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Flyer forwards: long term 'core'

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Old
11-09-2010, 06:15 PM
  #26
mypunkrock
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Core players: Richards, Carter, Roo, Coburn, Mez, Carle.
Fringe players: Leino, JvR, Betts, Powe, Nodl, Carcillo, Hartnell.
Potential: Bob.

I see Powe and Nodl being kept around. Obviously Nodl has been kept around long after many here wrote him off. I'm not reiterating all the things I have to say about Powe.

Carcillo will be gone. Shelley will be gone. Betts is a tough call, but I could see Kalinski replacing him. Hartnell will likely be kept based on the fact he's a power forward and because he can agitate (important if we remove Carcillo). Leino is all good and dangly, but he may very well price himself out of a future here, depending on his performance. JvR is... JvR, and needs to step it up.

I see this team as fairly set as long as it continues to have success. Little reason to turn over the rosters, even with Holmgren in the captain's chair.

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11-09-2010, 07:20 PM
  #27
JVR21
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Pronger and Timonen not core? JVR not potential?

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11-09-2010, 08:16 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
Id honestly love to see Zherdev have a 50-60 point season, then sign him again for cheap wouldnt be so bad
Is this even a serious comment? Zherdev came back to the NHL in order to prove himself, yes, but if he does indeed do that, he will want to be paid for sure. If Z has a decent enough year there is absolutely zero chance the Flyers will be able to resign him.

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11-09-2010, 08:28 PM
  #29
MillerTime2181
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Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
Is this even a serious comment? Zherdev came back to the NHL in order to prove himself, yes, but if he does indeed do that, he will want to be paid for sure. If Z has a decent enough year there is absolutely zero chance the Flyers will be able to resign him.
And that money can be used on Leino who I think is a great fit on the Flyers. Re-up Leino and Carter. Let Zherdev walk and fill that spot with a Phantom or another role-playing veteran with some scoring touch.

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11-09-2010, 09:35 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by usahockey22flyers View Post
Id honestly love to see Zherdev have a 50-60 point season, then sign him again for cheap wouldnt be so bad
He wouldn't sign for cheap, but I would like to see Z here for awhile :/ But pretty much every news report says its a one and done, for obvious reasons. Im happy he's here, I've always had a soft spot for him, even through all of his ****.

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11-09-2010, 09:59 PM
  #31
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Thank god I was not drinking a beverage while reading this thread...

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Old
11-09-2010, 10:26 PM
  #32
mypunkrock
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Originally Posted by JVR21 View Post
Pronger and Timonen not core? JVR not potential?
Pronger, Timonen, and Briere cannot be moved. They on on the tail ends of their respective careers. They are for the immediate future.

JvR is fringe until he starts executing.

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Old
11-09-2010, 10:49 PM
  #33
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Jody Shelley would be the core of this team if it resembled a doughnut.

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Old
11-09-2010, 10:59 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mypunkrock View Post
Pronger, Timonen, and Briere cannot be moved. They on on the tail ends of their respective careers. They are for the immediate future.

JvR is fringe until he starts executing.
And IMO that is exactly how a team should be constructed... Players in their prime or late career who can add experience and mentor while contributing a great deal... Players who are emerging as stars/superstars who will be taking over the team and becoming big play guys on a regular basis... and young players who are maturing and learning, and poised to either take their place or be forced to step aside.

With this process a team can continue to be a steady force and in the hunt for the Cup every season... The Seventies and Eighties Flyers were good examples of this method and went to six Cup finals over a 14 or so year period.

I see Briere as being in his prime years and our #1a/#1b D-men being able to apply their experience in an energy efficient manner... with the next generation of D-men watching and learning... for a few years going forward. I seriously don't see a huge decline in their play coming over the rest of their contracts as long as they keep their health and legs. They may not be the forces they are right now, but FWIW I see them as holding their own throughout... based on their history to-date.

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Old
11-09-2010, 11:04 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by MillerTime2181 View Post
And that money can be used on Leino who I think is a great fit on the Flyers. Re-up Leino and Carter. Let Zherdev walk and fill that spot with a Phantom or another role-playing veteran with some scoring touch.
Yeah my feeling is it doesnt matter how many points Z scores, he is not a Philly type player. He's fine as long as they can afford him, the moment they cant, he can hit the road.

All of seven forwards .. incl Leino, Hartnell, JVR... are more valuable and core than Z.

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11-10-2010, 02:39 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by CavemanLawyer View Post
He wouldn't sign for cheap, but I would like to see Z here for awhile :/ But pretty much every news report says its a one and done, for obvious reasons. Im happy he's here, I've always had a soft spot for him, even through all of his ****.
Zherdev's goal vs. the Caps is why he's here, and might be re-signed too. Not all our players can just snipe an easy goal on a 2 on 1....

The guy has gamebreaking ability that will really help us, as it already has, in close games vs. good teams. He's improving and playing Lavy's system better. And he's young too, it's not like he's Guerin...

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11-10-2010, 05:46 AM
  #37
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I guess if Zherdev enjoys his time here he could sign for a moderate price, but to keep both him and Leino a D would have to be moved

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Old
11-10-2010, 06:09 AM
  #38
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If Z has any success this year, he's going to be looking for 4 mil easy. Which just isn't going to work.

I really like a lineup with nodl & wellwood in it, minus carcillo & shelley. It's cheaper and better and really fits lavy's full pressure system. Less dumb penalties as well.

Powe is forchecking machine that can kill penalties, and he's cheap, no reason to go more expensive.

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Old
11-10-2010, 08:43 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Yeah my bad. We dont really need to worry about that until Hartnell and Briere are gone. Most teams would love to be in our position right now, as we have 8 top 6 forwards (if you include Zherdev).

And hopefully you arent suggesting trade our existing top 6 forwards for draft picks to try and get more top 6 players for the future? Because that seems very dumb to me
The CBA is going to have an impact on how teams operate. Obviously the Flyers can run up against the cap and pay whatever money, but doesn't this also risk the possibility of a team having too many players locked into long term deals? IMO the good NHL business/compete for Cup model is to have a group of players who make max money, a couple players who are a couple years in and are still under entry level contracts, a couple UFA players signed to short term deals, and a system to replenish the needs as they occur.

Over the past two years the Flyers have had to move Upshall and Gagne due to cap limitations and then bring in Bill Guerin on a tryout basis to fill a void. Unexpected things like Laperriere and Leighton occur and then the team is screwed because they have no players to fill those roles under the cap. Look at how the Red Wings operate and how the Devils have been successful up until ownership made Lamoriello go out and trade for Kovalchuk and then give him an outrageous contract. There has to be a balance of youth, vets, and prospects otherwise you are going to spend $55mill on 15 players and not be able to address other needs.

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Old
11-10-2010, 08:48 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
Is this even a serious comment? Zherdev came back to the NHL in order to prove himself, yes, but if he does indeed do that, he will want to be paid for sure. If Z has a decent enough year there is absolutely zero chance the Flyers will be able to resign him.
And if he plays like he did during the first ten game, bye, bye Nik. Either way he is a rental most likely. For all the talent Zherdev possesses I would prefer to see Leino signed, he brings more to the team and has proven he can play in the playoffs.

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Old
11-10-2010, 08:50 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
For my two cents... While role players in theory can be interchangeable, and are therefore not considered part of the core, the right role players are every bit as necessary as the right core players.

We must remember that role players moved or allowed to walk must be replaced by equal or better role players... and Powe, Betts, etc. are not very highly salaried. Replacement costs for equal talented role players, unless a lucky break is achieved, would be at the same level if not greater.

The goal is to promote in-house talent at bargain Cap hits or stumble upon a fortunate signing such as Betts was -- but it must be noted that Betts was re-signed for a higher contract once he proved his worth -- Powe is at $725K, Betts $700K and Nodl $850K... Homer would be hard pressed to replace that talent at those hits, IMO. And they are collectively under $2.3M.

Carcillo, Lappy and Shelly on the other hand account for over $3.3M and can be more easily replaced, IMO -- Lappy's heart is hard to replace, but he is an over 35 player who we are stuck with anyway -- My point is that certain role players, while cannot replace higher tied skilled core, should not be tossed aside altogether to maintain core players with hopes of replacing them with farm players or cheap FAs.

One of Fred Shero's saying was, "Dancers have to dance and singers have to sing"... All the talent in the World could fail without the proper role players doing their job. While Harnell and Lieno are important... and one could certainly point out that Hartnell is an important role player who has a high contract hit... I would not sacrifice Powe and Betts to keep them. Carcillo and Shelly on the other hand I would move to more easily maintain Powe, Betts, Hartnell and Lieno.

I really like the makeup of the current roster... and if Bob is not a flash in the pan, I really like this team's Cup chances run by these coaches. A long term top system goalie eliminates the one glaring weak spot on the roster... now they don't need stellar D-men to make up for average albeit capable goaltending. And I believe the core and role players can be kept in place for a few seasons... but with little to no leeway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
And IMO that is exactly how a team should be constructed... Players in their prime or late career who can add experience and mentor while contributing a great deal... Players who are emerging as stars/superstars who will be taking over the team and becoming big play guys on a regular basis... and young players who are maturing and learning, and poised to either take their place or be forced to step aside.

With this process a team can continue to be a steady force and in the hunt for the Cup every season... The Seventies and Eighties Flyers were good examples of this method and went to six Cup finals over a 14 or so year period.

I see Briere as being in his prime years and our #1a/#1b D-men being able to apply their experience in an energy efficient manner... with the next generation of D-men watching and learning... for a few years going forward. I seriously don't see a huge decline in their play coming over the rest of their contracts as long as they keep their health and legs. They may not be the forces they are right now, but FWIW I see them as holding their own throughout... based on their history to-date.
Some of the best points in this thread.

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