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Old
11-07-2010, 12:41 PM
  #151
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Nothing against Pyatt, but the kid lacks of talent/physicality to actually be a valuable NHLer long-term.

Enough with the PK argument, we have PLENTY of guys capable of playing on the PK, and it's not like White wasn't capable of doing this neither.

We also lack of physical players. But most importantly, we need another scoring presence. Like it or not, those calling it in the summer were right.

I called Lapierre to be traded before the Christmas break, and I still believe he'll be. He's not useful in this team, and I think White would have a bigger impact on this team.

Spacek is playing way better lately. Too bad Gill and Gorges aren't following his example in the last two games.

All in all, we've got to find a way to get another offensively-gifted. It's a must.

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11-07-2010, 12:41 PM
  #152
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Hate to say it but looks like Markov needs a left handed shot to feed to...the team already has a righty in Subban.
This will draw groans and moans but then this post should fit right in the rest.

Why not try Spacek? He maybe can't hit the side of a barn but it's at least something the other team will have to respect. He rarely if even ever has been on the powerplay with Markov. Granted last year Spacek was off of the powerplay because of Bergeron. But has ever had a chance with Markov feeding him? I think Spacek holds the zone pretty good and makes good decisions.

I just don't ever recall a Markov / Spacek pairing at the points on the powerplay. Even at even strength it would give Markov something more to work with than Josh Gorges.

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11-07-2010, 01:27 PM
  #153
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At least we're not being blown out of these damn games. We somehow manage to keep them close.

I'd rather be winning though damn it!
Here is the problem with that. Montreal was winning by squeaking by lower calibre teams. Thats mainly what their record has been built on. They were winning one goal games against poor teams.

Add competition or teams getting healthy again, and you get more losses. This team is closer to an average team then they are to a great team.

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11-07-2010, 01:50 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by TankEller View Post
Nothing against Pyatt, but the kid lacks of talent/physicality to actually be a valuable NHLer long-term.

Enough with the PK argument, we have PLENTY of guys capable of playing on the PK, and it's not like White wasn't capable of doing this neither.

We also lack of physical players. But most importantly, we need another scoring presence. Like it or not, those calling it in the summer were right.

I called Lapierre to be traded before the Christmas break, and I still believe he'll be. He's not useful in this team, and I think White would have a bigger impact on this team.

Spacek is playing way better lately. Too bad Gill and Gorges aren't following his example in the last two games.

All in all, we've got to find a way to get another offensively-gifted. It's a must.
Completely agree on Pyatt. I haven't been a fan of his, especially after I discovered the microstat scene in the Spring. The guy is not an NHL-calibre player.

Gill & Gorges had a bad game last night, but the game before I thought they were alright (and they did well scoring-chance wise). In his post of last night's scoring chances, Olivier said that Gill and Gorges Subban were often out with the Pyatt-Lapierre-Boyd line which probably contributed a lot to how horrible the defensemen looked.

With the way he's played the last 2 seasons, I hope Lapierre does not receive a qualifying offer this summer. I'd be able to stomach him for $500k, but $900k is too much when you look at what some free agents got this summer.

If you look at the players getting squeezed salary-wise under the salary cap, it's the veteran, UFA bottom 6 players. If the Habs were to start signing players like Belanger, Dawes, Malholtra rather than give everyday spots to players with 4th-line upside (Pyatt, Lapierre, Boyd, probably Darche though I think he's the best of the 4) we would come away with a much stronger lineup at basically no cost (Pyatt-Lapierre-Boyd make $2 million this year). Sign 2 veteran guys, plop a White (who might have quality 3rd-line upside) or Eller in the lineup and the team would be much better off. Look how well Halpern has worked out so far (though he's scoring at an unsustainable rate).

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11-07-2010, 02:03 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
I'd waive Boyd and call-up White... or anyone who actually wants to help this team win.

It was an awfull display of lame ducks out there...

This team sucks ass... meanwhile St-Louis are first in the league (or close to it).
Time to get over the Halak thing dont you think? Price has been the Habs best player so far this year....no complaints from me on him....The PP sucks big time and they are lucky to be were they are right now.....

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11-07-2010, 02:15 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post
Completely agree on Pyatt. I haven't been a fan of his, especially after I discovered the microstat scene in the Spring. The guy is not an NHL-calibre player.

Gill & Gorges had a bad game last night, but the game before I thought they were alright (and they did well scoring-chance wise). In his post of last night's scoring chances, Olivier said that Gill and Gorges Subban were often out with the Pyatt-Lapierre-Boyd line which probably contributed a lot to how horrible the defensemen looked.

With the way he's played the last 2 seasons, I hope Lapierre does not receive a qualifying offer this summer. I'd be able to stomach him for $500k, but $900k is too much when you look at what some free agents got this summer.

If you look at the players getting squeezed salary-wise under the salary cap, it's the veteran, UFA bottom 6 players. If the Habs were to start signing players like Belanger, Dawes, Malholtra rather than give everyday spots to players with 4th-line upside (Pyatt, Lapierre, Boyd, probably Darche though I think he's the best of the 4) we would come away with a much stronger lineup at basically no cost (Pyatt-Lapierre-Boyd make $2 million this year). Sign 2 veteran guys, plop a White (who might have quality 3rd-line upside) or Eller in the lineup and the team would be much better off. Look how well Halpern has worked out so far (though he's scoring at an unsustainable rate).
the what ?

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11-07-2010, 02:21 PM
  #157
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the what ?
It's like Sabremetrics (baseball stats), but for hockey. Behind the Net's Blog and Stat Website are 2 such websites that deal with more in-depth statistical analysis than goals/assists/points/ (+/-). It's daunting at first, but I had some spare time when finishing up some courses so I ended up reading a lot in the spring/early summer.


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11-07-2010, 02:57 PM
  #158
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okay, maybe you would call me crazy but here's the hit with much better angles. You know, you will probably see that rarely.. dunno





EDIT: oh ****, I just found something awesome. That guy records Habs games on RDS and he put CKAC commentators instead of Pierre and Benoit. I really don't understand how he does but that's awesome.



that guy is now my friend..


EDIT2: more highlights from him.



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11-07-2010, 03:12 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post
Completely agree on Pyatt. I haven't been a fan of his, especially after I discovered the microstat scene in the Spring. The guy is not an NHL-calibre player.

Gill & Gorges had a bad game last night, but the game before I thought they were alright (and they did well scoring-chance wise). In his post of last night's scoring chances, Olivier said that Gill and Gorges Subban were often out with the Pyatt-Lapierre-Boyd line which probably contributed a lot to how horrible the defensemen looked.

With the way he's played the last 2 seasons, I hope Lapierre does not receive a qualifying offer this summer. I'd be able to stomach him for $500k, but $900k is too much when you look at what some free agents got this summer.

If you look at the players getting squeezed salary-wise under the salary cap, it's the veteran, UFA bottom 6 players. If the Habs were to start signing players like Belanger, Dawes, Malholtra rather than give everyday spots to players with 4th-line upside (Pyatt, Lapierre, Boyd, probably Darche though I think he's the best of the 4) we would come away with a much stronger lineup at basically no cost (Pyatt-Lapierre-Boyd make $2 million this year). Sign 2 veteran guys, plop a White (who might have quality 3rd-line upside) or Eller in the lineup and the team would be much better off. Look how well Halpern has worked out so far (though he's scoring at an unsustainable rate).
This. Unfortunately I think alot of other GM's will be on to this as well, but the better teams will be the ones able to find the scrapheap bargains in August. Teams that are up against the cap with 3-4 roster spots left to fill will be like the guys in a roto auction draft who spend their entire cap with 3-4 spots left to fill. Which makes sense, since both situations have defined, equal spending limits.

Pyatt fills a solid PK'ing role, but as guys like Gomez and Pleks show, you are better off with strong PK guys who can also play 5 on 5. Lapierre-Boyd-Pyatt is a waste of space 5 on 5. Which isn't horrible I guess, as other teams undoubtedly have that issue as well, but I'd like to start seeing our top 6 get more of their 5-on-5 ice time. Just like MAB was a PP-only specialist, these guys should be PK-only specialists. Doesn't work when you have 3 of them in the lineup though...

Which brings me to MAB. Sign him, use him on the PP at RD, and give him 2-3 minutes of ice time on the 4th line in place of Boyd or something. Will he be awful at forward? Of course. But our PP can use him, badly.

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11-07-2010, 03:13 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post
It's like Sabremetrics (baseball stats), but for hockey. Behind the Net's Blog and Stat Website are 2 such websites that deal with more in-depth statistical analysis than goals/assists/points/ (+/-). It's daunting at first, but I had some spare time when finishing up some courses so I ended up reading a lot in the spring/early summer.
oh yeah I think I heard of that before

thanks for the info

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11-07-2010, 03:27 PM
  #161
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Tommy Pyatt is pretty terrible. I don't think he is any more valuable on the PK than just about any other player on the team and he's completely useless 5vs5.

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11-07-2010, 05:41 PM
  #162
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Tommy Pyatt is pretty terrible. I don't think he is any more valuable on the PK than just about any other player on the team and he's completely useless 5vs5.
He's not more valuable on the PK than anyone else? Wow.

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11-07-2010, 06:25 PM
  #163
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He's not more valuable on the PK than anyone else? Wow.
He's not making him unexpendable, no, sorry.

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11-07-2010, 06:28 PM
  #164
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He's not making him unexpendable, no, sorry.
Agreed, but that wasn't the comment. Saying someone like Pouliot or AK46 is Pyatt's equal at PK'ing is amusing, and needed to be refuted.

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11-07-2010, 06:50 PM
  #165
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Agreed, but that wasn't the comment. Saying someone like Pouliot or AK46 is Pyatt's equal at PK'ing is amusing, and needed to be refuted.
Maybe, but I think the guy meant he's not any better than the PKers we have in place. That means Halpern, Plekanec, Moen, Gomez, Gionta, and even possibly Lapierre. We don't need Pyatt that much, and I don't think White would be any worst than him anyway.

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11-07-2010, 11:09 PM
  #166
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Maybe, but I think the guy meant he's not any better than the PKers we have in place. That means Halpern, Plekanec, Moen, Gomez, Gionta, and even possibly Lapierre. We don't need Pyatt that much, and I don't think White would be any worst than him anyway.
Then why does Pyatt have the most PK time among any of them with the exception of Halpern (2 seconds difference)? Seriously. Pyatt is a great PKer and a huge reason we went to the conference finals last year. You're fooling yourself if you don't think Pyatt is helping this team on the PK and that anyone could do his job. If anyone of those guys were as good as Pyatt on the PK, they'd play. Especially someone like Gomez or Gionta who have done absolutely nothing at either end of the ice in reality so far.

Aside from Halpern and Plekanec, Pyatt has probably been the most useful of any of those guys. Maybe Lapierre and Moen are about equal.

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11-07-2010, 11:28 PM
  #167
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The main reason he's getting PK time is because of his speed and because he's a hard worker. Lapierre was great on the PK when Carbo was there. And White could do it. We also have guys like Plek, Gomez and Gio that are used there and Moen is considered a PK specialist, not to mention Halpern and Darche that can do it. So the need for Pyatt...

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11-07-2010, 11:32 PM
  #168
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I'd like to remind you that your team is 3rd in the Eastern Conference and best in the division. There are teams who would give body parts for a goalie with as much potential as Carey Price (my Sens sure would). Criticizing a game is fine, but the makeup of the team? Come on, the Habs are doing a lot better than most.
They've been pretty lucky so far. You haven't watched the games, it's more than just this game, it's been an easy breeze. They are so soft. Habs have been too soft for too long.

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11-08-2010, 07:42 AM
  #169
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Then why does Pyatt have the most PK time among any of them with the exception of Halpern (2 seconds difference)? Seriously. Pyatt is a great PKer and a huge reason we went to the conference finals last year. You're fooling yourself if you don't think Pyatt is helping this team on the PK and that anyone could do his job. If anyone of those guys were as good as Pyatt on the PK, they'd play. Especially someone like Gomez or Gionta who have done absolutely nothing at either end of the ice in reality so far.

Aside from Halpern and Plekanec, Pyatt has probably been the most useful of any of those guys. Maybe Lapierre and Moen are about equal.
Because Martin is trying to conserve Plekanec, Gionta and Gomez's PK ice time so they can play more PP and even strength minutes?

He's a good penalty killer but not a "great" one, the reason he's effective is because of his speed but he lacks the hockey smarts to be a great penalty killer. He's often caught running all over the place and out of position on the PK while guys like Plekanec and Halpern are very effective on the PK because of their positioning and knowing how to read plays. He did help us last year in the playoffs but he hasn't played like he did in the playoffs, guys like Gill and even Spacek played well in the playoffs yet people bash them for their play so far.

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11-08-2010, 10:13 AM
  #170
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They've been pretty lucky so far. You haven't watched the games, it's more than just this game, it's been an easy breeze. They are so soft. Habs have been too soft for too long.
OMG This proves my point in another thread !

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11-08-2010, 10:34 AM
  #171
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I'd waive Boyd and call-up White... or anyone who actually wants to help this team win.

It was an awfull display of lame ducks out there...

This team sucks ass... meanwhile St-Louis are first in the league (or close to it).
So head over to the Blues forum and be a Blues fan

Price has been terrific and mentioning St Louis is so lame it's scary.

BTW Conklin was in net against the Rags and got the shutout for StL yesterday.

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11-08-2010, 11:09 AM
  #172
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Pyatt is as useful as a 4th-liner of his salary point really ought to be (yeah, Halpern is a lot more valuable, but he's a third-liner and on one of those late-signing-vets contracts). He spells the top guys, handles soft minutes, and puts in tons of quality PK time; that's really all you can ask of a guy like him, and that's honestly really quite a lot. I think he's a good guy to have on the team so long as he's not thrown into things he cannot handle (like Gomez's wing).

He's not a bad guy to have on your team but Martin seems inordinately enamored of him and it's been a problem before.

Boyd, however, is pretty much useless, which would serve to put the Sergei Kostitsyn trade/giveaway into more question if Boyd hadn't actually ended up being signed as a UFA. Boyd should probably be the pressbox guy for the foreseeable future.

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11-08-2010, 07:50 PM
  #173
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Because Martin is trying to conserve Plekanec, Gionta and Gomez's PK ice time so they can play more PP and even strength minutes?

He's a good penalty killer but not a "great" one, the reason he's effective is because of his speed but he lacks the hockey smarts to be a great penalty killer. He's often caught running all over the place and out of position on the PK while guys like Plekanec and Halpern are very effective on the PK because of their positioning and knowing how to read plays. He did help us last year in the playoffs but he hasn't played like he did in the playoffs, guys like Gill and even Spacek played well in the playoffs yet people bash them for their play so far.
Go find the statistics for when Pyatt is on the ice during a PK. It's quite surprising just how good they are.

And I really doubt Martin is trying to conserve Plekanec. He's not that smart. Plekanec is pretty close in PK time to Pyatt. You usually need 4-5 good PKing forwards per team. (2 shifts of 2, and a spare incase one of them is in the box).

We have Pyatt, Plekanec, and Halpern who are excellent in my mind.

Lapierre is pretty good. I'm not a huge fan of Moen on the PK, but he's okay. Gionta is passable but not the perfect option, IMO. And Gomez, meh. He's too dumb with retaliation penalties and rushes to be great, IMO.

Pyatt chews up a lot of PK minutes because .. wait for it .. the other team doesn't score very often when he's on the ice.

To be fair, he's not played well 5 on 5 to this point. He hasn't been terrible, but he's been pretty useless. He can be better though, and I expect him to be. I just wish Martin would stick with some lines for a few games instead of switching them after every single shift.

Pyatt became most effective when he played with the same guys over a long period of time (Moore and Lapierre). Line him up with White/Eller & Lapierre and they'll be flying out there --- if you give them time to develop some chemistry, FFS. Keep putting grinders on an offensive line and now you guys playing out of their bubble.. and when they get put back in the ordinary position, they try to do different things.

It sucks. Martin is terrible with line juggling and its the biggest reason I hate him as a coach.

You can't really ask of much more from a 4th liner -- although I do agree his 5 on 5 play has been below what he's capable of.

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11-08-2010, 10:44 PM
  #174
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To be fair, he's not played well 5 on 5 to this point. He hasn't been terrible, but he's been pretty useless. He can be better though, and I expect him to be. I just wish Martin would stick with some lines for a few games instead of switching them after every single shift.
I think that's an understatement. Last season him and Lapierre were the two worst forwards (who were with the team at the end) at even-strength in terms of +/- per 60 minutes and this season they are no better at the early point this year (getting destroyed in scoring chances and in terms of +/- per 60 again). Pyatt is a quality penalty killer but i'm not sure that the difference between him and our next-best PKer not in use is worth how horrible he is at even-strength.

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11-08-2010, 11:37 PM
  #175
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The main reason he's getting PK time is because of his speed and because he's a hard worker. Lapierre was great on the PK when Carbo was there. And White could do it. We also have guys like Plek, Gomez and Gio that are used there and Moen is considered a PK specialist, not to mention Halpern and Darche that can do it. So the need for Pyatt...
We weren't as good on the PK in the Carbo years as we've been lately.
We respectively finished, 13th-15th-11th on the PK during Carbo's 3years. Lappy during those years was used 1:28-1:32-1:58 on the PK.
Last season, it was more of the same, we finished 12th with Lappy averaging 0:38 on it. Pyatt that played half the year here was used for about 1min. We really became a PK power in the POs where we ranked 3rd, with Gorges and Gill emerging as two big pillars, but Pyatt was also a huge contributor tied for the most SH IceTime among Forwards along with Plek at 2:58.
This year as of today, we're 5th, with Pyatt avg only 2sec less (2:31) than the most used Forward in Halpern.

You can pretty much say anybody could play on the PK. Gomez, Gionta, Moen, Lappy, White, Plek, Halpern, Darche, Boyd, heck even Pouliot could play there. Doesn't mean they'll all be just as good as one another.

If there's one thing you can easily give to Pyatt, it's his PK prowess. The kid is great there. Sure, Lappy wasn't too bad on the PK in the Carbo years but he wasn't as good, and that's why he isn't used there anymore. There are better guys.

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