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Carter close to signing 10-year deal (post #441 and #675); Leino update (# 675)

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Old
11-09-2010, 09:08 AM
  #26
IrishSniper87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
Carter doesnt deserve any more than what he's making. He also doesn't deserve a very long contract


I'm not going to like the outcome of this
Carter is our best goalscorer and is making $5.5 this year.

He is well worth that price, whether you like him or not. On the open market, Carter could EASILY get $7 per for many years.

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11-09-2010, 09:11 AM
  #27
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double post somehow, sorry

Out of curiosity, anyone have an idea/list of the people signed after the lock-out who've scored 40 goals in a season?


Last edited by Chicken Chaser: 11-09-2010 at 09:16 AM.
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11-09-2010, 09:11 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Carter is our best goalscorer and is making $5.5 this year.

He is well worth that price, whether you like him or not. On the open market, Carter could EASILY get $7 per for many years.
our best goal scorer who has all of his 11 points in 5 games, and ZERO in the other 10?

sorry, but being our "best goal scorer" requires consistency and Carter does not have that

He may be worth $7m, but I sure as hell don't want him making that much on our team

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11-09-2010, 09:18 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
our best goal scorer who has all of his 11 points in 5 games, and ZERO in the other 10?

sorry, but being our "best goal scorer" requires consistency and Carter does not have that

He may be worth $7m, but I sure as hell don't want him making that much on our team
Yeah, ok. Take a small sample of games from the very beginning of the season after moving Carter out of position in a failed line tactics experiment.

The fact of the matter is that Carter has 11 points in 15 games, which is almost PPG while spending most of his time in a position he is NOT suited to play.

In one specific 15 game stretch, Carter has only 5 goals in 15 games. Boo hoo.

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11-09-2010, 09:22 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Carter is our best goalscorer and is making $5.5 this year.

He is well worth that price, whether you like him or not. On the open market, Carter could EASILY get $7 per for many years.
He hasn't proven himself to be worth that IMO.

I'd be happy to sign him long term but it's got to be Richards money.

Not every 40 goal scorer (he's only done it once by the way) is worth $7mil.

For that kind of money you need consistency and you need proven playoff performance. He hasn't shown either. I'd argue he hasn't had much of an opportunity to show it in the playoffs but that doesn't mean you ignore the fact he hasn't proven it.

There are VERY VERY few $7mil forwards in this league and some of those contracts aren't good at all.

On this team there's already a presumption against paying a guy that much because we've got so much forward depth. He hasn't come close to rebutting that presumption.

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11-09-2010, 09:26 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Yeah, ok. Take a small sample of games from the very beginning of the season after moving Carter out of position in a failed line tactics experiment.

The fact of the matter is that Carter has 11 points in 15 games, which is almost PPG while spending most of his time in a position he is NOT suited to play.

In one specific 15 game stretch, Carter has only 5 goals in 15 games. Boo hoo.
not just a small sample. If you can't see the faults in his game, you need to pay more attention. All he does is float and come down the wing and shoot...every time. He never makes a move, he never drives to the net. Like someone said before, Carter is probably the worst 40 goal scorer in the past 10 years. Unless he decides to change the way he plays, he'll never score 40 goals in a season ever.

And I don't have to bring up his playoff performance. And don't use injuries as an excuse because 90% of the players in the playoffs are suffering from an injury

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11-09-2010, 09:30 AM
  #32
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Hopefully he stays around Richards money. 6mil per for 5 or 6 years?

Quote:
not just a small sample. If you can't see the faults in his game, you need to pay more attention. All he does is float and come down the wing and shoot...every time. He never makes a move, he never drives to the net. Like someone said before, Carter is probably the worst 40 goal scorer in the past 10 years. Unless he decides to change the way he plays, he'll never score 40 goals in a season ever.

And I don't have to bring up his playoff performance. And don't use injuries as an excuse because 90% of the players in the playoffs are suffering from an injury
You are so off its not even funny.

Cheechoo? Jason Blake? Vanek?Boyes?Gionta? Thats only the last few years.

No matter how you look at it, Carter is at least a 35 goal scorer. Hopefully Laviolette will stop playing him at wing soon because he sucks at it, but at Center is a huge part of this team.
Gagne wasnt very creative in his goal scoring either, that doesnt mean he is a bad player.


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Old
11-09-2010, 09:50 AM
  #33
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You are so off its not even funny.

Cheechoo? Jason Blake? Vanek?Boyes?Gionta?






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11-09-2010, 10:00 AM
  #34
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Carter has scored the most ESG on the Flyers for the past 3 seasons.

Also, he has pretty much always been on the 2nd unit PP. Averaging 3mins or less the last 3 year, yet is still usually at the top in terms of PP goals.

In 07-08 Upshall-Carter-Knuble was our most consistent line a even strength, then in 08-09 Hartnell-Carter-Lupul were definitely our best line at ES, and I would argue that Hartnell-Carter-Briere was our best line at ES last year (until Leino-Briere-Hartnell).

Coincidence that Carter centered all 3 of those lines?

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11-09-2010, 10:02 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
No matter how you look at it, Carter is at least a 35 goal scorer. .
I think that will likely be true going forward. But for current contract purposes you can't ignore the fact he's done that all of ONE time.

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11-09-2010, 10:05 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
I think that will likely be true going forward. But for current contract purposes you can't ignore the fact he's done that all of ONE time.
33 goals in 74 games is a 35 pace.

But liek you said, in contractual discussions the team definitely has some bargaining chips. Carter's playoff numbers, and his drop off after the 46 goal year.

Though I still give Carter a wash for the last 2 playoffs. Separated shoulder in 08-09, and broken feet last yea, but if anything its just a way to keep his cap hit down a bit, not a reason to trade him

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11-09-2010, 10:07 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
You are so off its not even funny.

Cheechoo? Jason Blake? Vanek?Boyes?Gionta? Thats only the last few years.
Haha. I got a kick out of this post.

Anyway, this is Richards' contract:

2008-09: 5,400
2009-10: 5,600
2010-11: 6,400
2011-12: 6,600
2012-13: 8,400
2013-14: 7,600
2014-15: 7,000
2015-16: 6,000
2016-17: 5,500
2017-18: 4,500
2018-19: 3,000
2019-20: 3,000

Cap Hit: 5.75m (12 years - 69.00m)

Now take off the RFA years.

2011-12: 6,600
2012-13: 8,400
2013-14: 7,600
2014-15: 7,000
2015-16: 6,000
2016-17: 5,500
2017-18: 4,500
2018-19: 3,000
2019-20: 3,000

Carter's contract: 5.73m (9 years - 51.60m)

Or take off RFA years and "cap circumvention years" (which are still legal in Richards' contract so it is possible to give them to Carter):

2011-12: 6,600
2012-13: 8,400
2013-14: 7,600
2014-15: 7,000
2015-16: 6,000
2016-17: 5,500
2017-18: 4,500

Carter's contract: 6.51m (7 years - 45.60m)

Or get Carter for 5 years through his prime...

2011-12: 6,600
2012-13: 8,400
2013-14: 7,600
2014-15: 7,000
2015-16: 6,000

Carter's contract: 7.12m (5 years - 35.60m)

People here have some great misconception that Richards' didn't get his money. Richards' certainly got his money, and Carter will to. The question is how many years do you want to give him? The more years, the lower the cap hit.

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Old
11-09-2010, 10:09 AM
  #38
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Carter wants more then 6 mil?

Say no Homer! JUST SAY NO!

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Old
11-09-2010, 10:23 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
not just a small sample. If you can't see the faults in his game, you need to pay more attention. All he does is float and come down the wing and shoot...every time. He never makes a move, he never drives to the net. Like someone said before, Carter is probably the worst 40 goal scorer in the past 10 years. Unless he decides to change the way he plays, he'll never score 40 goals in a season ever.

And I don't have to bring up his playoff performance. And don't use injuries as an excuse because 90% of the players in the playoffs are suffering from an injury
I'm not saying I WANT to see him sign for $7. I'm just saying that $7 is certainly reasonable.

I would like a 5 or 6 year deal at $6 per. That would make me happy.

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11-09-2010, 10:24 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
33 goals in 74 games is a 35 pace.

But liek you said, in contractual discussions the team definitely has some bargaining chips. Carter's playoff numbers, and his drop off after the 46 goal year.

Though I still give Carter a wash for the last 2 playoffs. Separated shoulder in 08-09, and broken feet last yea, but if anything its just a way to keep his cap hit down a bit, not a reason to trade him
Agreed. I'd go long term, but people who are suggesting 6+ long term are just off there rocker, there's no basis for that. Because some other desperate teams would overpay doesn't mean the Flyers should.

and 7 is so far from reasonable it's hard to express. A player's value on the open market (which is not even entirely based on reason) IS NOT the same as his value to a specific team.

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11-09-2010, 10:29 AM
  #41
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My uneducated guess would be $44mil over 8 years.

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11-09-2010, 10:31 AM
  #42
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Im more interested in what the contract looks like.

Form a facebook convo:
When he came up he was billed as our savior, the man who will score 60 goals a year, he will carry us all to the promise land, and has fallen short, and all the partying stories and the olde city clique stuff buried him, got lupul and upshall traded, and him and richards buried. richards redeemed himself a lot in the second half last year (hell even I got on him, and i LOVE richards)where as carter really hasnt. he has stretches where he looks disinterested and that doesnt fly here. Health isnt a real issue with him hes been dinged up but not that bad. he shows flashes of all that promise and potential, thats what sucks. hes a big dude i wish he'd use his size, but he never does.


I've gotten over a lot of the hate that I've had for him, but i firmly believe he is a case that would strongly benefit from a change of scenery. A change of coach didn't seem to help, and shaking up the roster didnt either. As I stated above, Carter has the talent, size, potential, and tools to be a scoring threat for years to come. He CAN put up big numbers. I just dont think it's here. He falls into a common catagory of the young modern athlete. He's gifted, young, and rich. Those players don't play up to potential and usually end up experiancing some kind of drastic change in their career (coaching change, being benched, being sent down, getting traded, being cut, etc), and usually get it tigether. Carter has been through a coaching change, and roster turnover, and he still seems to have been uneffected. Another thought, to light a fire under his ass, and cover the teams ass, is a short term, low end deal. Let him be insulted and play harder for a new deal, and if he does sign it, and bombs, he's easier to trade. Also, he is a restricted free agent, the ball is in Homer's court.


With ALL that said, I wouldn't sign him NOW, or trade him NOW. Evaluate his play at the deadline, if he isn't better, try to move him. If he's making progress, left him play the season out. Then evaluate him again after the season and do what you need to. Carter is too inconsistant to see him extended to a "long term" deal right now. He's going to get a deal based on potential and that is probably going to kill us. Id hate 3 years from now be stuck with 4-5 years left with 7+ million a year, unable to resign other important players (assuming Holmgren is still in cap hell).


Giroux was a sign now priority. Carter isn't.

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11-09-2010, 10:34 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
Agreed. I'd go long term, but people who are suggesting 6+ long term are just off there rocker, there's no basis for that. Because some other desperate teams would overpay doesn't mean the Flyers should.

and 7 is so far from reasonable it's hard to express. A player's value on the open market (which is not even entirely based on reason) IS NOT the same as his value to a specific team.
Yeah luckily he is a RFA this year and not a UFA.

I think around 6 mil(Richards gets 5.75) is what he will get. Probably for around 6-8 years.

Bobby Ryan is a decent comparable (Carter has a better resume) and he got 5.1 over 5 years. so around 5.5-6 for Carter is not unreasonable for that length of a contract

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11-09-2010, 10:43 AM
  #44
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People keep using his point totals from this season as a reason to bash him, but the fact is when he plays at centre like he did during Briere's suspension, he's an excellent player. He is not versatile like Richards who can play either wing as well as centre although I'd like to see them try Carter on LW to see how that goes. He scores a lot of goals from that side.

I think 6 million a year for 6 or so years is fair. And stop playing him on RW right now, Lavi!

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11-09-2010, 11:04 AM
  #45
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And stop playing him on RW right now, Lavi!
Agreed. If he played LW and used his size better, coupled with that shot, being a right handed shot, he could put up some serious numbers. Assuming he plays with Richards and JvR moves to the right side, that could be a leathal line

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11-09-2010, 11:05 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Yeah luckily he is a RFA this year and not a UFA.

I think around 6 mil(Richards gets 5.75) is what he will get. Probably for around 6-8 years.

Bobby Ryan is a decent comparable (Carter has a better resume) and he got 5.1 over 5 years. so around 5.5-6 for Carter is not unreasonable for that length of a contract
5.5 would be ideal, id be very happy with that

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11-09-2010, 11:17 AM
  #47
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5 years @ $30M would be ideal, even though I'm not Carter's biggest fan. That said, I expect he's going to get 7 years @ $45M, or something around there.

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11-09-2010, 11:18 AM
  #48
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5.5 would be ideal, id be very happy with that
Carter is getting payed 5.5 now. He is going to get a fair amount more. If you guys think he is getting anything under 6, you will be disappointed.

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11-09-2010, 11:22 AM
  #49
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Carter is getting payed 5.5 now. He is going to get a fair amount more. If you guys think he is getting anything under 6, you will be disappointed.
If that's what the low number is right now than they should wait till the end of the year and see what kind of offers come in.

He hasn't earned that in the short term and he hasn't proven he'll be worth that long term IMO.

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11-09-2010, 11:22 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
Carter is getting payed 5.5 now. He is going to get a fair amount more. If you guys think he is getting anything under 6, you will be disappointed.
His cap hit is 5 million even.

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