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Carter close to signing 10-year deal (post #441 and #675); Leino update (# 675)

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Old
11-09-2010, 04:05 PM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Even if you are referring to July 1st 2014 when Giroux contract expires, Richards is not "almost 30" he is 29 years and 4 months. or 29.33 years. Carter is exactly 29.5



He means that every 22 year old is technically going on 23. We know they arent going on 24.
Aww **** me. Your right. He will be 29. For some reason I skipped over his current age and made him 26 right now.

Oh well I was wrong. My bad. He will be 29 during the end of that season. Doesnt really change the fact that I agree Carter should NOT be signed to like a 7 year deal over 6 mil.

Cap wise we will be ****ed though. Thats a given

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11-09-2010, 04:23 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I'd have to disagree with you here. I mean, if they sign him to an outrageous long term deal like Kovalchuk's then yeah he won't be easier to trade. But if they sign him to a reasonable deal (both money and years), that would definitely make him easier to trade. In most cases were a star type player is traded it is because he will be too expensive for the team to keep and another teams grabs him as a rental, but if Carter has a reasonable cap hit, and is on the table (which I'm not saying will happen), that may be more enticing for a team that isn't really looking for a rental, but rather is looking for a an investment type deal.
You can't disagree. There's nothing to disagree with.

If he's too expensive for you payroll, you don't sign him at all. If he signs a long-term deal then obviously he's a big part of your plans for at least that long. If the basis is us doing the dirty work for another team, that doesn't happen. Ever.

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Old
11-09-2010, 04:26 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Aww **** me. Your right. He will be 29. For some reason I skipped over his current age and made him 26 right now.

Oh well I was wrong. My bad. He will be 29 during the end of that season. Doesnt really change the fact that I agree Carter should NOT be signed to like a 7 year deal over 6 mil.

Cap wise we will be ****ed though. Thats a given
Sorry to raz on you so much haha. I thought you were intentionally being misleading

I dont want Carter getting over 6 mil either. Or over 6.25 at least

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Old
11-09-2010, 04:32 PM
  #129
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I've aged five years reading this thread!

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Old
11-09-2010, 04:41 PM
  #130
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Hartnell (4.2) - Briere (6.5)- xxx
JVR (1.65) - Richards (5.75) - Giroux (3.75)
xxx- Carter (6.5)- xxx
Shelly (1.1) - Betts (.700) - xxx
xxx

Carle (3.43) - Pronger (4.9)
Timonen (6.3) - Coburn (3.2)
Meszaros (4.0) - Bartulis (.600)


Bobrovsky (1.75)
Leighton (1.55)

Now this is saying we go with a 21 man roster next year. 15/21 slots are filled. ( I dont see Shelly being traded or Leighton being traded)

On offense there needs to be 5 slots filled including 3 top 9.

Free Agents are:

Leino
Zherdev
Powe
Carcillo
Nodl


On defense no slots need to be filled except maybe a 3rd pairing if Bartulis doesnt stay there.

If that cap goes up by 3 mil like some are saying it might that means we have around 6.52 mil to fill 6 spots including 3 top 9 spots. Say they give Leino 3 mil, then its 3.52 for 5 spots. I guess you can make it work with a bunch of minimum wage contracts

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Old
11-09-2010, 04:46 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Sorry to raz on you so much haha. I thought you were intentionally being misleading

I dont want Carter getting over 6 mil either. Or over 6.25 at least
Naw its good. Yea I wasnt trying to falsify information, just a simple mistake by starting him off at 26 (even if I knew he was 25 for some reason) and continued from there. The thing Im focusing on is capspace which will be hard to come by as time goes on and we need to resign a few players.

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11-09-2010, 04:46 PM
  #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Hartnell (4.2) - Briere (6.5)- xxx
JVR (1.65) - Richards (5.75) - Giroux (3.75)
xxx- Carter (6.5)- xxx
Shelly (1.1) - Betts (.700) - xxx
xxx

Carle (3.43) - Pronger (4.9)
Timonen (6.3) - Coburn (3.2)
Meszaros (4.0) - Bartulis (.600)


Bobrovsky (1.75)
Leighton (1.55)

Now this is saying we go with a 21 man roster next year. 15/21 slots are filled. ( I dont see Shelly being traded or Leighton being traded)

On offense there needs to be 5 slots filled including 3 top 9.

Free Agents are:

Leino
Zherdev
Powe
Carcillo
Nodl


On defense no slots need to be filled except maybe a 3rd pairing if Bartulis doesnt stay there.

If that cap goes up by 3 mil like some are saying it might that means we have around 6.52 mil to fill 6 spots including 3 top 9 spots. Say they give Leino 3 mil, then its 3.52 for 5 spots. I guess you can make it work with a bunch of minimum wage contracts
2 of those forward spots are basically guaranteed to go to Wellwood and Nodl if your scenario were to be true.

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Old
11-09-2010, 04:48 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
2 of those forward spots are basically guaranteed to go to Wellwood and Nodl if your scenario were to be true.
Well Nodl needs to be resigned, and Im not one to just hand spots (oh and Im a huge Wellwood fan obviously). I was more basing it off of open spots going into next season.

(oh and if anyone wants to check my math, please go ahead )

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Old
11-09-2010, 04:53 PM
  #134
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whenever someone posts salaries i see pronger at 4.9 and it makes me lol.

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Old
11-09-2010, 05:00 PM
  #135
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I say between 5.75 and 6.2M a year 6-7 years deal.

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Old
11-09-2010, 05:02 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Hartnell (4.2) - Briere (6.5)- xxx
JVR (1.65) - Richards (5.75) - Giroux (3.75)
xxx- Carter (6.5)- xxx
Shelly (1.1) - Betts (.700) - xxx
xxx

Carle (3.43) - Pronger (4.9)
Timonen (6.3) - Coburn (3.2)
Meszaros (4.0) - Bartulis (.600)


Bobrovsky (1.75)
Leighton (1.55)

Now this is saying we go with a 21 man roster next year. 15/21 slots are filled. ( I dont see Shelly being traded or Leighton being traded)

On offense there needs to be 5 slots filled including 3 top 9.

Free Agents are:

Leino
Zherdev
Powe
Carcillo
Nodl


On defense no slots need to be filled except maybe a 3rd pairing if Bartulis doesnt stay there.

If that cap goes up by 3 mil like some are saying it might that means we have around 6.52 mil to fill 6 spots including 3 top 9 spots. Say they give Leino 3 mil, then its 3.52 for 5 spots. I guess you can make it work with a bunch of minimum wage contracts
Hartnell (4.2) - Briere (6.5)- Leino
JVR (1.65) - Richards (5.75) - Giroux (3.75)
Nodl- Carter (6.5)- Welwood
Shelly (1.1) - Betts (.700) - Powe
Holmstrem?

Carle (3.43) - Pronger (4.9)
Timonen (6.3) - Coburn (3.2)
Meszaros (4.0) - Bartulis (.600)


Bobrovsky (1.75)
Leighton (1.55)

The future does not bode very well for JvR I dont think. If Carter does get this big contract and with the Giroux signing, along with Leino signed and the guys that play for peanuts, I don't see how JvR fits under the cap when his ELC is up expecting that his play will be improved by that time and he will be needing a larger contract

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Old
11-09-2010, 05:16 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Hartnell (4.2) - Briere (6.5)- Leino
JVR (1.65) - Richards (5.75) - Giroux (3.75)
Nodl- Carter (6.5)- Welwood
Shelly (1.1) - Betts (.700) - Powe
Holmstrem?

Carle (3.43) - Pronger (4.9)
Timonen (6.3) - Coburn (3.2)
Meszaros (4.0) - Bartulis (.600)


Bobrovsky (1.75)
Leighton (1.55)

The future does not bode very well for JvR I dont think. If Carter does get this big contract and with the Giroux signing, along with Leino signed and the guys that play for peanuts, I don't see how JvR fits under the cap when his ELC is up expecting that his play will be improved by that time and he will be needing a larger contract
I don't think we have to worry too much about JVR just yet. Let us say he improves a bit this year, although so far he is behind his pace from last year.

He would have to have a serious breakout year, somewhat like Giroux has been doing to get a large contract. Even then we would probably extended him to something modest halfway through next season. And if he has such a great breakout year that we can't sign him, he will be easily trade-able.

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Old
11-09-2010, 05:18 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by MrHockey1982 View Post
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/spor...th_Flyers.html


At the bottom of the article. Thoughts?
Great News!! Cannot wait

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Old
11-09-2010, 05:25 PM
  #139
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Heh, Hovercraft bringing the logic in a sea of retardation. I mean, he spent 5 games or so on Richie's wing this year, has spent a couple others on wing, and been outstanding in his games at C, what the heck do people want?

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Old
11-09-2010, 05:47 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Heh, Hovercraft bringing the logic in a sea of retardation. I mean, he spent 5 games or so on Richie's wing this year, has spent a couple others on wing, and been outstanding in his games at C, what the heck do people want?
Well thats alittle harsh. Not all of us have to be super Carter fans. What some of us agree on is that he is worth give or take 6 mil. 6.5 mil in my mind is too much for what he brings.

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11-09-2010, 05:49 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Heh, Hovercraft bringing the logic in a sea of retardation. I mean, he spent 5 games or so on Richie's wing this year, has spent a couple others on wing, and been outstanding in his games at C, what the heck do people want?
It's simple - People see Wash and Pitt with Ovechkin and Crosby and think that we should have a player like that. Thus we have extreme expectations for our 'top goal' scorer. People hear that term and just think of the insane talents, which aren't the case. Anything less than matching those players is seemed as horrible for our 'top goal scorer'.

I personally think Carter is great and during the whole trade fiasco of the summer the only person I'd be OK with a trade for was Bobby Ryan, simply cause I'm gay for Bobby Ryan, and no other reason.

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11-09-2010, 05:58 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Well thats alittle harsh. Not all of us have to be super Carter fans. What some of us agree on is that he is worth give or take 6 mil. 6.5 mil in my mind is too much for what he brings.
Im not even a big Carter fan, I like Richards and Giroux more, But I know how valuable he is to this team, and knowing Holmgren any return we got for him in a trade would be horrible anyway.

So many people act like we could trade him for nothing and be a better team for it.

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11-09-2010, 06:23 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Im not even a big Carter fan, I like Richards and Giroux more, But I know how valuable he is to this team, and knowing Holmgren any return we got for him in a trade would be horrible anyway.

So many people act like we could trade him for nothing and be a better team for it.
I feel the same way, he's not my favourite but I do like him and would love to see him just get this over with (and go back to centre) so he doesn't have to think about it. I don't like it when negotiations are done during the season because they're disruptive no matter what anyone says.

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11-09-2010, 07:08 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You can't disagree. There's nothing to disagree with.

If he's too expensive for you payroll, you don't sign him at all. If he signs a long-term deal then obviously he's a big part of your plans for at least that long. If the basis is us doing the dirty work for another team, that doesn't happen. Ever.
No, no, no, totally misinterpreted what I said. I'm not saying that they are signing him to make it easier to trade. I am saying that if he is signed, it would be easier to trade him. Not like they sign him tomorrow so they can trade him at the deadline, but if they sign him tomorrow it would be easier to trade him. I even said in my last post that you quoted that I wasn't saying that this would happen, just that it would be easier if the situation did arise.

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Old
11-09-2010, 07:19 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
No, no, no, totally misinterpreted what I said. I'm not saying that they are signing him to make it easier to trade. I am saying that if he is signed, it would be easier to trade him. Not like they sign him tomorrow so they can trade him at the deadline, but if they sign him tomorrow it would be easier to trade him. I even said in my last post that you quoted that I wasn't saying that this would happen, just that it would be easier if the situation did arise.
Considering it never happens, no.


Teams generally don't want to take on huge contracts for a very long time and be giving up assets at that.

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11-09-2010, 07:34 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Considering it never happens, no.


Teams generally don't want to take on huge contracts for a very long time and be giving up assets at that.
I wouldn't say it's impossible (though I know you said "generally"); an up-and-coming team like LA or St-Louis has prospect assets to burn (colloquially speaking), or pretty much any Canadian team east of the Rockies would jump at the chance to deal for a centre with size. In most cases, the Flyers would have to take on some salary in return.

But I don't want to trade Carter.

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Old
11-09-2010, 07:38 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Considering it never happens, no.


Teams generally don't want to take on huge contracts for a very long time and be giving up assets at that.
Did you even read the post that you quoted originally? I said that if they signed him to a reaosnable deal, not a huge deal, it would be easier. I never said that if they sign him to a huge deal it would be easier to trade, nor did I say that they are signing him to trade him. All I said was that if they signed him to a reasonable deal, it would be easier to trade, and I don't think that you can really argue that a 30-40 goal scorer at a reasonable contract would not be easier to trade than that same player without a contract.

Think about it. Pick a comparable player to Carter...I don't know, maybe Zach Parise (if he's not comparable then just fill in the blank). He is young, has promise, has shown he can score, etc. If he had, say a five year deal at five million (not saying that that is what Carter will get, just picking a number that seems reasonable for the caliber player), I'd think that would be easier to deal than the same guy with an expiring contract where his next contract is presumed to be a "big money" type deal. Again, not saying this will happen or that it should happen, just saying that in theory if he is signed for a reasonable amount, he would be easier to trade.

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11-09-2010, 08:11 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Did you even read the post that you quoted originally? I said that if they signed him to a reaosnable deal, not a huge deal, it would be easier. I never said that if they sign him to a huge deal it would be easier to trade, nor did I say that they are signing him to trade him. All I said was that if they signed him to a reasonable deal, it would be easier to trade, and I don't think that you can really argue that a 30-40 goal scorer at a reasonable contract would not be easier to trade than that same player without a contract.

Think about it. Pick a comparable player to Carter...I don't know, maybe Zach Parise (if he's not comparable then just fill in the blank). He is young, has promise, has shown he can score, etc. If he had, say a five year deal at five million (not saying that that is what Carter will get, just picking a number that seems reasonable for the caliber player), I'd think that would be easier to deal than the same guy with an expiring contract where his next contract is presumed to be a "big money" type deal. Again, not saying this will happen or that it should happen, just saying that in theory if he is signed for a reasonable amount, he would be easier to trade.
And teams don't trade for players with term. It has happened in very select and rare occasions, and those who ended up trading the player it hasn't worked out for them at all whatsoever. Teams don't want to be tied down like that and be giving up assets (assets = eventual cheap labor).

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11-09-2010, 08:20 PM
  #149
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I don't get why everyone wants to move Carter. The guy's a damn fine hockey player. He's a big body that can skate like the wind, plays exceptional defense and is a 40 goal scorer. You don't give those guys up. He's been misused for part of the year, but that's Laviolette's error. I seriously don't understand the Carter hate.

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11-09-2010, 08:34 PM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
I don't get why everyone wants to move Carter. The guy's a damn fine hockey player. He's a big body that can skate like the wind, plays exceptional defense and is a 40 goal scorer. You don't give those guys up. He's been misused for part of the year, but that's Laviolette's error. I seriously don't understand the Carter hate.
He doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve and he isn't an obviously gritty or aggressive guy. He isn't lion hearted in teh same way Richards is, but people don't give him credit for having any fortitude at all. He could've been playing on two broken hips last year and people would've been underwhelmed.

He also is the kind of player who will produce well statistically over long stretches but isn't a clutch go to scorer IMO. This frustrates people since when you look at his totals it seems like he should be the offensive weapon of choice.

And going from the accounts of four people I know who have never met each other (but have all met Jeff Carter) he is kind of a dick in person.

Just my opinion obviously.

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