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Carter close to signing 10-year deal (post #441 and #675); Leino update (# 675)

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Old
11-10-2010, 09:54 AM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
The guy I would love to see in Philly is Simmonds from LA, he is a RW and could be a nice complement on a line with JvR-Giroux-Simmonds. Bottom line it is guys like that who also help get you production from the points too, most goalies who can see a puck from that far out will make it 10/10, put a big body in front and Pronger puts up another 10-15 goals from the defense with his shot.
Simmonds, and my favorite prospect Kozun and a defensemen seems like it could happen for Carter. Or as usual am I assuming that's not too much.

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11-10-2010, 10:15 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
But both those players are better with the puck than Carter, thus why Laviolette has them at center and Carter on the wing. This is the coach who has made this decision, not a bunch of guys/gals speculating at where a player should play. He sees these guys play, evaluates the positions where they fit and puts them for what is best for the team.
and its the coach and GM who see Carter as an integral part of our future, and dont have a personal vendetta against him for no apparent reason like 1 guy/gal around here

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11-10-2010, 10:15 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Is that going against the theory of how Homer built this team this year, defense out? Carle has been a solid player who plays well and benefits from Pronger. Maybe if Meszaros has a good year and shows he can handle more minutes he and Carle are put out as available and Homer gets the best return for one or the other?

And Hartnell.....he has his game back, do not trade him, they need his presence at the fwd position otherwise they become even more weak on the wings along the boards and getting players to the dirty areas of the ice, if JvR flips the switch sometime soon that could really boost the strength on the LW side of the ice.
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Moving Hartnell only weakens a position of weakness. Who on this team is willing to go to the net and dig for pucks? Hartnell, Leino.....Briere but he is too small, same with Giroux and you would prefer them to be feeding pucks from the boards....Richards, maybe but it is not his game. Carter, nope, he avoids this style of play, prefers the perimeter, same with JvR. Powe? Yes but again, size. To score goals from the points you need guys like Hartnell to know their role, moving him regardless of his contract would be a mistake.

And then take into consideration he has 4 goals, 5 assists(9pts) and is a +5 playing on what is the best line of this team presently and during the playoffs......uhhh, no thanks.
Huh?

Weakness on the wings is probably the EASIEST position IN THE NHL to fill in. Wingers are plentiful and usually cheap, and even decent centers can move to wing and usually be just as effective (Briere for example). We can sign a Knuble type for cheap, but finding a 30-40 goal scorer is VERY difficult.

Moving Hartnell might weaken the wings, but winger depth doesnt win cups. Center depth, defense and goalies win cups.

Plus, JVR might benefit from being moved into the PWF role full time. To say he doesnt have size is ridiculous. He has the size, he just hasn't learned how to use it yet.

This is a gritty team, by removing Hartnell, we still have grit, and now CAP SPACE to re-sign MORE IMPORTANT PLAYERS.

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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Briere and Giroux can easily play wing to let Carter back at C
Exactly, with Briere or Giroux on the wings, our wings are still very strong.

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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
I've been a HUGE Hartnell hater over the last two years. But when he plays his game he's an essential part of this team. We have no other forward who does what he does, and it's something we need. If I could I'd add another forward that brings his skill set.

He seems to have a new attitude and I like it. I also believe (this isn't to be found in articles but I've heard it lots of places) he's been asked to waive multiple times and has always declined. So I think any talk of trading him to open space is moot.

IMO, Hartnell at 4.25, when he's playing like he currently is, is a better value than Carter at 6.5+.
I completely disagree. Carter carries a line by himself, and Hartnell is an expensive role player. In the new NHL, the best teams have good Centers. Hartnell can be replaced more easily then Carter.

Like I said before, investing in Carter is investing in an entire LINE. I am convinced Carter can produce with Powe and Nodl on his line. Yet Hartnell NEEDS talent around him to do anything. In cap crunches, the role players should go first. Carter just needs grinders who can get him the puck.

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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
I'm not sure exactly how it should work. But it's not just an issue of putting Carter at center if that's his best position. You want to get the maximum quality from those 4 players (Richards added) that you can, that MAY mean Carter on the wing even if he's better at center.
Absolutly, but to me, Richie and Carter are the top centers and Briere is a godo center AND A GOOD WINGER. He has just as many point at ES on the wing then down the middle, so why inconvience Carter just to stick Briere in the middle? It's ridiculous. Briere can play both positions just as well (statistically, as Briere is a PP beast to begin with) but Carter is clearly a better center. It only makes SENSE to move briere or giroux to the wing. I'd move Briere since he can play both spots well and Giroux is on fire right now, so I'd leave him where he is.

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11-10-2010, 10:15 AM
  #179
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Cartsiephan talking about trading Carter? Wow, wasn't expecting that.

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11-10-2010, 10:17 AM
  #180
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ahh forget it...

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11-10-2010, 10:26 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
I completely disagree. Carter carries a line by himself, and Hartnell is an expensive role player. In the new NHL, the best teams have good Centers. Hartnell can be replaced more easily then Carter.

Like I said before, investing in Carter is investing in an entire LINE. I am convinced Carter can produce with Powe and Nodl on his line. Yet Hartnell NEEDS talent around him to do anything. In cap crunches, the role players should go first. Carter just needs grinders who can get him the puck.
This is my problem with giving him a crazy cap hit for the next 5+ years. He is a line by himself. What players does he make better? As a center you're supposed to get your linemates involved. He does not. It's like there is no one playing with him most of the time. Centers that are on the upper echelon of the pay scale deserve because they're scoring goals AND setting up their linemates. On offense Carter is a one trick pony, and paying him anything more than he's making now would be a mistake, IMO.

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11-10-2010, 10:28 AM
  #182
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Last week, Pronger took a shot and scored because Carter was screening the goalie. In the playoffs in the game where Carter broke his other foot it was on a shot from Pronger that hit Carter's foot as he screened the goalie. So I have to ask, is this where a perimeter player plays! Is the top of the crease now known as the perimeter?

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11-10-2010, 10:29 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
and its the coach and GM who see Carter as an integral part of our future, and dont have a personal vendetta against him for no apparent reason like 1 guy/gal around here
Relax Francis, it is just an opinion about how the future of the Flyers could look and a direct response to the fact that the coach values Carter at wing because Giroux is better suited at that position which flies in the face of Carter is better at center than choices 1, 2, and 3. It certainly could have an impact as to whether Carter is resigned in Philly or moved it the coach feels the value of the players he has on the roster includes the centers being: 1) Richards, 2) Briere, 3) Giroux, and 4) Carter.

I do not understand why if someone feels the franchise might be better off getting value for a player to fill needs is a vendetta. It is just a difference in how you and myself view the assets on the roster, not how the GM is going to act on it. How the coach has decided to use his assets is a fact, it is Giroux at center and Carter at wing because that is what is best for the team.

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11-10-2010, 10:31 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Cartsiephan talking about trading Carter? Wow, wasn't expecting that.
It is a Carter thread, what do you expect to let the Carter frenzy reach maximum levels without some type of intervention?

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11-10-2010, 10:34 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Relax Francis, it is just an opinion about how the future of the Flyers could look and a direct response to the fact that the coach values Carter at wing because Giroux is better suited at that position which flies in the face of Carter is better at center than choices 1, 2, and 3. It certainly could have an impact as to whether Carter is resigned in Philly or moved it the coach feels the value of the players he has on the roster includes the centers being: 1) Richards, 2) Briere, 3) Giroux, and 4) Carter.

I do not understand why if someone feels the franchise might be better off getting value for a player to fill needs is a vendetta. It is just a difference in how you and myself view the assets on the roster, not how the GM is going to act on it. How the coach has decided to use his assets is a fact, it is Giroux at center and Carter at wing because that is what is best for the team.
Because the majority of your posts on this board revolve around:

1) Criticizing Carter... because apparently no one else was doing the job.

2) Talking about trading Carter.

You might have some credibility as an objective observer in this thread, but you've ruined that with the level of BS you've spewed making your case against Carter.

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11-10-2010, 10:34 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Last week, Pronger took a shot and scored because Carter was screening the goalie. In the playoffs in the game where Carter broke his other foot it was on a shot from Pronger that hit Carter's foot as he screened the goalie. So I have to ask, is this where a perimeter player plays! Is the top of the crease now known as the perimeter?
If Carter was more consistent at getting to the net he would increase his goals and help his game, but watch him when he skates around the ice when he gets a chance to set up the cycle....both he and JvR are guilty of it, they shy away from this area and prefer to set up along the boards and take the bad angle shots, which is not necessarily always a bad thing especially when you have established offensive zone possession, but with their size and reach they could make a very good living in the crease area.

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11-10-2010, 10:36 AM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
It is a Carter thread, what do you expect to let the Carter frenzy reach maximum levels without some type of intervention?
Case in point... Cartsiephan, the white knight of rationality, is necessary to stemming the evil tide of Carter love.

It's a joke.

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11-10-2010, 10:37 AM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
If Carter was more consistent at getting to the net he would increase his goals and help his game, but watch him when he skates around the ice when he gets a chance to set up the cycle....both he and JvR are guilty of it, they shy away from this area and prefer to set up along the boards and take the bad angle shots, which is not necessarily always a bad thing especially when you have established offensive zone possession, but with their size and reach they could make a very good living in the crease area.
Because he's a shooter dude.

In all seriousness, SAME crap said about Gagne for *ing years. Then, of course, he goes to the net and sets a screen (as he does with regularity by the way, thus how he broke his foot last year), and this is the crap you say.

The guy can't win, because you're a biased Carter hater.

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11-10-2010, 10:48 AM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Because the majority of your posts on this board revolve around:

1) Criticizing Carter... because apparently no one else was doing the job.

2) Talking about trading Carter.

You might have some credibility as an objective observer in this thread, but you've ruined that with the level of BS you've spewed making your case against Carter.
Two words for you: Claude Giroux.

And what exactly are you talking about? It is a thread about Carter and his contract, I am offering a differing opinion that could the organization be better off if Briere or Carter was moved to get a natural winger plus picks and then gave example of why each choice would be more beneficial to the long term outlook of the organization. It is an opinion and so long as someone wants to fluff Carter as to why he should be signed to a multi-year deal I will continue to offer another option unless there is reason to change that opinion.

So shoot, why should I change my opinion about getting a high value in return for Carter in a trade in lieu of signing him to another max contract on a team full of them?

Why should you do that when the team functioned well without him in the playoffs and Homer has it set that he is building from the defense out?

Why not discuss the possible options of what you could get in return for Carter to improve a weakness on the wing AND help get some cap space?

Why just bury the head in the sand and say that Jeff Carter should be signed to a multi-year max contract when he has scored 40 goals once in his career and at the present his is now #4 on the depth chart at center?

I understand your value of what you see in him, but we differ in how we want to allocate his value to this team. I still want him to produce and for the team to be successful he is going to need to buy into his role on this team. That is the bottom line, otherwise my speculation on how I want the Flyers to handle these affairs is merely nothing more than a fans view on a hockey forum.

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11-10-2010, 10:51 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Because he's a shooter dude.

In all seriousness, SAME crap said about Gagne for *ing years. Then, of course, he goes to the net and sets a screen (as he does with regularity by the way, thus how he broke his foot last year), and this is the crap you say.

The guy can't win, because you're a biased Carter hater.
Watch a lot of Gagne's goals and he is within 10ft of the net, and he was never one afraid to get into the goalies pads and dig away. Carters game is not being played within the close proximity of the net, his game is the perimeter and the up ice rush and throw the puck to the net, yes I watch him play, but the problem is outside of that how many times does Carter score goals in close or do you see him setting screens? Let's revisit this after the 'Canes game.

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11-10-2010, 10:52 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Case in point... Cartsiephan, the white knight of rationality, is necessary to stemming the evil tide of Carter love.

It's a joke.
And your welcome.

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11-10-2010, 10:56 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Watch a lot of Gagne's goals and he is within 10ft of the net, and he was never one afraid to get into the goalies pads and dig away. Carters game is not being played within the close proximity of the net, his game is the perimeter and the up ice rush and throw the puck to the net, yes I watch him play, but the problem is outside of that how many times does Carter score goals in close or do you see him setting screens? Let's revisit this after the 'Canes game.
Gagne always floated around the halfboards and top of the circles looking to get the pass and look to release his wrist shot on the net. ALWAYS. And he was always criticized for it around here.

If you're a shooter, you need to stay outside the muck, otherwise there is no way for you to be open to get your shot off.

As just *ing noted, Carter was in front of the net... so your statement concerning his "proximity to the net" is an empirically false statement, and continued evidence that you ignore reality in order to construct your narrative of discontent with regard to Carter.

As ever, you're biased and full of it.

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11-10-2010, 10:58 AM
  #193
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This is my problem with giving him a crazy cap hit for the next 5+ years. He is a line by himself. What players does he make better? As a center you're supposed to get your linemates involved. He does not. It's like there is no one playing with him most of the time. Centers that are on the upper echelon of the pay scale deserve because they're scoring goals AND setting up their linemates. On offense Carter is a one trick pony, and paying him anything more than he's making now would be a mistake, IMO.
Why is it a centers job to make linemates better. Every hockey player has one job to do, contribute to more goals for your team then you do goals against your team. It doesn't matter how it's done. Scott Hartnell had a career year playing on Jeff Carter's wings but the haters will say that's in spite of him. If Carter plays wing it should be on the left side of the ice where (as Coatesy never fails to mention) he would be facing the net. Everyone likes to jump down Carter's throat and it's getting to be a little ridiculous perennial 30 goal scorers don't grow on trees. Who else on this team is a legimate 30 goal a year player?

I also don't know why everyone is so in love with Briere at center, he scores a fair amount of his goals going top shelf from the right side of the ice, not even mentioning his faceoff and defensive short comings.

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11-10-2010, 11:02 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Two words for you: Claude Giroux.
Two words for you: chocolate banana.

Makes just as much sense as a response as "Claude Giroux" to that post.

Quote:
And what exactly are you talking about? It is a thread about Carter and his contract, I am offering a differing opinion that could the organization be better off if Briere or Carter was moved to get a natural winger plus picks and then gave example of why each choice would be more beneficial to the long term outlook of the organization. It is an opinion and so long as someone wants to fluff Carter as to why he should be signed to a multi-year deal I will continue to offer another option unless there is reason to change that opinion.
Dude... All summer... all fall... every time Carter's name is mentioned. We get it, you want to trade him, no matter what the cost. We can get a goalie.... we can get a young wing that isn't even in the same stratosphere of player as Carter.

Briere can play a quite effective wing. We have a natural winger in Claude Giroux -- and, yes, he is a "natural" wing.

You hate Carter, and that's fine. But you infuse your critique of him with half-truths and flat false statements with such regularity that it loses all value. When you have empirical evidence put in front of you proving that what you say is complete **** (for example, the other day when you basically claimed Carter doesn't do anything against the Pens because of the quality of team...), you just roll along.

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11-10-2010, 11:07 AM
  #195
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I am not sure I follow or agree with saying the flyers are weak at wing. they are 7th in goals scored per game this season... I like carter and hope he stays at a good price. But if you want to trade him, at least say for what.

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11-10-2010, 11:11 AM
  #196
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Was Carter's goal against Colorado from the perimeter? Carter has learned to deke the last couple of years. 2 years ago he couldnt score on a breakaway to save his life, and now he can usually pot one

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11-10-2010, 11:15 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
I am not sure I follow or agree with saying the flyers are weak at wing. they are 7th in goals scored per game this season... I like carter and hope he stays at a good price. But if you want to trade him, at least say for what.
They aren't weak anywhere in terms of skaters. But they're a lot weaker at wing than they are at center.

Centers: Briere, Giroux, Richards, Carter
Wingers: Hartnell, JVR, Zherdev, Leino

They have 4 top-6 centers and 4-top-6 wingers. Basically every center could be a teams first line center, Leino and Hartnell are decent first liners, Zherdev and JVR are second liners.

Much stronger center group.

Not it means you trade a center because of that, but it's a factor to consider in terms of how much Carter will cost vs. how much he's worth.

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11-10-2010, 11:17 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Was Carter's goal against Colorado from the perimeter? Carter has learned to deke the last couple of years. 2 years ago he couldnt score on a breakaway to save his life, and now he can usually pot one
Only on breakaways though, he's horrible 1 on 1 against a dman. Same skate to the circle and shoot every time. That's a place where he needs to learn to drive the net.

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11-10-2010, 11:18 AM
  #199
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Why is it a centers job to make linemates better. Every hockey player has one job to do, contribute to more goals for your team then you do goals against your team. It doesn't matter how it's done. Scott Hartnell had a career year playing on Jeff Carter's wings but the haters will say that's in spite of him. If Carter plays wing it should be on the left side of the ice where (as Coatesy never fails to mention) he would be facing the net. Everyone likes to jump down Carter's throat and it's getting to be a little ridiculous perennial 30 goal scorers don't grow on trees. Who else on this team is a legimate 30 goal a year player?

.
Totally agree with this, his value on the wing is shooting from the left wing circle attacking the net with the stick shooting from the center of the ice where there is more room to shoot ON the net.

In regards to the second part of the question really only Briere and Richards have reached that plateau more than once, Giorux has the potential to reach that this year but he is still primarily a setup guy. Hartnell did it once. The hope is also with the depth on the blueline they will be getting more goals from the points too.

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11-10-2010, 11:20 AM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Two words for you: chocolate banana.

Makes just as much sense as a response as "Claude Giroux" to that post.



Dude... All summer... all fall... every time Carter's name is mentioned. We get it, you want to trade him, no matter what the cost. We can get a goalie.... we can get a young wing that isn't even in the same stratosphere of player as Carter.

Briere can play a quite effective wing. We have a natural winger in Claude Giroux -- and, yes, he is a "natural" wing.

You hate Carter, and that's fine. But you infuse your critique of him with half-truths and flat false statements with such regularity that it loses all value. When you have empirical evidence put in front of you proving that what you say is complete **** (for example, the other day when you basically claimed Carter doesn't do anything against the Pens because of the quality of team...), you just roll along.
Yesterday he suggested trading Carter for just picks.

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