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Carter close to signing 10-year deal (post #441 and #675); Leino update (# 675)

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Old
11-10-2010, 02:54 PM
  #251
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I don't think he's disrespected anyone here. He's made counter arguments with what he believes. If it doesn't mesh with your thinking, it's not called disresepct, just a differing opinion. And that's ok.
I disagree. Calling other fans "lemmings" - as if their POV is going to lead them off a cliff - because their view differs is disrespect.

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11-10-2010, 03:15 PM
  #252
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It is quite apparent from the criticisms of this team on these boards that there are not many blind loyalists. Blind haters, yes.

I do not even own a Carter jersey. You want honest? I wear my orange #20 Poulin with the C on it.
Sweet, Poulin was always one of my favorites, total team player. He and Propp were guys I always enjoyed watching play. Many moons ago I was a blind loyalist to Renberg, thought it was a mistake when they traded to get bigger down the middle with Gratton, ironically when he came back to Philly I wondered what happened to the guy, he could not play or stay healthy. Getting Tocchet, another all time favorite, back on the next trade when he was at the end of his career summed it up pretty well. Philly loves their players.

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11-10-2010, 03:19 PM
  #253
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I disagree. Calling other fans "lemmings" - as if their POV is going to lead them off a cliff - because their view differs is disrespect.
It is a joke, like disrespecting Carter is being a hater. Am I insulted because someone wants to call me a hater? Nope, just have a pov that he is a bit overrated by Philly Phans and suggest to consider other options if need be. The idea of a lemming is that they follow through blind loyalty, that stats are the defining reason for keeping a player, because he scored 40 once that he is a perennial 40 goal scorer.

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11-10-2010, 03:38 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
It is a joke, like disrespecting Carter is being a hater. Am I insulted because someone wants to call me a hater? Nope, just have a pov that he is a bit overrated by Philly Phans and suggest to consider other options if need be. The idea of a lemming is that they follow through blind loyalty, that stats are the defining reason for keeping a player, because he scored 40 once that he is a perennial 40 goal scorer.
I haven't seen one person call Jeff Carter a perennial 40-goal scorer.

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11-10-2010, 03:51 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Sweet, Poulin was always one of my favorites, total team player. He and Propp were guys I always enjoyed watching play. Many moons ago I was a blind loyalist to Renberg, thought it was a mistake when they traded to get bigger down the middle with Gratton, ironically when he came back to Philly I wondered what happened to the guy, he could not play or stay healthy. Getting Tocchet, another all time favorite, back on the next trade when he was at the end of his career summed it up pretty well. Philly loves their players.
Screw both of youz....Kerr was the man. You are all "haters" if you say otherwise!

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11-10-2010, 04:07 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
It is a joke, like disrespecting Carter is being a hater. Am I insulted because someone wants to call me a hater? Nope, just have a pov that he is a bit overrated by Philly Phans and suggest to consider other options if need be. The idea of a lemming is that they follow through blind loyalty, that stats are the defining reason for keeping a player, because he scored 40 once that he is a perennial 40 goal scorer.
You are a hater because you choose to disregard anything Jeff Carter has accomplished. You say things like he doesn't make his linemates better, when there is plenty of evidence to show that guys like Hartnell and Briere have had Career years playing besides him. Your entitled to your opinion but you act like people think you are a D bag for no reason. It's fine that you don't like Carter but don't sit there and make points against him and then ignore evidence that proves your point wrong.

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11-10-2010, 04:09 PM
  #257
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Screw both of youz....Kerr was the man. You are all "haters" if you say otherwise!
Not a lot of guys during the 1980's you could hate. Kerr, Howe, Tocchet, Propp, Poulin, Berube, Sinisalo, Nachbaur, Zezel, Dupont, Bridgeman, Linseman, and it goes on....

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11-10-2010, 04:15 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Flyskippy View Post
I disagree. Calling other fans "lemmings" - as if their POV is going to lead them off a cliff - because their view differs is disrespect.
Exactly. Not only that but the problem I have with his POV is he makes things up about Carter that aren't factual to back himself up. I'm sure he has some good points about Carter but they get lost in all the BS and the insults towards other posters.

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11-10-2010, 04:17 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Not a lot of guys during the 1980's you could hate. Kerr, Howe, Tocchet, Propp, Poulin, Berube, Sinisalo, Nachbaur, Zezel, Dupont, Bridgeman, Linseman, and it goes on....
Too be honest initially I wasn't a Kjell fan...but I was young so it was more because he wore a funny Jofa helmet and looked like the President of Strohman Bread Inc. I had a finger hockey game where the plastic stem you slide the player in snapped off..I put in a screw as a fix and that D man was kind of handicapped as result. My friend and I nicknamed him Kjell. Obviously Kjell wasn't bad and really picked it up as the season progressed and then became a solid D man but when we traded Froese for him I thought it was a bad trade...

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11-10-2010, 04:19 PM
  #260
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You are a hater because you choose to disregard anything Jeff Carter has accomplished. You say things like he doesn't make his linemates better, when there is plenty of evidence to show that guys like Hartnell and Briere have had Career years playing besides him. Your entitled to your opinion but you act like people think you are a D bag for no reason. It's fine that you don't like Carter but don't sit there and make points against him and then ignore evidence that proves your point wrong.
Lots of guys have gone on to lead the league in stats and never won a Stanley Cup, that is my opinion of Carter. Disagree if you want but it my opinion. It is also my opinion that if given the right deal it would benefit the Flyers as an organization to contemplate moving him.

It is not about hate or his accomplishments, it is about what your value of player x is in comparison to mine. We differ in what value he has, period. The game of hockey and teh winner and losers are not made up of teams who have the highest scorer, it is made up of pieces, the sum of the parts, which work well together to accomplish the ultimate goal, a Stanley Cup.

Carter's stats have zero to do with whether he is a good player, it is where does he fit in the system and a position and whether his value is greater in what you can get in return versus keeping him long term for a multi-year deal which will again cash strap the team. As a matter of fact the better Carter does the more value he hold and the better his market value is going ot be if a trade go through. The irony is people think he will sign for less if he scores 40 goals or that the organization can afford to do so without losing another possible important spoke in the wheel. In an uncapped league I say sign him to whatever deal you want, but a long term deal for this player greater than 5yrs/$6mill/yr is a mistake IMO and will hurt them in the long run unless they win this year and he is MVP of the SCF's.

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11-10-2010, 04:21 PM
  #261
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Exactly. Not only that but the problem I have with his POV is he makes things up about Carter that aren't factual to back himself up. I'm sure he has some good points about Carter but they get lost in all the BS and the insults towards other posters.

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11-10-2010, 04:23 PM
  #262
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Too be honest initially I wasn't a Kjell fan...but I was young so it was more because he wore a funny Jofa helmet and looked like the President of Strohman Bread Inc. I had a finger hockey game where the plastic stem you slide the player in snapped off..I put in a screw as a fix and that D man was kind of handicapped as result. My friend and I nicknamed him Kjell. Obviously Kjell wasn't bad and really picked it up as the season progressed and then became a solid D man but when we traded Froese for him I thought it was a bad trade...
Samuelsson in this league would get killed. Put the puck on his stick stationary and he could get the outlet pass, he could also clear a crease when it was actually legal, but get him skating and it was like watching a bull in a china shop.

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11-10-2010, 04:48 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
You are a hater because you choose to disregard anything Jeff Carter has accomplished. You say things like he doesn't make his linemates better, when there is plenty of evidence to show that guys like Hartnell and Briere have had Career years playing besides him. Your entitled to your opinion but you act like people think you are a D bag for no reason. It's fine that you don't like Carter but don't sit there and make points against him and then ignore evidence that proves your point wrong.
Cartiephan isn't a hater, he's a troll.

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11-10-2010, 06:31 PM
  #264
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Cartiephan isn't a hater, he's a troll.
If this is how you feel then you are a lemming.

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11-10-2010, 06:40 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Samuelsson in this league would get killed. Put the puck on his stick stationary and he could get the outlet pass, he could also clear a crease when it was actually legal, but get him skating and it was like watching a bull in a china shop.
Bulls are actually quite careful in china shops.


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11-11-2010, 01:18 AM
  #266
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I haven't seen one person call Jeff Carter a perennial 40-goal scorer.
Cartsiephan is quite fond of his paper tigers. It's all he's got, really.

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11-11-2010, 01:26 AM
  #267
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I don't think he's disrespected anyone here. He's made counter arguments with what he believes. If it doesn't mesh with your thinking, it's not called disresepct, just a differing opinion. And that's ok.
His entire approach is based on this ignorant premise that Carter is devoid of critical scrutiny on this board, and, therefore, he is necessary to balance things out. There are multiple things fascinating this claim.

1) The fact that it is factually untrue... Carter has always received plenty of criticism in these parts, and Cartsiephan outed himself as a newbie to the board by adopting this line from the start (a claim he still maintains as you can tell from the persecution complex he is developing).

2) How it gives his criticism a degree of narcissistic self importance that is spectacularly comical. I mean, seriously, who presents themselves as the necessary counter balance to anything on a message board? Who sits down and decides they need to assume position X because everyone else is going too far to the other side.

3) His consistent use of factually incorrect statements (even after proven otherwise).

So, yeah, his entire shtick is disrespectful... he came in without a full understanding of the discussion that has been going on around here for years. Assumed a self-created position of great importance in any discussion about Carter based on that ignorance... and then discusses trading Carter at every possible turn.

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11-11-2010, 04:21 AM
  #268
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Have no problem with that setup, but you are doing two things: 1) moving a guy who is most creative in the center ice to the boards where he cannot control as much of the play and putting the puck on a stick of a guy who has developed some bad habits of trying to make passes that are not in his game, 2) Zherdev and Carter are extremely streaky scorers, they will put up some points but a lot of times they are 6-2 games where they get 3pts in the game, thus when they are hot, they get really hot, but when cold, think Antarctica cold, and Powe would be nothing more than a garbage man which is fine, fits his skillset.
For the record, you're dead right here.

I just get the overwhelming feeling that i won't like this Carter contract much. He's not really earned what he's blatantly going to get.

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11-11-2010, 05:38 AM
  #269
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Lots of guys have gone on to lead the league in stats and never won a Stanley Cup, that is my opinion of Carter. Disagree if you want but it my opinion. It is also my opinion that if given the right deal it would benefit the Flyers as an organization to contemplate moving him.

It is not about hate or his accomplishments, it is about what your value of player x is in comparison to mine. We differ in what value he has, period. The game of hockey and teh winner and losers are not made up of teams who have the highest scorer, it is made up of pieces, the sum of the parts, which work well together to accomplish the ultimate goal, a Stanley Cup.

Carter's stats have zero to do with whether he is a good player, it is where does he fit in the system and a position and whether his value is greater in what you can get in return versus keeping him long term for a multi-year deal which will again cash strap the team. As a matter of fact the better Carter does the more value he hold and the better his market value is going ot be if a trade go through. The irony is people think he will sign for less if he scores 40 goals or that the organization can afford to do so without losing another possible important spoke in the wheel. In an uncapped league I say sign him to whatever deal you want, but a long term deal for this player greater than 5yrs/$6mill/yr is a mistake IMO and will hurt them in the long run unless they win this year and he is MVP of the SCF's.
So Carter sucks because you don't think he will ever win a Cup? Well, I guess Lindros was actually pretty ****** then. Silly me, I thought he was really good all along.

As for Carter doing well...I get the feeling that unless he scores at least one goal per game, you'd still consider him to be garbage.

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11-11-2010, 06:31 AM
  #270
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Why can't ignore Cartsiephan? Like seriously, give me one compelling reason why we shouldn't.

Nobody goes out of their way to talk to an idiot in real life, so why do we do it on a message board?

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11-11-2010, 08:10 AM
  #271
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who was the poster over the summer how had "inside" connectins that said carter will be moved shortly?

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11-11-2010, 08:19 AM
  #272
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who was the poster over the summer how had "inside" connectins that said carter will be moved shortly?
hahaha, oh yeah! and he said all that ******** about signing a goalie.

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11-11-2010, 08:22 AM
  #273
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who was the poster over the summer how had "inside" connectins that said carter will be moved shortly?
flyersguru or something?

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11-11-2010, 08:24 AM
  #274
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flyersguru or something?
That is exactly who it was

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11-11-2010, 09:35 AM
  #275
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Why can't ignore Cartsiephan? Like seriously, give me one compelling reason why we shouldn't.

Nobody goes out of their way to talk to an idiot in real life, so why do we do it on a message board?
Because the point is valid. The Flyers cannot afford to take on another long term contract to a player who may hold the most value at this point for something in return. Giving Carter a $6.5mill/5-10yr deal is a mistake IMHO, there are too many other needs which can be filled with a move which will yield a very high return. Disagree if you want, but this is a perfectly logical business decision that may need to be made since Leino is a valuable asset and a UFA and Homer has made a decision he wants to build from the defense out which I tend to agree with.

Clarke's big thing was build with size down the middle, Chris Gratton comes in, later Primeau....how many Stanley Cups? Now we have a goalie prospect, first since Hextall and Lindbergh, probably the best top 6 defense in the NHL, one line that has shown chemistry to produce, a captain at center who has a huge contract hit, a 33 y/o center with a $6.5mill cap but also a NMC, and a young Claude Giroux who has displaced Carter out of position to wing. If this was a no cap world you sign Carter no matter what, but considering the salary cap, contracts already on the books, no youth in the system to feed back into the big club it is something to seriously consider if the contract wishes of Carter and his agent exceed reasonable expectations of the club, period. Considering Carter is the most valuable asset to move his name should be bounced around as any GM should be doing to see what type of value he can get in return.

If you want to call this idiotic I would care to differ, it is utilizing the most of what you have to continuously improve the club and contend every year. With the depth on defense, an emerging Giroux, a line of Leino-Briere-Hartnell producing and working as a unit, if Carter cannot acclimate to playing wing and sign a reasonable contract(no more than $6mill/5yrs and no clauses) you have to move him especially with an uncertain future ahead with an expiring CBA unless you want to let Leino and Zherdev(or UFA X) walk as wingers who can produce at that position just to make sure Carter is locked up long term. It is called asset management.

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