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Carter close to signing 10-year deal (post #441 and #675); Leino update (# 675)

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Old
11-09-2010, 03:05 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
But now we have players who can take up for his load.


Hey, I have no problem signing Carter for 6 mil or less. Just everyone needs to prepare themselves for another 06-07 season. History has showed for pretty much all teams that this is what happens when you put your eggs all in one basket.
06-07 we had 2 mediocre goalies, 1 injury prone first line center, Gagne and Knuble, and a bunch of 2nd season players being counted on for large roles on forward.Not to mention dusters like Stevenson, Savage, Sim and all those worthless bums. With Bobo, and our core we will be fine in 4 season. The main worry would be the D if Coburn and co cant pick up the slack from old Pronger and Timonen

I dont see how having the large core we have now is putting our eggs in one basket. We will have at least 3 baskets on forward in Richards, Giroux and Carter and a great young goalie and a strong defense. I do hope Holmgren doesnt trade any firsts in the next few years though.

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11-09-2010, 03:06 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
People said the same thing when Lupul and Knuble left.

It seemed to work out perfectly fine.
Uhh...Knuble's net presence has been sorely missed since day one.

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11-09-2010, 03:06 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post

Like this:

Richards:
10-11 = 25-26 (this season which Im not counting)
11-12 = 26-27
12-13 = 27-28
13-14 = 28-29
14-15 = 29-30
Age: 25
DOB: 1985/02/11

FTFY.

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Old
11-09-2010, 03:13 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Uhh...Knuble's net presence has been sorely missed since day one.
He isnt doing too well in washington this year. I wonder if its possible we could get trade for him? I would love Knuble in front of the net as Pronger blasted pucks

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11-09-2010, 03:16 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
06-07 we had 2 mediocre goalies, 1 injury prone first line center, Gagne and Knuble, and a bunch of 2nd season players being counted on for large roles on forward.Not to mention dusters like Stevenson, Savage, Sim and all those worthless bums. With Bobo, and our core we will be fine in 4 season. The main worry would be the D if Coburn and co cant pick up the slack from old Pronger and Timonen

I dont see how having the large core we have now is putting our eggs in one basket. We will have at least 3 baskets on forward in Richards, Giroux and Carter and a great young goalie and a strong defense. I do hope Holmgren doesnt trade any firsts in the next few years though.
The strong defense wont be around for awhile longer. With the raises players will be getting they arent going to be able to enforce a defense where all the players can play top 4. Not going to happen.
In the future more players will be getting raises and keeping this offensive depth while increasing all the salaries will be impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Uhh...Knuble's net presence has been sorely missed since day one.

Eh. I do agree, but our powerplay hasnt struggled as much as some people were going to say. I do like Knuble and wish he was here, but I cant say its a huge loss to a point where its backbreaking

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11-09-2010, 03:18 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Actually defensively they have some good core prospects with potential, but potential can either lead to a decent NHL career or a perennial AHL All-Star. The farm system is in shambles though, to say otherwise is putting your head in the sand. If you want to go back to the early 90's after the post-80's run with no Cup it means having to go about things like Pittsburgh or Chicago and not a franchise like Detroit.
Our prospects on the defensive side of things aren't bad. We have a plethora of capable or potentially capable two-way bottom six players (so many that we'll have to let a lot of them go most likely) and we have a few decent d-men potentially. Marshall, Gustafsson, Lehtivouri, and Bourdon represent a very solid group.

The problem with our d-men prospects is, for the most part, a lack of potential top pairing d-men. Short of some bizarrely unpredictable breakout by one of them, we have no foreseeable legitimate top pairing guys in the NHL or in the AHL. After Timonen and Pronger are done or have regressed to the point of not being number one d-men we don't have anyone to replace them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Uhh...Knuble's net presence has been sorely missed since day one.
In all fairness, Knuble has looked like **** this year. He looks like Guerin, old and washed up. He could potentially be a healthy scratch soon.

So we might of just missed out on one good year's worth of production from him. Possibly.

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11-09-2010, 03:24 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
No problem. Carter Coburn and Richards will be turning 26 this season. After this season is over (which by all the ages Im counting 3 years by then) they will be 29 by the start of the 2014-2015 season and mid season be turning 30.

Like this:

Richards:
10-11 = 26-27 (this season which Im not counting)
11-12 = 27-28
12-13 = 28-29
13-14 = 29-30
Well, he'll be 42 in 3 years if I'm not counting the next 14 years.
Seriously, that's the dumbest way to count age that I've seen.

He's 25, he'll be 28 in years, period.

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11-09-2010, 03:25 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Blaine View Post
Uhh...Knuble's net presence has been sorely missed since day one.
Maybe, but can Knuble do this?




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Old
11-09-2010, 03:39 PM
  #109
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in 3 years, ill be 5 years older than I am now

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11-09-2010, 03:53 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Our prospects on the defensive side of things aren't bad. We have a plethora of capable or potentially capable two-way bottom six players (so many that we'll have to let a lot of them go most likely) and we have a few decent d-men potentially. Marshall, Gustafsson, Lehtivouri, and Bourdon represent a very solid group.

The problem with our d-men prospects is, for the most part, a lack of potential top pairing d-men. Short of some bizarrely unpredictable breakout by one of them, we have no foreseeable legitimate top pairing guys in the NHL or in the AHL. After Timonen and Pronger are done or have regressed to the point of not being number one d-men we don't have anyone to replace them.



.
But in regards to the other conversation we have zero prospects to be a top 6 fwd, Nodl is not the answer. Maroon was thought to be but he has failed. At some point there has to be a balance between "go for it now" and utilize the resources you have to continue to find players to fill needs. Let's be honest, no one though Leino was going to produce like he is right now, but that was due to the Red Wings having too much depth at fwd and had to make a move for cap reasons.

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11-09-2010, 03:56 PM
  #111
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in 3 years, ill be 5 years older than I am now
No wonder he was freaking out over the future, with this exponential age growth we should all be dead within the next decade!

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Old
11-09-2010, 04:00 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
He isnt doing too well in washington this year. I wonder if its possible we could get trade for him? I would love Knuble in front of the net as Pronger blasted pucks
Knuble gets better as the year goes on. He had some poor starts to the year for us too.

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Old
11-09-2010, 04:01 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
But in regards to the other conversation we have zero prospects to be a top 6 fwd, Nodl is not the answer. Maroon was thought to be but he has failed. At some point there has to be a balance between "go for it now" and utilize the resources you have to continue to find players to fill needs. Let's be honest, no one though Leino was going to produce like he is right now, but that was due to the Red Wings having too much depth at fwd and had to make a move for cap reasons.
The main reason they traded Leino is because he couldn't stick on their roster. If Leino was playing for them like he has for us then they wouldn't have traded him.

Our forward core is fine. Carter, Richards, Giroux, JVR, and potentially Leino should all be here long-term. Then there's still Hartnell and Briere as well. Even if we lose, say, Hartnell and Leino to free agency eventually we'll still have six top six forwards and there's always free agency and trading routes if we ever need to bolster the offense. Our bottom six will be more then fine for the foreseeable future. So a lack of high-quality forward prospects shouldn't bite us in the but for a while if everything is handled correctly. We also has our 1sts still so it's not as if we have no picks to bolster the prospect pool currently.

I'm concerned about Pronger's contract and a lack of top pairing d-men in the system, but in terms of depth we're fine there as well. If even one of Bobrovsky or Eriksson pan out like we expect then we're set there too. If both pan out then that's even better.

Unless something unforeseeable happens (like Richards suffering a career ending injury or something else like that), there's nothing to worry about until Briere and Pronger get into the tail-end of their contracts and the cap should have gone up considerably by then anyways.

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11-09-2010, 04:12 PM
  #114
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I see people saying that signing Carter to a long-term contract makes him easier to trade...No - absolutely not. That is not how things are done in this league outside of very few, very select occasions. This isn't the NBA. If Carter is signing a big contract - he isn't going anywhere. Period. End of Story. Fin d'histoire.

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11-09-2010, 04:16 PM
  #115
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unless we pull a hossa on him.

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11-09-2010, 04:18 PM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Well, he'll be 42 in 3 years if I'm not counting the next 14 years.
Seriously, that's the dumbest way to count age that I've seen.

He's 25, he'll be 28 in years, period.
What? The whole part of my argument is when Giroux has to be resigned... please re-read everything. Everyone else seemed to have gotten it. Richards turns 26 midway through this year. Period. Its really not that hard. Im not retarded. I showed the math. I wasnt including this year because Giroux's contract AND Carter's contract dont start till next season. Get it?

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11-09-2010, 04:21 PM
  #117
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You have to admit that saying "In 3 years" is very stupid when you are talking about July 1st, 2014.

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11-09-2010, 04:24 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
You have to admit that saying "In 3 years" is very stupid when you are talking about July 1st, 2014.
Really? Out of this whole argument you guys are picking out that... Ok, 3 1/2 years to 4 years. Should I edit my post? lol

But lets not include how we are talking about Carter's new contract (you know, what the point of this whole thread is).

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11-09-2010, 04:31 PM
  #119
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in 3 years, ill be 5 years older than I am now

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11-09-2010, 04:33 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Really? Out of this whole argument you guys are picking out that... Ok, 3 1/2 years to 4 years. Should I edit my post? lol

But lets not include how we are talking about Carter's new contract (you know, what the point of this whole thread is).
the 3 years thing, and then instead of saying 29, saying "almost 30" put up a lot of smoke and mirrors to try and enhance your argument

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11-09-2010, 04:35 PM
  #121
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the 3 years thing, and then instead of saying 29, saying "almost 30" put up a lot of smoke and mirrors to try and enhance your argument
What? They will 29 turning 30 man. Thats how I always put it. This season, Giroux is 22 turning 23, JVR is 21 turning 22....

By the end of Giroux's contract, they will be 30. Thats the whole point of my debate...

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11-09-2010, 04:40 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I see people saying that signing Carter to a long-term contract makes him easier to trade...No - absolutely not. That is not how things are done in this league outside of very few, very select occasions. This isn't the NBA. If Carter is signing a big contract - he isn't going anywhere. Period. End of Story. Fin d'histoire.
I'd have to disagree with you here. I mean, if they sign him to an outrageous long term deal like Kovalchuk's then yeah he won't be easier to trade. But if they sign him to a reasonable deal (both money and years), that would definitely make him easier to trade. In most cases were a star type player is traded it is because he will be too expensive for the team to keep and another teams grabs him as a rental, but if Carter has a reasonable cap hit, and is on the table (which I'm not saying will happen), that may be more enticing for a team that isn't really looking for a rental, but rather is looking for a an investment type deal.

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11-09-2010, 04:43 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Get it?
No.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
What? They will 29 turning 30 man. Thats how I always put it. This season, Giroux is 22 turning 23, JVR is 21 turning 22....
Or Giroux is 22 and JVR is 21, I've never heard of someone who's 22 turning 24. Although that would make your argument pretty flawed.

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11-09-2010, 04:50 PM
  #124
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No.



Or Giroux is 22 and JVR is 21, I've never heard of someone who's 22 turning 24. Although that would make your argument pretty flawed.
You mean 23? But thanks for not quoting the rest of my post. Makes your argument look better also.

Like I said 10 times. It had to do in regards the when Giroux and Carters new contract is in play.

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11-09-2010, 04:59 PM
  #125
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Even if you are referring to July 1st 2014 when Giroux contract expires, Richards is not "almost 30" he is 29 years and 4 months. or 29.33 years. Carter is exactly 29.5

Quote:
You mean 23? But thanks for not quoting the rest of my post. Makes your argument look better also.

Like I said 10 times. It had to do in regards the when Giroux and Carters new contract is in play.
He means that every 22 year old is technically going on 23. We know they arent going on 24.

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