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Flyer forwards: long term 'core'

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11-09-2010, 10:20 AM
  #1
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Flyer forwards: long term 'core'

With Giroux's signing, among forwards what would you consider the 'core' that Flyers would wanna keep long term going forward? Long term being 3-5 years...

Everyone would agree on Richards, Giroux, Carter, Briere.

After that?

JVR has tons of potential but we probably wanna see this season before a decision is made to lock him down long term (and at what salary?).

And here is where it gets controversial... I insist on Hartnell being essential despite his problems last regular season. Why? Cuz he's the closest the Flyers have tp a real power forward. A unique combination of strength and goal scoring, willingness to go into dirty areas with a big body.

Beyond that people could make an argument for Leino as well.

Everyone else is expendable I think. Lock down those seven and then see what's left over for the likes of Powe etc. Zherdev is not the Flyers type.

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11-09-2010, 10:23 AM
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Richards, Carter, Giroux 100% for sure
Briere since we cant move him 100%
Hartnell will at least play out his contract here.
JVR will likely stay a flyer for awhile (has another hyear left on his contract next year)

Hopefully Leino can be kept, and then great bottom 6ers like Powe, Betts, Nodl/Wellwood, Carcillo will likely be here for awhile

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11-09-2010, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Richards, Carter, Giroux 100% for sure
Briere since we cant move him 100%
Hartnell will at least play out his contract here.
JVR will likely stay a flyer for awhile (has another hyear left on his contract next year)

Hopefully Leino can be kept, and then great bottom 6ers like Powe, Betts, Nodl/Wellwood, Carcillo will likely be here for awhile
I REALLY hope that he won't.

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11-09-2010, 10:26 AM
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He has a NTC, and we do need size on the wing

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11-09-2010, 10:34 AM
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He has a NTC, and we do need size on the wing

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11-09-2010, 10:48 AM
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11-09-2010, 10:52 AM
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My 2nd line LW in NHL 11 HUT. 3rd liner is Mitch Fritz. We should acquire him for size: 6'7", 242 lbs.

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11-09-2010, 11:35 AM
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I'd like to see Powe and Nodl become essential parts of the core. It's too soon to say if Wellwood can do it since he's only had a cup of coffee with the team (a damn good cup I might add) but if he can make the jump, his speed is going to factor in quite nicely.

As for JVR, I'm really pulling for this kid to have a productive year this and next so that he can be the big forward when Hartnell's contract is up.

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11-09-2010, 01:16 PM
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Powe is definitely going to be a Flyer for awhile,

Nodl and Wellwood definitely have a foot in the door, but luckily if they falter the phantoms have lots of potential 3rd and 4th liners. Kalinski, Legein, Holmstrom, Testwuide, etc

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11-09-2010, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleary84 View Post
I'd like to see Powe and Nodl become essential parts of the core. It's too soon to say if Wellwood can do it since he's only had a cup of coffee with the team (a damn good cup I might add) but if he can make the jump, his speed is going to factor in quite nicely.

As for JVR, I'm really pulling for this kid to have a productive year this and next so that he can be the big forward when Hartnell's contract is up.
u really think Nodl and Powe are at that level?

I dont think Flyers can necessarily keep all of Hartnell, Powe Nodl JVR and Leino. Have to choose.

As useful as Nodl and Powe are, not sure I'd prioritize them over Leino and Hartnell. The latter two are bona fide Top 6 calibre, while the former are very good 3rd liners...thye may be occasionally promoted to Top 6 to fill in, but that's different from being a bona fide top sixer.

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11-09-2010, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Powe is definitely going to be a Flyer for awhile,

Nodl and Wellwood definitely have a foot in the door, but luckily if they falter the phantoms have lots of potential 3rd and 4th liners. Kalinski, Legein, Holmstrom, Testwuide, etc
Other than Kalinski, do you really consider these guys 3rd and 4th liners, I was under the impression that we had top 6 hopes for at least a few of them.

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11-09-2010, 02:04 PM
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I think the Flyers should trade away all their wingers and just play a bunch of guys at center, that will make them real contenders.....oy. Hartnell stays. Leino stays. JvR stays. Zherdev, take him or leave him. So who is left? Briere, Richards, Giroux, and Carter....eventually someone has to move to fill the wing spot, period. And just an FYI, it ain't Giroux and Briere has been playing on the only line that has brought some continuity.

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11-09-2010, 02:07 PM
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Other than Kalinski, do you really consider these guys 3rd and 4th liners, I was under the impression that we had top 6 hopes for at least a few of them.
Nope, each guy mentioned is a potential role player, 3rd or 4th line. Not one is a potential goal scorer who can be counted on to produce at this point. Wellwood shows some good drive to the net but has one or two years of being a scorer, otherwise he was considered a defensive fwd. Nodl, gotten better but a 3rd line player.

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11-09-2010, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flountown View Post
Other than Kalinski, do you really consider these guys 3rd and 4th liners, I was under the impression that we had top 6 hopes for at least a few of them.
Teswuide has a chance of becoming a Knuble type guy. Legein could become a complimentary 2nd liner, similar to Upshall for example.

Wellwood has speed speed speed but I dont know if will ever be a real top 6 forward. I think he will be a Kapanen like guy (later in career) as a speedy 15 goal scorer and pk guy

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11-09-2010, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Teswuide has a chance of becoming a Knuble type guy. Legein could become a complimentary 2nd liner, similar to Upshall for example.

Wellwood has speed speed speed but I dont know if will ever be a real top 6 forward. I think he will be a Kapanen like guy (later in career) as a speedy 15 goal scorer and pk guy
Each of the players you mentioned had one or two years at a major amateur levle of being a "producer". Both were gambles by Homer but far from being top 6 contributors. Look at Maroon for Testwuide. Legein, this guy is done, AHL player, period. Wellwood has the potential to grow some but still a 3rd line player.

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11-09-2010, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Each of the players you mentioned had one or two years at a major amateur levle of being a "producer". Both were gambles by Homer but far from being top 6 contributors. Look at Maroon for Testwuide. Legein, this guy is done, AHL player, period. Wellwood has the potential to grow some but still a 3rd line player.
I said they have a chance, not they will become.

And really it was no gamble by Holmgren. We traded Ratchuk for Legein, and Ratchuk sucks.
Testwuide was ranked in the top ten college UFAs last year and it cost us nothing to sign except the contract itself. Great moves really even if the players dont pan out. Add Pither who was the 3rd leading scorer in the OHL last year after Hall and Seguin, and I think Holmgren did a fine job of maximizing our assets without a first round pick

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11-09-2010, 02:48 PM
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I said they have a chance, not they will become.

And really it was no gamble by Holmgren. We traded Ratchuk for Legein, and Ratchuk sucks.
Testwuide was ranked in the top ten college UFAs last year and it cost us nothing to sign except the contract itself. Great moves really even if the players dont pan out. Add Pither who was the 3rd leading scorer in the OHL last year after Hall and Seguin, and I think Holmgren did a fine job of maximizing our assets without a first round pick
This is part of the problem or replenishing the system, no picks and you have to resort to other ways to gets guys in to fill the needs of the organization to meet the needs on the ice. It looks like Homer found a diamond in the rough in Bobrovsky, but this team has a huge hole on the wings going forward in the top 9 never mind the top 6.

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11-09-2010, 02:50 PM
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Hopefully we wont be trading any firsts for awhile now.

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11-09-2010, 02:56 PM
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Hopefully we wont be trading any firsts for awhile now.
Buuuuut, you could trade to get some 1st/2nd round picks to help build on the foundation.

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11-09-2010, 03:12 PM
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We have a foundation already

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11-09-2010, 03:25 PM
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We have a foundation already
You did not read properly, build on the foundation with players who can come up cheap and fill roles as contracts expire..

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11-09-2010, 03:29 PM
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You did not read properly, build on the foundation with players who can come up cheap and fill roles as contracts expire..
Yeah my bad. We dont really need to worry about that until Hartnell and Briere are gone. Most teams would love to be in our position right now, as we have 8 top 6 forwards (if you include Zherdev).

And hopefully you arent suggesting trade our existing top 6 forwards for draft picks to try and get more top 6 players for the future? Because that seems very dumb to me

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11-09-2010, 04:01 PM
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u really think Nodl and Powe are at that level?

I dont think Flyers can necessarily keep all of Hartnell, Powe Nodl JVR and Leino. Have to choose.

As useful as Nodl and Powe are, not sure I'd prioritize them over Leino and Hartnell. The latter two are bona fide Top 6 calibre, while the former are very good 3rd liners...thye may be occasionally promoted to Top 6 to fill in, but that's different from being a bona fide top sixer.
For my two cents... While role players in theory can be interchangeable, and are therefore not considered part of the core, the right role players are every bit as necessary as the right core players.

We must remember that role players moved or allowed to walk must be replaced by equal or better role players... and Powe, Betts, etc. are not very highly salaried. Replacement costs for equal talented role players, unless a lucky break is achieved, would be at the same level if not greater.

The goal is to promote in-house talent at bargain Cap hits or stumble upon a fortunate signing such as Betts was -- but it must be noted that Betts was re-signed for a higher contract once he proved his worth -- Powe is at $725K, Betts $700K and Nodl $850K... Homer would be hard pressed to replace that talent at those hits, IMO. And they are collectively under $2.3M.

Carcillo, Lappy and Shelly on the other hand account for over $3.3M and can be more easily replaced, IMO -- Lappy's heart is hard to replace, but he is an over 35 player who we are stuck with anyway -- My point is that certain role players, while cannot replace higher tied skilled core, should not be tossed aside altogether to maintain core players with hopes of replacing them with farm players or cheap FAs.

One of Fred Shero's saying was, "Dancers have to dance and singers have to sing"... All the talent in the World could fail without the proper role players doing their job. While Harnell and Lieno are important... and one could certainly point out that Hartnell is an important role player who has a high contract hit... I would not sacrifice Powe and Betts to keep them. Carcillo and Shelly on the other hand I would move to more easily maintain Powe, Betts, Hartnell and Lieno.

I really like the makeup of the current roster... and if Bob is not a flash in the pan, I really like this team's Cup chances run by these coaches. A long term top system goalie eliminates the one glaring weak spot on the roster... now they don't need stellar D-men to make up for average albeit capable goaltending. And I believe the core and role players can be kept in place for a few seasons... but with little to no leeway.

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11-09-2010, 04:28 PM
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Core among forwards: Richards, Giroux, JVR, Carter and possibly Leino. Briere is older and while important, I think it's more of a situation where the Flyers are essentially stuck with him as he gets older which isn't nec. a bad thing as long as he's productive. Hopefull he'll still be productive late in his career. Hartnell is a good player to have but certainly if you could move him for a piece or if the team really needed cap relief I'd have to think they'd do it. I do agree that role players are just as important to a championship team as the stars. That said Betts and Powe are great role players and the longer you can keep those types around the beter.

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11-09-2010, 05:03 PM
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Id honestly love to see Zherdev have a 50-60 point season, then sign him again for cheap wouldnt be so bad

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