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Old
05-18-2005, 01:05 PM
  #1
rabi
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Crosby is ours ;)

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Edmont...44803-sun.html

Personally, I like the idea, but would rather up the age so that he would get drafted next year....

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05-18-2005, 01:13 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabi
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Winnip...44699-sun.html

Personally, I like the idea, but would rather up the age so that he would get drafted next year....
I think a full-scale is the only option the NHL will seriously consider in the end. Sure, the Washingtons and Pittsburgs might whine for using last season's standings, but no one can possibly think that is fair. They had their draft picks for their bad years and made out quite good, mind you.

Yes, there is a chance that Detroit or Toronto might end up with Crosby. Is that fair? I say yes. Hell, having Crosby in Detroit or New York would probably be great for the game in the U.S. Much like what Gretzky did for expanding the game when he went to L.A., which may have been a mixed blessing because of over-enthusiastic expansion, but was otherwise great for the sport. Besides, that won't happen this time.

Then there is the chance the middle of the road teams like Buffalo can get their hands on him. I'm sure none of us would complain.


The bottom-feeders still have shot, so they have no room to complain in such a scenario.

Personally, I think it should be an even chance for each team -- no weighting. They want a level playing field with this new CBA, so show off the "fair" new NHL with everyone having their equal chance. But I wouldn't complain if the system was lightly weighted.

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05-18-2005, 06:13 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon
Personally, I think it should be an even chance for each team -- no weighting. They want a level playing field with this new CBA, so show off the "fair" new NHL with everyone having their equal chance. But I wouldn't complain if the system was lightly weighted.
I can't agree, as I'm too pessimisstic to think that the playing field is going to be level under a new CBA. It's a certainty that as soon as the ink is dry, the big money teams will have a swarm of people looking for ways to take advantage of whatever system is in place to keep them from spending arse over tea-kettle. The haves will still be haves, and the have nots might have a little bit better chance, but things won't change all that much.

Meh. As long as the ping pong ball doesn't come up Toronto, I can live with it, I guess.

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05-18-2005, 07:40 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by article
If you've missed the playoffs twice, you get two balls.


Quote:
Originally Posted by article
If you have more than one ball, your remaining one or two balls would be taken out of the machine.


Yeah, I'm immature.

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Old
05-18-2005, 09:39 PM
  #5
Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpb
I can't agree, as I'm too pessimisstic to think that the playing field is going to be level under a new CBA. It's a certainty that as soon as the ink is dry, the big money teams will have a swarm of people looking for ways to take advantage of whatever system is in place to keep them from spending arse over tea-kettle. The haves will still be haves, and the have nots might have a little bit better chance, but things won't change all that much.

Meh. As long as the ping pong ball doesn't come up Toronto, I can live with it, I guess.
Note that I put "fair" in quotations. I never wanted a cap system in the first place, and I really still don't.

The big money teams deserve as much a shot at Crosby as anyone else... it is the small money teams that are the cause of this lost season anyhow, so they should be prepared to sacrifice the draft slots they may have gotten if there were a season.

I obviously do not like Toronto, but the Sabres don't deserve Crosby any more than they do.

I say it should be a completely even draw for slots. I can live with a weighted system, however. Also, I'm not sure if this was covered in the article but each round should be redrawn. The team that gets the first overall pick shouldn't get the first pick of the second round unless by odd luck through a second drawing.

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Old
05-19-2005, 05:57 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon
The big money teams deserve as much a shot at Crosby as anyone else... it is the small money teams that are the cause of this lost season anyhow, so they should be prepared to sacrifice the draft slots they may have gotten if there were a season.
But that's the point. The season was sacrificed in order to get a system that allows the little fish to be competitive with the big fish. The only way that truly happens is if there's an agreement on what constitutes revenue. Then, all 30 teams put all the money in one pot, divide it by 30, and that's your budget for hockey operations for the year. Any money a team makes outside of that the owner can keep as profits, but can't use it to pay player/coach/front office salaries & expenses.

Since that will never happen, there won't be a level playing field. The owners thought they got it last CBA, and then prompty went looking for ways to get an edge, and look where we are now. There's nothing to suggest that that won't happen again.

Ergo, the haves will remain haves and we'll still be long suffering fans of a mostly have not team. So no, saying that a team like Toronto, Coloradao, Detriot or Philly deserves the same shot at a chance to draft Crosby, Brule or similar just doesn't was for me.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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05-19-2005, 01:42 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpb
But that's the point. The season was sacrificed in order to get a system that allows the little fish to be competitive with the big fish. The only way that truly happens is if there's an agreement on what constitutes revenue. Then, all 30 teams put all the money in one pot, divide it by 30, and that's your budget for hockey operations for the year. Any money a team makes outside of that the owner can keep as profits, but can't use it to pay player/coach/front office salaries & expenses.

Since that will never happen, there won't be a level playing field. The owners thought they got it last CBA, and then prompty went looking for ways to get an edge, and look where we are now. There's nothing to suggest that that won't happen again.

Ergo, the haves will remain haves and we'll still be long suffering fans of a mostly have not team. So no, saying that a team like Toronto, Coloradao, Detriot or Philly deserves the same shot at a chance to draft Crosby, Brule or similar just doesn't was for me.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
I guess what we disagree on is what constitutes deservedness. Why does a team with a huge advantage in market and finances deserve something less than a team with less resources? To put it simply, does either team deserve Crosby? No, not really. They didn't do anything to earn the selection spot.

Does a beggar deserve a dollar more than a guy who digs ditches for a living? He just needs it more.

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Old
05-19-2005, 03:57 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon
I guess what we disagree on is what constitutes deservedness. Why does a team with a huge advantage in market and finances deserve something less than a team with less resources? To put it simply, does either team deserve Crosby? No, not really. They didn't do anything to earn the selection spot.

Does a beggar deserve a dollar more than a guy who digs ditches for a living? He just needs it more.
Does anyone consider the Rangers "small market"?

They are getting the highest chance of obtaining Crosby along with Buffalo Columbus, Atlanta, etc......

This weighted draft suggestion has nothing to do with helping out the team with the worst financial situations, its about helping the teams with the fewest number of playoff appearences in the last three years.

The salary cap is to level the financial playing field and the draft is to level the play on the field (or ice).

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05-19-2005, 06:52 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digable5
The salary cap is to level the financial playing field and the draft is to level the play on the field (or ice).
nice point

i think they should just up the age to 19 to be entirely fair, but if they are going to do a lottery then this is the fairest way. No way should every team get the same chance, thats just stupid, and i'd also hate to see the caps or pens get crosby, since they already got ovechkin/malkin last year.

for the sabres, knowing our luck, i would just be over the moon with a top 5 pick.

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Old
05-20-2005, 07:10 AM
  #10
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Ooh, a fellow Sabres fan from England.

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Old
05-20-2005, 09:04 AM
  #11
Paxon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digable5
Does anyone consider the Rangers "small market"?

They are getting the highest chance of obtaining Crosby along with Buffalo Columbus, Atlanta, etc......

This weighted draft suggestion has nothing to do with helping out the team with the worst financial situations, its about helping the teams with the fewest number of playoff appearences in the last three years.

The salary cap is to level the financial playing field and the draft is to level the play on the field (or ice).
Well, my point was that it shouldn't be weighted at all. Everything else I've been saying has just been in effort to support that; I assumed finances played into the weighting. In this case, however, it is just as ridiculous and unfair. Teams already got compensated for missing the playoffs each year that they did.

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Old
05-20-2005, 09:49 AM
  #12
Digable5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon
Well, my point was that it shouldn't be weighted at all. Everything else I've been saying has just been in effort to support that; I assumed finances played into the weighting. In this case, however, it is just as ridiculous and unfair. Teams already got compensated for missing the playoffs each year that they did.
This is true, but without playing a season this seems like an appropriate system to determine who should have a "better" chance at getting a high pick. Its not like the Detroit's and Colorado's have no chance, its just that their chances are slightly less than the Pittsburgh's of the league. Besides, the 3:1 ratio isn't much of an advantage. Now if Buffalo's numbers were 10:1 over Toronto I'd feel like it was unfair, but still happy as heck.

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05-20-2005, 10:30 AM
  #13
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I didn't think the weighted system would actually be considered until I read that article. I say, even though i'd love for the sabres to have an even better shot of attaining crosby, give every team an equal shot....1 ball per team....no one loses....but definately don't base it on the previous season...washington and pittsburgh have already benfited from sucking so bad

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Old
05-20-2005, 01:24 PM
  #14
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i have this feeling that when any league treats its small market teams poorly the league in general suffers.
so start treating buffalo like the team it has been in the past. besides we got nothing for the 99 finals.! that is how you fix the league.

this city would go insane with crosby here.

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05-20-2005, 01:36 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impressingagent
i have this feeling that when any league treats its small market teams poorly the league in general suffers.
so start treating buffalo like the team it has been in the past. besides we got nothing for the 99 finals.! that is how you fix the league.

this city would go insane with crosby here.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, though -- it is still a long shot.

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Old
05-20-2005, 01:44 PM
  #16
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it would be nice to just make the top 3!

who are your top 3 for the sabres

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Old
05-20-2005, 03:49 PM
  #17
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1.Crosby
2.Brule
3.Johnson

I would be ecstatic for any of those 3.

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Old
05-22-2005, 10:04 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, though -- it is still a long shot.
Yes, but under this plan the Sabres would be the co-favorites.

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Old
05-22-2005, 10:34 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
1.Crosby
2.Brule
3.Johnson

I would be ecstatic for any of those 3.
As unfair as I think the weighted system is, I have to admit I'd be a happy camper if we were able to get any of those cats.

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05-22-2005, 05:39 PM
  #20
BackGroundMusic
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If the Sabres, by some act of God, end up with the #1 pick, what do you do? Do you try to get as much stuff as possible in return for it, or do you take him and then restructure the team? Right now, the Sabres centers are all on the small side, plus there's the glut of forwards.

Personally, I would take Crosby and trade kotalik, pyatt, and release Boulton to a permanent career in the ECHL.

What do you guys think?

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Old
05-22-2005, 05:48 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan
If the Sabres, by some act of God, end up with the #1 pick, what do you do? Do you try to get as much stuff as possible in return for it, or do you take him and then restructure the team? Right now, the Sabres centers are all on the small side, plus there's the glut of forwards.
If (and it's a big if) the Sabres get the #1 overall, you have to take Crosby unless someone blows your doors way off.

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Old
05-22-2005, 05:58 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpb
If (and it's a big if) the Sabres get the #1 overall, you have to take Crosby unless someone blows your doors way off.
I agree... it'd have to be a lot. You can keep Crosby and move some forwards to strengthen the D... plus there will be a fair amount of free agents (who may like the idea of playing alongside the "next big thing"). Unless you get the kind of return the Colorado franchise got for Lindros, you just don't do it.

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Old
05-22-2005, 06:07 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon
Unless you get the kind of return the Colorado franchise got for Lindros, you just don't do it.
I completely agree with the d-men thing, but you would have to think that whoever gets the top pick will get something at least as good as the Forsberg+package.
Any favorite d-men [UFAs or otherwise] you think we could actually get in B-lo? Having Crosby would certainly be a draw...

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Old
05-22-2005, 11:11 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BikeGiftingMan
I completely agree with the d-men thing, but you would have to think that whoever gets the top pick will get something at least as good as the Forsberg+package.
Any favorite d-men [UFAs or otherwise] you think we could actually get in B-lo? Having Crosby would certainly be a draw...
I quite honestly don't remember who really is still a UFA but you can add a bunch of guys whose contracts expired after this "season". So there will be a lot. Then you may assume that at least a few guys will get cut to make cap room, depending on whether or not there is any grandfathering. Either way, teams may look to the future and decide to cut some big salaries. How many free agents will have Buffalo high on their list? Probably not many. However, with such a shake-up there are bound to be a few guys who would come here if the price is right. Crosby would be an obviously huge incentive, but either way Buffalo is a team on the rise. Even without free agents, a couple good draft picks and/or a couple forward for defensemen trades could have the D looking pretty good pretty fast. A lot of that rests on how our young guys progressed and will continue to progress through camp.

Kalinin is a sure thing to be a horse next season as far as I'm concerned and Tallinder can be a huge part of this defense if he has it together. McKee will be McKee, which basically means you don't know which McKee you're gonna get. When he's on his game his edge makes this defense so much better. Jillson is the wildcard. He didn't have a great AHL season and his decision making is very questionable. But he has the frame and tools to be a late-bloomer.

Brown and Fitzpatrick can put in time in the bottom pairing. I can see Janik getting some time with the big club. Campbell could be a decent 6th man, especially if he got some confidence from his very, very fine season over in Finland. These four give some satisfactory options for the final pairing.

What the team really needs is a #1 or #2 defenseman to play with Kalinin and a second-pairing guy would definitely help in terms of depth. Hell, for all we know Zhitnik could come back, though given things that were reported during last offseason that doesn't seem too likely.

Our defense is only going to be as good as our goaltending and vice versa. If we can improve our defense at all and get some stable goaltending for once, this team is gunning for the playoffs all season.

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Old
05-23-2005, 01:17 AM
  #25
BackGroundMusic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Paxon
Tallinder can be a huge part of this defense if he has it together.
Very tactfully worded

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