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Bouillon & Lombardi (concussions), O'Reilly (leg), & Goc (shoulder) all out

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Old
11-10-2010, 02:25 PM
  #76
Evgeny Oliker
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With Lombardi and Erat still out, any chance Klasen gets another call up?

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11-10-2010, 02:40 PM
  #77
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2forsbergaura1 View Post
With Lombardi and Erat still out, any chance Klasen gets another call up?
No, Erat is close to returning. There simply isn't room right now...

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11-10-2010, 03:52 PM
  #78
Evgeny Oliker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post
No, Erat is close to returning. There simply isn't room right now...
I see. How about next season? i know Sullivan's contract will be up, same for Kostitsyn and a few others. So would Klasen have a better shot then?

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11-10-2010, 04:43 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Well, the players have been different over the years and it's been a problem for a while now. Do we blame the GM since he's giving Trotz the roster?
It has to enter the equation. In 05-06, we were top 10 in PP. Is it any coincidence that Timonen, Zidlicky, Kariya, were leading the way? Even with that group, that level of talent pales in comparison to the high-end offensive talent on other teams. Kariya was washed up when he came to us, Trotz turned him decent, now he's back to washed up. Sullivan on the LW hardly compares to Alex Ovechkin. The big key back then was we had a true PP QB in Kimmo, and "decent enough" talent up front. Zidlicky was also talented on the PP.

Now, we have no PP QB, no sniper, and very little hope. We have a big shot from the point (Weber-- who's been off), a good net player in Hornq, an average (at best) puck mover / QB in Suter, a washed up scoring threat who wasn't a big scoring threat to begin with (Sullivan), and a guy making the transition from the AHL (O'Rielly). And then a bunch of guys who don't belong anywhere close to a 1st PP unit, with Wilson maybe being the exception eventually.

It's a talent issue more than coaching issue.

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11-10-2010, 05:37 PM
  #80
token grinder
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I think you are offbase. look at teams #2 and #4 in pp percentage-Minnesota and Atlanta. What do they have we don't?

Minnesota runs out koivu, cullen, havlat, brunette, miettinen, and latendresse as forwards and zidlicky, burns, cam barker, and schultz.

Atlanta runs Antropov, Peverly, Little, Stewart, Ladd, Bergfors s forwards and byfuglien, enstrom, oduya and bogosian as d-men.

are you to tell me it is a talent issue when we run a much more talented lineup out there. I'm telling you, it is between the ears for the people running the halfwall-sullivan, erat, wilson, dumont.

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11-10-2010, 05:55 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
I think you are offbase. look at teams #2 and #4 in pp percentage-Minnesota and Atlanta. What do they have we don't?

Minnesota runs out koivu, cullen, havlat, brunette, miettinen, and latendresse as forwards and zidlicky, burns, cam barker, and schultz.

Atlanta runs Antropov, Peverly, Little, Stewart, Ladd, Bergfors s forwards and byfuglien, enstrom, oduya and bogosian as d-men.

are you to tell me it is a talent issue when we run a much more talented lineup out there. I'm telling you, it is between the ears for the people running the halfwall-sullivan, erat, wilson, dumont.
First off, it's way early to put any stock into PP rankings. 1 or 2 goals can change your ranking considerably.

But if you are going to compare us to Minn, yes they have better tools. Koivu is a true playmaker, and better than anyone we have, as is Havlat. Cullen is playing out of his mind right now on the PP, but don't expect that to keep up. And I don't expect them to end the year at #2 either.

Look at the top 10 PP rankings of last year, and it's loaded with real TALENT. The only half argument people can make is Montreal. Yes, they had chemistry going as does any good PP, but they also had a true sniper (Camerelli), and several other players who shine on the PP (Gionta, Gomez, Markov, Plekanec, MAB, etc).

It's no coincidence that when we had more talent on our team, our PP was better.

The Powerplay is about scoring goals and making plays-- real insight I know. We have one guy on our team who's scored over 30 goals, and he's over-the-hill. And we don't have a true playmaker to run the PP. We might see marginal improvement with another coach, but imo, it's more a talent issue than a coaching one.


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Old
11-10-2010, 06:34 PM
  #82
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Kariya was hardly washed up when he came to Nashville after the lock out. Except the the 2001-2002 season and the 2003-2004 season he was scoring at or above a PPG clip. I also don't agree that Suter is "average at best" when it comes to puck movement. Average PP QB? Yes, but is that due to a lack of finishing ability from our forwards?

I think the reality lies somewhere in both of your opinions, though. We have players with talent, but seem to lack the patience a PP often requires (Sullivan, Erat, Weber). We also have patient players who are a bit too patient so they overlook options while looking for the perfect pass/shot. Then we have guys like Wilson, SK, Hornqvist to some extent, and Franson who are so young that it's hard to tell if they will excel at both decision-making and offensive talent.

I also think that if it's a talent issue it has to also be a coaching issue to an extent. Exceptionally talented offensive players won't need much coaching for a power play, if any at all. We don't have those players, so Trotz has to find a way to make it work with what we do have.

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Old
11-10-2010, 07:07 PM
  #83
dulzhok
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Kariya was hardly washed up when he came to Nashville after the lock out. Except the the 2001-2002 season and the 2003-2004 season he was scoring at or above a PPG clip. I also don't agree that Suter is "average at best" when it comes to puck movement. Average PP QB? Yes, but is that due to a lack of finishing ability from our forwards?
Kariya had the worst season of his career in '04, scoring 11g in 51 games on a stacked Colorado team. Washed up might not have been the right word, but he was "not as good as he once was." He then played pretty well under Trtoz, and has been on a downward spiral since.

Point being, yes, we ranked 10th in PP in '06, and we atleast had some legit talent.

We're missing a PP QB. Timonen was that, mixed with a little Zidlicky. I think Suter is an average at best PP QB-- keep in mind he's being compared to the top 30 in the world. Sure, if we had some finishers it would help his assist total, but he's not close to a Mike Green, or Kimmo Timonen, for that matter, when it comes to the PP.

Equally missing is a sniper. Story of our franchise. Steve Sullivan filled in as a 2nd tier guy when he was in his prime, but he's past that now. He's now that guy that once scored 34 goals who we are trying to rely on.

We have a couple of good PP pieces-- Weber's Point Blast, and Horny's net presence, but lack some big ones-- PP QB & Sniper.

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11-11-2010, 09:23 AM
  #84
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Suter in the Olympics looked like one of the best pp quarterbacks in the game.

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11-11-2010, 10:11 AM
  #85
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I think we all agree in order for us to be viable, we need to be healthy with Lombardi, Suter and Erat to do anything productive. Additionally, I feel like we could use a sniper and some NHL ready veteran depth with expiring contracts next year, as we are on a budget.

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Old
11-11-2010, 10:27 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Suter in the Olympics looked like one of the best pp quarterbacks in the game.
Rafalski was Team USA's go-to guy on the point.

Suter really isn't that great of a PPQB. He is excellent at carrying the puck into the zone, but he lacks creativity once set up. Weber isn't any better though. Suter's patented fake-shot-pass-to-Weber works every now and then, but I haven't seen him consistently do anything else.

Suter's game is much more suited for even strength play.

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11-11-2010, 11:19 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Rafalski was Team USA's go-to guy on the point.

Suter really isn't that great of a PPQB. He is excellent at carrying the puck into the zone, but he lacks creativity once set up. Weber isn't any better though. Suter's patented fake-shot-pass-to-Weber works every now and then, but I haven't seen him consistently do anything else.

Suter's game is much more suited for even strength play.
jesus, did you watch the olympics? Suter won Rafalsi the best defenseman award by threading the needle to him. Granted, Rafalski had to put the puck in the net, but it was a chicken and egg thing I guess. Suter is not our problem on the pp. A ppqb is there to make passes and get guys in the right spots. I'm telling you, our problem is between the ears on the half boards.

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11-11-2010, 02:45 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Suter in the Olympics looked like one of the best pp quarterbacks in the game.
I'd have to go back and watch Rafalski's goals to see the impact Suter had on them. Regadless, I don't believe in looking at sample sizes of 5 games.

Over the time period Suter has played with us, he's been "average" on the PP, imo. I agree with PA that he's excellent at transitioning the puck up ice, and he's a "pretty good" puck mover on the PP.

However, he lacks high end offensive skills and creativity that the true PP QBs have. He's a level below guys like Mike Green, Doughty, Boyle, Kaberle, Markov, Lidstrom, etc.

He's not the problem, but he's not the solution either.

His biggest strength is at ES, where he's close to top 5 all-around.

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11-11-2010, 02:59 PM
  #89
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I think as s straight up playmaker, Suter is one the tops in the game, better than Kimmo for sure...

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11-11-2010, 04:24 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
jesus, did you watch the olympics? Suter won Rafalsi the best defenseman award by threading the needle to him. Granted, Rafalski had to put the puck in the net, but it was a chicken and egg thing I guess. Suter is not our problem on the pp. A ppqb is there to make passes and get guys in the right spots. I'm telling you, our problem is between the ears on the half boards.
All I'm saying is Rafalski was the PPQB for USA. In all other situations, Suter dominated. But the PP was not why he was held in high regard that tourny. I didn't know this was such a sensitive subject.

And I never said Suter was the or a problem on our PP. He gets the job done, but is nothing special.

I don't think we can pinpoint our PP woes on one player/position. There are several things wrong with the PP, with the main problem being puck and player movement. We just seem so stagnant.

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11-11-2010, 04:57 PM
  #91
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Rafalski was the triggerman on the powerplay, Suter was the ppqb.

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11-11-2010, 05:29 PM
  #92
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I think Grebeshkov would have been a valueable PP QB for this team, without hurting the team too much on D. I wasn't too excited about the idea of retaining his services during the off season but I am starting to think that he might have brought some much needed punch to the PP.

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11-11-2010, 05:49 PM
  #93
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I think Grebeshkov would have been a valueable PP QB for this team, without hurting the team too much on D. I wasn't too excited about the idea of retaining his services during the off season but I am starting to think that he might have brought some much needed punch to the PP.
I think he would have worked better on the top line than Boullion for sure....

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11-11-2010, 06:48 PM
  #94
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I think Grebeshkov would have been a valueable PP QB for this team, without hurting the team too much on D. I wasn't too excited about the idea of retaining his services during the off season but I am starting to think that he might have brought some much needed punch to the PP.
For the money Grebs wanted, we got Cube, SOB, and half of Co*y. Me- I'd have liked Grebs and played Sulzer and one of the kids as the 3rd pair, but I can't argue that's better than what we have.

Suter is fine as the ppqb - he's at least the equal of Kimmo and he qb'd our most successful pp.

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11-11-2010, 09:37 PM
  #95
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I think as s straight up playmaker, Suter is one the tops in the game, better than Kimmo for sure...
On the PP?

I'd think anyone of [Green, Doughty, Boyle, Kaberle, Markov, Lidstrom] would be an upgrade over Suter on the PP. There are others I'd probably take as well, when it comes to the PP. He makes some nice plays, but I don't think he has elite vision (esp in the offense zone), top-end creativity, or a great shot.

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11-11-2010, 09:45 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
On the PP?

I'd think anyone of [Green, Doughty, Boyle, Kaberle, Markov, Lidstrom] would be an upgrade over Suter on the PP. There are others I'd probably take as well, when it comes to the PP. He makes some nice plays, but I don't think he has elite vision (esp in the offense zone), top-end creativity, or a great shot.
totally disagree with you there. He has great hands and great vision. Not that I think he's the best but I think he's one of the tops. Problem is, who is he going to set up other than Weber?

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11-11-2010, 09:46 PM
  #97
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Wasn't as upbeat as earlier this year, but a much more workmanlike atmosphere with an occasional joke and smile mixed in. Trotz was quick to stop and correct things that went wrong.

By "additional work" I assume you mean a bag skate. No, that was pretty much off the table when they had yesterday off. Lots of work on the basics, trying to establish flow in transition, correcting d-zone breakdowns on entry, etc.

As for the PP, Trotz ran the guys through again the 3 different looks (1-3-1, overload, umbrella) and all four options off of each look. With the ever changing lineup due to injuries, it's been hard to build any chemistry with the units. It takes time and repitition to master, but I don't think you can blame Trotz for the failure of the PP. He's certainly giving them plenty of instruction and multiple options to work within. Unfortunately, he can't go out there and do it himself...
MAYBE HE NEEDS TO TRY AND DO IT HIMSELF....CAN'T LOOK ANY MORE FOOLISH THAN THAT JOKE OF A 5 ON 3 I JUST WATCHED AGAINST THE BLUES.

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Old
11-11-2010, 10:00 PM
  #98
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totally disagree with you there. He has great hands and great vision. Not that I think he's the best but I think he's one of the tops. Problem is, who is he going to set up other than Weber?
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I think he has good hands and good vision, but not great hands and great vision like the previously mentioned power-play powerhouses, who all have varying degrees of talent to work alongside.

Playmakers make their own plays (consistently). He's not inept in that department, but he's not elite, IMO.

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11-11-2010, 10:09 PM
  #99
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Also, relating to Suter's shot, 2 goals on the PP last year is unacceptable, IMO.

You have the bomb of the shot from Weber that teams are playing against consistently. This opens up serious shooting lanes for Suter (and others). If he he had a "great" shot, he'd have way more than 2 goals.

It's one reason why Ovechkin and Green are PP beasts. Both have great shots, and teams can't solely commit to one guy.

With us, they commit to Weber, and others (including Suter) can't put home the biscuit with the extra space.

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11-12-2010, 01:15 PM
  #100
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according to our own Seth Lake, Suter and Erat are both back in full practice!

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