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[Phantoms] Greg Gilbert fired, replaced by John Paddock for now

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11-09-2010, 09:49 AM
  #51
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From Meltzer

The Phantoms have fired head coach Greg Gilbert. Assistant GM John Paddock will at least temporarily step behind the bench again as interim head coach. Considering that Paddock and Gilbert are cut from the same cloth, there isn't going to be much relief in the dressing room in Glens Falls. Players know that Paddock is evaluating them first-hand. The club has lost nine straight games, many in blowout fashion.

And, no, there is no chance of Pat Maroon returning to the Phantoms. Paddock isn't about to show up Gilbert like that, and it was clear that -- regardless of how many goals he was scoring so far this season -- Maroon was part of the problem.

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11-09-2010, 09:49 AM
  #52
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As much as I didn't like stevens as a NHL coach, I really think he would be good (and was) as an AHL coach. He seemed to be more easy going, so the players felt a little more comfortable.

But then you get up to the big league, and you have a hard ass coach, so you know, you better perform if you wanna stay there.
To this day I don't understand why so many liked Stevens as an AHL coach. He won a Calder Cup with a stacked roster that got even better at the playoffs, he lost in the 2nd round with another stacked roster and then had 4 mediocre seasons (missing the playoffs twice).

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11-09-2010, 09:53 AM
  #53
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To this day I don't understand why so many liked Stevens as an AHL coach. He won a Calder Cup with a stacked roster that got even better at the playoffs, he lost in the 2nd round with another stacked roster and then had 4 mediocre seasons (missing the playoffs twice).
It's not the team results, it's the player developmental results. Stevens was instrumental in developing many of the current Flyers and players that have left in recent years. For that alone, I would not mind him taking over in Adirondack.

Being a developmental league, winning the Calder Cup is actually secondary to the Flyers' needs.

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11-09-2010, 09:54 AM
  #54
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It's not the team results, it's the player developmental results. Stevens was instrumental in developing many of the current Flyers and players that have left in recent years. For that alone, I would not mind him taking over in Adirondack.
We can agree to disagree. Players like Carter, Richards, Umberger, Sharp, etc were going to be very good NHLers regardless of who their AHL coach was.

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11-09-2010, 09:59 AM
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It's not the team results, it's the player developmental results. Stevens was instrumental in developing many of the current Flyers and players that have left in recent years. For that alone, I would not mind him taking over in Adirondack.

Being a developmental league, winning the Calder Cup is actually secondary to the Flyers' needs.
who did he develop?

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11-09-2010, 10:16 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
We can agree to disagree. Players like Carter, Richards, Umberger, Sharp, etc were going to be very good NHLers regardless of who their AHL coach was.
Perhaps, but we saw them bloom under Stevens' tutelage.

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who did he develop?
See pelts' list above, plus Upshall, Seidenberg, Fedoruk, Niittymaki, Jim Vandermeer, Freddy Meyer IV, Ben Eager, Randy Jones, Riley Cote (lest we forget he was never supposed to make it or stick in the NHL), Pitkanen, Ryan Parent, Coburn, Downie, and Powe.

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11-09-2010, 10:47 AM
  #57
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Well Gilbert apparently ran our system. Fat load of good that did him.

Paddock also coached the last Phantoms team that went to the playoffs.

Then we bought in Gilbert and the Phantoms went to ****.
Idiot Stick never coached the system used in Philadelphia. He always used his own system, even sometimes against the team's wishes (look at his time when he was head coach with the Marlies). He also used players in the way he saw fit. He was warned on numerous occasions in Toronto that certain players needed to play in order to develop and he often ignored his bosses in Toronto. That was one of the reasons why Burke did not re-up Idiot Stick when his contract was up.

Last year, we saw how much of a putz and a buffoon Idiot Stick was when he sent Maroon and Legein out to play with scrubs on the 4th line and they each ended up getting hurt as a result (Maroon with the concussion and Legein was knocked out of a game late last season).

It's also funny to read that Metzler said Paddock and Idiot Stick are cut from the same cloth. That statement is so incorrect, it's unbelievable where to begin. Paddock has a proven track record of developing NHL talent (look at his time in Binghamton and you'll see he did an outstanding job of developing talent). As well, Paddock has some credibility in that he's not a locker room Nazi and he's never challenged young players to fist fights (Idiot Stick challenged both Maroon and Stephenson to fist fights last season) or thrown young players under the bus when the team loses (Idiot Stick did that regularly last year).

I'm so glad that the cancer within the organization has been cut out. Paddock has his work cut out ahead of him trying to get that fractured locker room repaired. I can see that this season is going to be like Stevens' first year in Philadelphia when he was hired on after replacing Hitchcock - Paddock is there to repair the locker room and someone else will be brought in after wards.

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11-09-2010, 10:51 AM
  #58
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Paddock did have huge fights with Emery on OTT, but Emery was coming late for practice all the time so it was probably deserved

Anyway im pretty sure Stevens is an assistant coach in LA or somewhere so I dont he will be going back to the AHL anytime soon

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11-09-2010, 10:53 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Idiot Stick never coached the system used in Philadelphia. He always used his own system, even sometimes against the team's wishes (look at his time when he was head coach with the Marlies). He also used players in the way he saw fit. He was warned on numerous occasions in Toronto that certain players needed to play in order to develop and he often ignored his bosses in Toronto. That was one of the reasons why Burke did not re-up Idiot Stick when his contract was up.

Last year, we saw how much of a putz and a buffoon Idiot Stick was when he sent Maroon and Legein out to play with scrubs on the 4th line and they each ended up getting hurt as a result (Maroon with the concussion and Legein was knocked out of a game late last season).

It's also funny to read that Metzler said Paddock and Idiot Stick are cut from the same cloth. That statement is so incorrect, it's unbelievable where to begin. Paddock has a proven track record of developing NHL talent (look at his time in Binghamton and you'll see he did an outstanding job of developing talent). As well, Paddock has some credibility in that he's not a locker room Nazi and he's never challenged young players to fist fights (Idiot Stick challenged both Maroon and Stephenson to fist fights last season) or thrown young players under the bus when the team loses (Idiot Stick did that regularly last year).

I'm so glad that the cancer within the organization has been cut out. Paddock has his work cut out ahead of him trying to get that fractured locker room repaired. I can see that this season is going to be like Stevens' first year in Philadelphia when he was hired on after replacing Hitchcock - Paddock is there to repair the locker room and someone else will be brought in after wards.
Well, that's why I said "apparently" running our system. I'm pretty sure someone reported that he did. I haven't seen much evidence of that in games outside of brief glimpses.

It could also be that our system was so butchered by terrible play that it was almost unrecognizable.

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11-09-2010, 11:07 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Flyskippy View Post
Perhaps, but we saw them bloom under Stevens' tutelage.



See pelts' list above, plus Upshall, Seidenberg, Fedoruk, Niittymaki, Jim Vandermeer, Freddy Meyer IV, Ben Eager, Randy Jones, Riley Cote (lest we forget he was never supposed to make it or stick in the NHL), Pitkanen, Ryan Parent, Coburn, Downie, and Powe.
No he didnt develop those guys from pelts list as they played minimal games in the ahl under Stevens and where nhl ready. He didnt develop all these guys you named either. A few he did. Dont think fedoruk and seidenberg played much under either off the top of my head. A goalie you cant count. He ran 3 of those guys you named out of town

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11-09-2010, 11:15 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Paddock did have huge fights with Emery on OTT, but Emery was coming late for practice all the time so it was probably deserved

Anyway im pretty sure Stevens is an assistant coach in LA or somewhere so I dont he will be going back to the AHL anytime soon
There's a difference between arguments and actually challenging your players to fist fights, especially 22 and 23 year olds. Paddock never challenged Emery to a fist fight and Paddock thought so highly of Emery that Holmgren consulted Paddock when the Flyers signed him and Paddock gave a thumbs up about Ray.

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11-09-2010, 11:17 AM
  #62
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No he didnt develop those guys from pelts list as they played minimal games in the ahl under Stevens and where nhl ready. He didnt develop all these guys you named either. A few he did. Dont think fedoruk and seidenberg played much under either off the top of my head. A goalie you cant count. He ran 3 of those guys you named out of town
Check hockeydb.com and get back to me. You can look up Stevens' coaching years and see who was there.

You can count a goalie. The goalie coach helps the head coach by working with the goalie on technique, but the head coach has ultimate say in bringing the goalie along - playing him or not.

I'm stopping here, though. I know better than to bring facts into an argument with you. Your opinion outweighs facts, as I have been told.

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11-09-2010, 11:18 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
There's a difference between arguments and actually challenging your players to fist fights, especially 22 and 23 year olds. Paddock never challenged Emery to a fist fight and Paddock thought so highly of Emery that Holmgren consulted Paddock when the Flyers signed him and Paddock gave a thumbs up about Ray.
Oh I know. I can't believe that Gilberts actually did that. What a moron

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11-09-2010, 11:18 AM
  #64
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Paddock did have huge fights with Emery on OTT, but Emery was coming late for practice all the time so it was probably deserved

Anyway im pretty sure Stevens is an assistant coach in LA or somewhere so I dont he will be going back to the AHL anytime soon
It all depends upon whether he wants to call his shots - even in the A - or if he enjoys being an assistant more. Well, that and if Homer even wants someone other than Paddock in the first place.

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11-09-2010, 11:20 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by flyskippy
Check hockeydb.com and get back to me. You can look up Stevens' coaching years and see who was there.

You can count a goalie. The goalie coach helps the head coach by working with the goalie on technique, but the head coach has ultimate say in bringing the goalie along - playing him or not.
We can agree to disagree about developing a goalie, but then I assume you blame him for Ouellet's lack of development? None of us can be 100% certain how much say he had in giving playing time. That could have come from above (which does happen at the AHL level) or with input from the goalie coach.

And what about high draft picks that didn't develop like Pavel Brendl, Stefan Ruzicka, Alexandre Picard, Francis Lessard, Matt Zultek or Jason Beckett?

You can't give him all the credit for developing the players you listed without holding him responsible for the players that didn't.

That said I think you give him way too much credit for developing some of those players on your list. The high level draft picks would have been successful NHLers with or without him. Some might even argue that they became successful despite Stevens.


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11-09-2010, 11:21 AM
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No point in arguing about Stevens, he wont be leaving the NHL

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11-09-2010, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Flyskippy View Post
Check hockeydb.com and get back to me. You can look up Stevens' coaching years and see who was there.

You can count a goalie. The goalie coach helps the head coach by working with the goalie on technique, but the head coach has ultimate say in bringing the goalie along - playing him or not.

I'm stopping here, though. I know better than to bring facts into an argument with you. Your opinion outweighs facts, as I have been told.
What facts are you bringing? Stop, the head coach has little to do with developing a goalie. Well Fedoruk, vandermeer, downie, powe, coburn, parent, upshall, pitkannen was already an nhl player played minimal games or none at all under stevens in the ahl

Seidenberg-played about a little over a season and had already played 60 games in the nhl before he played under stevens. As I said he developed a few guys who are dime a dozen/fringe nhl players.

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11-09-2010, 12:55 PM
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Pither and Holmstrom have swapped places. Pither centered Hamel/Laliberte; Holmstrom centered Rinaldo/Clackson.
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Welllwood now wearing No. 22. He was skating on LW with Moore and Legein.
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Riley Cote running Phantoms practice. No Paddock or Paterson.
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Cote really skated players hard. Put pucks away for final 1/4 of practice and made guys do sprints. Derian Hatcher also on hand.
Well atleast its a start.

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11-09-2010, 01:01 PM
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Well atleast its a start.
Pither's not being wasted on the fourth line anymore?

Maybe our fourth line will actually have some toughness to it for a change or perhaps some defensive reliability. Or I don't know, be able to operate as a fourth line?

Likewise Pither can be used for offense again.

I love genius concepts. Thank god for Paddock.

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11-09-2010, 01:05 PM
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We can agree to disagree about developing a goalie, but then I assume you blame him for Ouellet's lack of development? None of us can be 100% certain how much say he had in giving playing time. That could have come from above (which does happen at the AHL level) or with input from the goalie coach.

And what about high draft picks that didn't develop like Pavel Brendl, Stefan Ruzicka, Alexandre Picard, Francis Lessard, Matt Zultek or Jason Beckett?

You can't give him all the credit for developing the players you listed without holding him responsible for the players that didn't.

That said I think you give him way too much credit for developing some of those players on your list. The high level draft picks would have been successful NHLers with or without him. Some might even argue that they became successful despite Stevens.
I'm not so high on him that I don't know about his flaws. I just think he's the perfect developmental coach for this team. They need a player-friendly coach at this point whom they can confide in, IMO.

I have my doubts about Stevens and his handling of certain players (you named the ones that did not pan out, though Brendl is Brendl's own fault - no one could motivate that lout). I merely mentioned the ones I felt benefited from his coaching.

As HC stated above, it could be a moot point. The man's in LA in 1st place under Terry Murray.

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11-09-2010, 01:14 PM
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Hopefully Kalinski and Legein get fair treatment now.

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11-09-2010, 01:24 PM
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I'm not so high on him that I don't know about his flaws. I just think he's the perfect developmental coach for this team. They need a player-friendly coach at this point whom they can confide in, IMO.

I have my doubts about Stevens and his handling of certain players (you named the ones that did not pan out, though Brendl is Brendl's own fault - no one could motivate that lout). I merely mentioned the ones I felt benefited from his coaching.

As HC stated above, it could be a moot point. The man's in LA in 1st place under Terry Murray.
Where we disagree is the actual impact Stevens had on the 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders you listed and I certainly won't give him credit for developing a goaltender.

I can't argue with you about Krispy Kreme Brendl. He was a just a complete waste of talent who wasn't willing to put in the effort necessary to take his game to the next level.

That said is a player friendly coach is what the 2 win Phantoms need right now? Maybe a hard kick in the a** is what they need and not being coddled? Personally when it comes to a head coach at the minor league level I like Herb Brooks' quote in Miracle "I'll be your coach, I won't be your friend".

But, yes, it is a moot point as he's in LA.

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11-09-2010, 02:45 PM
  #73
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Pither's not being wasted on the fourth line anymore?

Maybe our fourth line will actually have some toughness to it for a change or perhaps some defensive reliability. Or I don't know, be able to operate as a fourth line?

Likewise Pither can be used for offense again.

I love genius concepts. Thank god for Paddock.
Well maybe Pither has deserved the bump up by his play in practice and or the last few games. Nah that cant be can it? Couldnít be previously he didnít deserve to be on a top 2 line. Nah the sole reason is he was just being underutilized and was to no fault of his own. Thank God for Nodl and Wellwood.

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11-09-2010, 03:08 PM
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Homer is having a good week

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11-09-2010, 03:16 PM
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I want to see Maroon getting a 2nd chance.

Gilbert was really bad, evry****ingwhere.

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