do have a first this year. We traded our 1st during the draft to get Pronger (so prior to this past season), as well as our next 1st (just after this past season).

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