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The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Current bordeline Hall of Famers (=>30 y.o.)

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Old
11-05-2010, 01:48 AM
  #76
Ishdul
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It's worthless comparing him to Naslund in that sense. Naslund easily had a HHOF level peak but nowhere near the longevity that Alfredsson had.

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Old
11-06-2010, 05:55 PM
  #77
finchster
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Originally Posted by Ishdul View Post
It's worthless comparing him to Naslund in that sense. Naslund easily had a HHOF level peak but nowhere near the longevity that Alfredsson had.
Even so, Naslund was considered the best player at his position for a period of time and I wouldn't send him to the HHOF. Alfredsson was never considered the best at his position, at any period of time. Look at Alfredsson's award voting record, it isn't great.

Selke
20th 02-03
4th 05-06
11th 06-07
10th 07-08
38th 08-09
15th 09-10

RW All-Star
9th 02-03
4th 03-04
2nd 05-06
7th 06-07
3rd 07-08
9th 08-09
6th 09-10

Hart
17th 03-04
5th 05-06
16th 06-07
16th 07-08

I don't think one elite season and a few good seasons should be enough to get someone in the HHOF.

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Old
11-06-2010, 09:37 PM
  #78
seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finchster View Post
Even so, Naslund was considered the best player at his position for a period of time and I wouldn't send him to the HHOF. Alfredsson was never considered the best at his position, at any period of time. Look at Alfredsson's award voting record, it isn't great.

Selke
20th 02-03
4th 05-06
11th 06-07
10th 07-08
38th 08-09
15th 09-10

RW All-Star
9th 02-03
4th 03-04
2nd 05-06
7th 06-07
3rd 07-08
9th 08-09
6th 09-10

Hart
17th 03-04
5th 05-06
16th 06-07
16th 07-08

I don't think one elite season and a few good seasons should be enough to get someone in the HHOF.
except his 2nd-7th-best seasons stack up well compared to many of his contemporaries. You don't have to think Alfie is hall-worthy, but if you don't, you should admit that very, very few forwards whose careers started in 1993 and later, deserve it.

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Old
11-06-2010, 10:14 PM
  #79
finchster
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
except his 2nd-7th-best seasons stack up well compared to many of his contemporaries. You don't have to think Alfie is hall-worthy, but if you don't, you should admit that very, very few forwards whose careers started in 1993 and later, deserve it.
Don't you think players that entered the NHL in the 90's lacked top end talent, and many of the players that did have it, unfortunatly suffered injuries that slowed their career?

Yes, very few players who started after 1993 deserve it, but it seems like more players entering the NHL in recent years will deserve it

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Old
11-06-2010, 10:29 PM
  #80
seventieslord
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Don't you think players that entered the NHL in the 90's lacked top end talent, and many of the players that did have it, unfortunatly suffered injuries that slowed their career?

Yes, very few players who started after 1993 deserve it, but it seems like more players entering the NHL in recent years will deserve it
Yes and no - I think that the dead puck era in particular gets a bad rap but the fact that it was harder to stand out doesn't mean it was an era of bums - more likely an era of parity. The standard for what constitutes "standing out" in times like that, just needs to be re-evaluated, IMO.

Crosby and Ovechkin are not standing out in the way Beliveau and Hull did, but if they carry on the way they are, they'll likely be regarded just as highly one day, and that's because of the competitive balance of the league in general, and among the top-end talents.

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Old
11-06-2010, 11:12 PM
  #81
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I think that Alfredsson is close, especially if we include his international play which has been excellent.

He is still playing at quite a high level and he might have another 3 seasons left in him, including this years.

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Old
11-06-2010, 11:48 PM
  #82
finchster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Crosby and Ovechkin are not standing out in the way Beliveau and Hull did, but if they carry on the way they are, they'll likely be regarded just as highly one day, and that's because of the competitive balance of the league in general, and among the top-end talents.
I disagree, Ovechkin is dominating in a way that Hull did at the same point in their careers. Last season Ovechkin was 24, so let's judge Hull and Ovechkin by what they have done by age 24.

Ovechkin has more top ten goal finishes,
Ovechkin (3,4,1,1,3) Hull (1,5,1,6)

Hull has a better margin of goal scoring win.
61-62 Hull 34%
07-08 Ovechkin 17%

Hull has one more Art Ross, but Ovechkin has one more top ten points finish and all of Ovechkin's finishes are top three
Hull (1,1,9) Ovechkin (3,1,2,2)

Ovechkin has a better Hart voting record
Ovechkin, 05-06 6th, 07-08 1st, 08-09 1st, 09-10 2nd
Hull, 59-60 2nd, 62-63 3rd

But Hull did have better competition, lost to Howe in 60 and Plante and Harvey in 63

Hull didn’t hit full stride until he was about 27, but at this point in their careers Ovechkin is dominating at a level not seen since Hull from a winger. Whether or not Ovechkin can keep it up is a different question.

Sorry to get off on a tangent haha

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Old
11-07-2010, 04:40 AM
  #83
Sens Rule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finchster View Post
Since 2000-01 (30 teams) twelve different players had three top ten finishes. Some players are redundant (Sakic for example had three more after 2000-01, Jagr four etc), so while they don’t grow on trees, twelve players in total and ten new players in 9 seasons isn’t an elite club, more like winning an individual award.

Here are the points since 2000-01.

Joe Thornton (3,1,2,5,8)
Alex Ovechkin (3,1,2,2)
Sidney Crosby (6, 1,3,2)
Ilya Kovalchuck (2,8,10,6)
Jarome Iginla (1,3,8)
Martin St Louis (1,5,6)
Markus Naslund (2,2,4)
Dany Heatley (9,4,4)
Daniel Alfredsson (7,4,9)
Marc Savard (9, 9, 9)

Except Marc Savard, Alfredsson has the lowest total finishes out of everyone on this list. Again except for Marc Savard, Alfredsson has the fewest individual accolades. I would agree, most on that list are going to the HHOF, but would you put Markus Naslund or Marc Savard in the HHOF? I wouldn’t, three top ten finishes is good, it is not “elite” imo.

Alfredsson isn't a lock right now in my mind, but his career isn't over yet.
However Alfredsson is clearly a better player than Heatley, Savard, Naslund and debatably Kovalchuk because he is a great 2 way player in addition to finishing top ten in points. Alfredsson was getting some Selke votes in some of those years he was top 10 in points.

One argument for Alfredsson is that Heatley is going in the Hall if he keeps up his scoring pace. Heatley's best years were in Ottawa on the Pizza line and to almost everyone who watched that line for any length of time Alfredsson was the best and most important player on that line. So if Heatley is a HHOFer and his best years are spent on a line with someone better who is in his mid-30's at the time that guy must too be a HHOFer.

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Old
11-07-2010, 12:39 PM
  #84
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Forsberg should not get in.
Care to elaborate or are you just one of those random Forsberg haters?

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