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Is Jeff Carter the mike Schmidt of the Flyers ?

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11-08-2010, 12:06 AM
  #1
SgtJoseph
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Is Jeff Carter the mike Schmidt of the Flyers ?

Seems many folks look at Jeff Carter the same way many Philadelphia fans looked at Mike Schmidt back in his day.Schmitty was always knocked for looking like he was not really trying, not putting forth 100% effort etc, even though his numbers showed other wise.Schmidts style of play looked effortless at times mostly because he was just a smooth almost graceful type player on the field which many viewed as him not trying as hard as players who were not as smooth, or did not make plays look easy the way he did.He would have horrible slumps at the plate, then string together some hot streaks of tremendous home runs etc.He struck out a lot, looked terrible at the plate for a few games then he would get in a groove and heat up for a stretch etc, end of the season his stats would look great.

Jeff Carter is a player in Hockey that reminds me of Schmidt that way.When you see him play live it looks like he is not skating hard, but he is faster than most everyone on the ice.His strides are not as fast as most others but he is certainly covering more ice than most with what looks like less effort.His hard wrist shots although inaccurate for long stretches, seem to start finding their mark suddenly for a stretch and then every one loves Carts suddenly.

Same deal with Schmitty, i have seen him booed pretty bad for stretches, then a few bombs and everyone loved Schmitty.A lot of folks want Carter traded etc, and certainly the dreaded salary cap has a little to do with such thinking,But in some ways i think Carter is just one of them type athletes that will always look like he may not be hustling or trying etc, but it is just his style of play for the most part, he is streaky just like Schmidt was.I am sure most NHL teams would like such a problem player ?

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11-08-2010, 12:45 AM
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OriginJM
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I guess I can see what you're saying. He throws a lot of shots at net, and that's simple hockey... and I like it because it creates for many others. Fact is, I don't mind Carter... he's fine. I'm glad we have him, I just wish he had more personality and showed more emotion on the ice. But then again he could be fine, I might be biased because I met him on the street and didn't have that pleasant of an experience with him.

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11-08-2010, 03:42 AM
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You just blew my mind!

But seriously, I completely see where you're going with this. I remember watching Schmitty back in the day, and it was very similar to watching Jeff Carter these days. When Schmitty came to the plate (or Carter has the puck), you'd scoot to the edge of your seat in anticipation. Sometimes you were let down, but when you weren't it was a thing of beauty. I also remember people panning Schmitty, which at that age I didn't really understand. Here's a guy who was the leading HR hitter, and people were talking about him like he was a pile of crap...

I'm going to see if I can find it on youtube or somewhere, but I saw an interview with Schmitty a couple years back (pretty sure it was on ESPN). At the end of the interview he gets asked to do his best impersonation of Harry Kalas calling a Mike Schmidt HR. He nails it, and it's ****ing hilarious.

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Old
11-08-2010, 03:45 AM
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There is hate on this board, but me personally, I like him. The only thing that really bothers me the high and wide or high and off the glass I hear every game. The dude can play.

The problem is, he needs to carry the puck. He needs to center, and not play wing. Without him, we have no size up the middle. Give him some decent wingers, and you'll see his goals go up.

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11-08-2010, 07:14 AM
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I could go either way on Carter. He's got loads of talent and potential and is probably the best goal scorer we have on this team, but if they traded him tomorrow, I wouldn't be as upset or worried if they traded someone like Richards or Giroux.

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11-08-2010, 07:28 AM
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Everyone complains that he doesn't score goals and always misses the net.

So I wonder how bad the complaining would be if he hadn't led the team in goals the last 2 years and led the team in shots on net the last 3 years.

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11-08-2010, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Everyone complains that he doesn't score goals and always misses the net.

So I wonder how bad the complaining would be if he hadn't led the team in goals the last 2 years and led the team in shots on net the last 3 years.
But...but...but what has he done for me lately?

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11-08-2010, 07:44 AM
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The problem is unrealistic expectations.

I fear for Giroux if he drops down to 60 pt pace.

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11-08-2010, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I could go either way on Carter. He's got loads of talent and potential and is probably the best goal scorer we have on this team, but if they traded him tomorrow, I wouldn't be as upset or worried if they traded someone like Richards or Giroux.
Remember, this is Homer we're talking about. The number 1 reason I don't want Carter traded is that I don't know what we would get in return. Long gone are the days when we got Coburn for Zhitnik and add in the lack of knowledge when it comes to cap management.

I don't have a problem with him being traded but I do have a problem with the guy who's going to make the trade.

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11-08-2010, 07:49 AM
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Just so I understand, you're comparing a player who will never sniff the Hall of Fame, with a player who was considered the best player to ever play his position in the history of the game? Do I have that right?

Carter would be more like Abreu.

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11-08-2010, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by phillyflu View Post
Just so I understand, you're comparing a player who will never sniff the Hall of Fame, with a player who was considered the best player to ever play his position in the history of the game? Do I have that right?
You realize that Jeff Carter at his current pace, and avoiding serious injuries will hit 500 goals in his mid 30s, right?

And he's comparing the idiotic fan reaction to a player, not the players themselves.

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11-08-2010, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You realize that Jeff Carter at his current pace, and avoiding serious injuries will hit 500 goals in his mid 30s, right?

And he's comparing the idiotic fan reaction to a player, not the players themselves.
His current pace it will take him 1322 games to reach 500. Alot can happen in over 900 games.

Bobby Abreu is still a better comparison.

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11-08-2010, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyflu View Post
His current pace it will take him 1322 games to reach 500. Alot can happen in over 900 games.
Sure, but it's a major hole in your post... he's produced pretty damn well.

Quote:
Bobby Abreu is still a better comparison.
Then make your own OP, because comparing the players was not the point.

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11-08-2010, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Sure, but it's a major hole in your post... he's produced pretty damn well.



Then make your own OP, because comparing the players was not the point.

Is Jeff Carter the mike Schmidt of the Flyers?

Maybe you could start a thread explaining how Jeff Carter is going to score 500 goals and be a Hall of Famer and is under appreciated by the evil Philly fanbase.

Right, not the point. Maybe then the title should be Is Jeff Carter under appreciated? Or, Why do fans hate future Hall of Famer Jeff Carter?

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11-08-2010, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyflu View Post
Is Jeff Carter the mike Schmidt of the Flyers?

Maybe you could start a thread explaining how Jeff Carter is going to score 500 goals and be a Hall of Famer and is under appreciated by the evil Philly fanbase.

Right, not the point. Maybe then the title should be Is Jeff Carter under appreciated? Or, Why do fans hate future Hall of Famer Jeff Carter?
Luke, dude, the point was that people lack appreciation for Carter because of their perception of his effort level, etc... the same as with Schmidt. NOT that Carter is the best ever at his position, and that isn't being appreciated. It's about the fan's perception of the player.

To which you came in with:

Quote:
Just so I understand, you're comparing a player who will never sniff the Hall of Fame, with a player who was considered the best player to ever play his position in the history of the game? Do I have that right?

Carter would be more like Abreu.
Displaying that your reading comprehension is lacking and that you completely failed to understand the point that the OP was making. That's YOUR PROBLEM not his.

Read better.

If you want to draw player comparisons between Carter and Philadelphia Phillies, by all means go ahead and do it. However, criticizing the OP's post because you can't read what he's saying and/or don't care what he's saying, is being a dick. If you want to say, "No, the asinine fan reaction to Carter is not like Schmidt because Carter isn't as good as him." Fine, but that really ignores the point that the perception is quite similar in many ways.

Of course, then you run into the problem that what is animating the dislike (the perception of lack of effort, etc.) can be said to be similar for all three players. However, Bobby Abreu wasn't known for the completely unrealistic dislike the way Schmidt is, thus why Schmidt is the person of comparison for Philly sports fan's stupidity.

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11-08-2010, 08:27 AM
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Oh and BTW, my comparison to Abreu is a heck of lot more apt than HOF'er Schmidt. He puts up nice numbers, you can count on him for 30-40 goals, but he'll get run out of town just like Abreu did. No one appreciated the .300ba, 30s, 30hrs every year. Because he was soft, looked like he was lazy and coasting. Carter is the same in a lot of fans eyes. They even got the same nickname, Tin man.

But you're right, this isn't about the players, even know I was saying the exact same thing.

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11-08-2010, 08:28 AM
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phillyflu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Luke, dude, the point was that people lack appreciation for Carter because of their perception of his effort level, etc... the same as with Schmidt. NOT that Carter is the best ever at his position, and that isn't being appreciated. It's about the fan's perception of the player.

To which you came in with:



Displaying that your reading comprehension is lacking and that you completely failed to understand the point that the OP was making. That's YOUR PROBLEM not his.

Read better.

If you want to draw player comparisons between Carter and Philadelphia Phillies, by all means go ahead and do it. However, criticizing the OP's post because you can't read what he's saying and/or don't care what he's saying, is being a dick. If you want to say, "No, the asinine fan reaction to Carter is not like Schmidt because Carter isn't as good as him." Fine, but that really ignores the point that the perception is quite similar in many ways.

Of course, then you run into the problem that what is animating the dislike (the perception of lack of effort, etc.) can be said to be similar for all three players. However, Bobby Abreu wasn't known for the completely unrealistic dislike the way Schmidt is, thus why Schmidt is the person of comparison for Philly sports fan's stupidity.
Actually, I made exactly the same point, it was you who failed reading comprehension.

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Old
11-08-2010, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Dirk Starlight View Post
There is hate on this board, but me personally, I like him. The only thing that really bothers me the high and wide or high and off the glass I hear every game. The dude can play.

The problem is, he needs to carry the puck. He needs to center, and not play wing. Without him, we have no size up the middle. Give him some decent wingers, and you'll see his goals go up.
I like Jeff Carter a lot but this size up the middle **** has to end. Jeff Carter doesn't use his size to his advantage. Richards, Briere and Giroux are better puck battlers than him and can control the cycle better than him dispute their size. Don't get me wrong Carter brings a lot to this team, but just because a guy is bigger doesn't mean he uses his size to his advantage. If he used his size and physically we'd have another Big E on our hands. Moreover Jeff Carter shouldn't be traded nor does he need to be at this point. After the season we can evaluate things until then people really need to cut out the Carter vs Giroux **** because its starting to sound like the old Ovie vs Crosby debates where both parties look like complete meatheads.

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Old
11-08-2010, 08:43 AM
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Jester,

Apparently I missed the entire point of this message board. I thought it was to debate differing opinions, not just slap everyone on the back and say, good job, I agree with you. My apologies. I understand now that any discourse is frowned upon.

Excellent comparison btw, Schmidt and Carter is right on. I love Jeff, he's getting a raw deal. Philly doesn't deserve him.

To the OP, I apologize for offering a different opinion from yours, you were right, I was wrong.

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11-08-2010, 08:51 AM
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No hate here but he has his moments. And he will never score 40 this year, if he keeps his stick in the face of his opponents. He has taken at least 4 high sticking penalties over the last few games, I can never remember him in the box this much.

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Old
11-08-2010, 08:54 AM
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yeah, **** carter!! trade him for selanne! that's a PROVEN goal scorer!

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11-08-2010, 08:55 AM
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Is Jeff Carter the Mike Schmidt of the Flyers?

No. Schmidt was never a ****** (rhymes with Boosh).

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11-08-2010, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyflu View Post
Jester,

Apparently I missed the entire point of this message board. I thought it was to debate differing opinions, not just slap everyone on the back and say, good job, I agree with you. My apologies. I understand now that any discourse is frowned upon.

Excellent comparison btw, Schmidt and Carter is right on. I love Jeff, he's getting a raw deal. Philly doesn't deserve him.

To the OP, I apologize for offering a different opinion from yours, you were right, I was wrong.
You are learning that only certain people's perspectives matter and they will define the parameters of the debate and say that your points are irrelevent so that your entire premise becomes irrelevent. Just realize that Carter seems to be sacrosanct on this board and there is a double standard. If you are a Carter detractor you might as well be the devil incarnate no matter how valid your points may be. Personally, I'm not a huge fan and so far this season given that he's scored all his points in 5 of 15GP thus far and hasn't showed any new aspects to his game I'm not thrilled about signing this guy to anything more than a 5.5 to 6M 3 year contract and even that is reaching right now. That is my main gripe about him from a purely business standpoint. I'm afraid of overrrating the guy and overpaying him given our precarious cap situation going into next year. Giroux should be more of a priority and I'm sure he'll be signed but I'd like to keep Leino. Maybe trading Carle and some other tinkering can get things squared away but when Holmgren has to think more than he has to it gets dangerous as hell....

Having said this I do think playing him out of position is not helping his cause but that's where I wish he was a little more adaptable and versitile. The thing that is most troubling of late is his careless stick infractions. I believe he is among the league leaders in minor penalties involving the stick. Him and Briere must be hanging out together more or something. Kind of like women who have their periods in sync when they are around each other...

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Old
11-08-2010, 09:19 AM
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DrDoom,

Funny thing is, I like Carter, more than Richie in fact. At least Jeff can win a draw. I was also a big Abreu (and Schmidty) fan. But I digress.

I agree, playing him out of position isn't doing him any favors. The guy was born to be a right winger. But he is either incapable of adjusting or is too damn stubborn.

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Old
11-08-2010, 09:24 AM
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I love Mike Schmidt. My favorite baseball player ever.

He is my second favorite athlete next to Ron Hextall.

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