HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

O'Byrne/Bournival trade revisited

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-11-2010, 12:02 PM
  #226
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
k

We got a prospect, but we just lost our toughest dman.

Potential bruising dman in our system ?

Pateryn, Greg (?)
Tinordi, Jarred

Potential two way centres in our system

Leblanc, Louis
Maxwell, Ben
Engqivst, Andreas
Bournival, Micheal
Nattinen, Joonas
Eller, Lars
White, Ryan
Dumont, Gabriel (?)

? = You can say no that's not really them. If you want to say he'll play wing, we can then add all the wingers we have too.

Hopefully, next time Gauthier makes a deal he deals for a weak area and not add another player to an ever growing list.

However, Maxwell will probably be dealt.
I agree that losing OB could hurt down the road, but JM had no faith in him so it makes it hard to keep his timing and confidence in the press box.

I have no problem adding another forward to the stable, I love Bournival's intangibles much like LeBlanc, the kid is a gamer and a winner. Even if he never develops into a top 6 guy, he can still be a quality 3rd line guy that plays an in your face game, plays physical, kills penalities(younger Halpern). A team never has too many of those type of players.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:03 PM
  #227
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 32,911
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenIceHit View Post
I would have like to include O'byrne in a package deal for a top 6 forward. Other than that, it's an average trade.

I would not be surprised to see a Bill Guerin pop up in Montreal...
You would have had to put together a hell of a package cause O'Byrne ain't worth much and to get a top 6 forward back it's not that easy

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:03 PM
  #228
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 2,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeConstantin74 View Post
Not going to happen. Shawinigan wants to got for it next year and a 19 yo Bournival will be their best player.
I think it was a joke

No Team Needed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:04 PM
  #229
CareyClutch
Doing the job
 
CareyClutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: North Korea
Posts: 4,942
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CareyClutch
Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Remember when drafting Price was stupid because we already had a ridiculous amount of goalie depth?

Some of you guys are real winners, honestly.
Ohhh please! stop making sense on this board.

CareyClutch is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:04 PM
  #230
alexstream
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,396
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Assuming we don't call anyone up; approximately $800K.

I like the trade. O'Byrne wasn't going to get the playing time to develop in Montreal, considering he was (at best) #8 on the depth chart. Montreal management may hold Weber in a higher light than O'Byrne as well (and rightfully so).

It sucks to lose O'Byrne because the player we thought he could become made a lot of us drool. He was big, strong, could be physical, and had good wheels. It's too bad he really didn't develop here. He'll be decent for Colorado. Best luck to him.

I like that we got a solid two-way player (on pace for 82 points in the Q over 58 games), who may even make the WJC team. He compares quite nicely to Danny Kristo, with slightly better size.
If Foote mentors him well, he could become kickass... that's the only thing I'm seeing... otherwise, his decision making is poor, sub-NHL.

alexstream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:04 PM
  #231
MTL-rules
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,209
vCash: 500
We actually got something decent in return of O'Byrne... only that can be considered a good trade...

"O'Byrne has potential"... how about we look at his production ?

...in a way, I think his value was better in the Press box than on the ice... lol...

MTL-rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:05 PM
  #232
Ceux de Montreal
Horrible proposal!!!
 
Ceux de Montreal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: omg montréal lolzzz
Country: Martinique
Posts: 5,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Where did Montreal get with that? Not very far.



People here love to go after Hamrlik and Spacek, but they are certainly doing the job in front of Price along with the other four. Montreal has the fifth best goals against (tied) in the league. Second best (tied) in the East. Some veterans take some time to wake up their game. Not only that, but have you seen Markov in the last few games? He's got a serious edge to his game and makes up for any checks O'Byrne was forgetting to make.

I love aggressive D-men myself but I'll take IQ over strength nine times out of ten. Spacek is one of the best one on one D-men in the league. I think he's broken up more breakaways than anyone else in the league. Hamrlik is old but he still shows flashes of his good game and he'll show it more as the season progresses. I'm hoping for an affordable Jovanoski in the summer.

Hard to argue the Habs went much further with their current system, though, just one more playoff round. But I'll take it as a good argument anyway.

Like I said in my previous post, nothing against Hamrlik and Spacek, they are still fine player but I'm having a hard time picturing them as our second-unit for the whole year. They can be effective, but in my opinion, not enough for a contender team like the Canadiens aspire to be. Keeping one of them seem better.

If only Beauchemin wasnt left handed as well

Ceux de Montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:05 PM
  #233
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 2,884
vCash: 500
Bob McKenzie's thoughts:

Quote:
O'Byrne wasn't going to play in MTL. Picard had gone by him on the depth chart. He will get plenty of opportunity in COL, where the Avs are decimated with injuries on teh blueline. This is O'Byrne's big chance. He's obviously a huge guy and has some physical presence though he's not a real punishing type player but if he were to emulate someone, I would say look at the kind of player Hal Gill has become. O'Byrne will either get it in COL and establish himself or he'll be on the slippery slope. As for Bournival, the scouts I talk to like him as a solid prospect, smart, hard-working, can play all three forward positions. He's going to get a look for Canada's world junior team this year.

No Team Needed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:06 PM
  #234
Quarantesix
#Galchenyuk
 
Quarantesix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montréal
Posts: 4,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And you clearly want to read what you want, didn't expect less from you. I did mention that I didn't like the way O'Byrne was develop. You did miss that part did you? Now, since it's CLEAR they had no confidence in him, they trade him. Then, it's about the return. Again, how much do you know Bournival? Like I added to my post, how about the fact that the majority loved the D'Agostini for Palushaj trade? Where is the franco there? Appease the french media? Seriously? After getting rid of everybody and almost starting with 1 franco in the starting lineup? You seriously think that it will appease the media to get a prospect we will not see in the next 3 years at best? The same medias that keeps mentioning how the Habs had no respect for the french players while at the same time, during rookie camps, we had approx. 20 francos on about 55 players at camp? Same medias who, just liked Richard Labbé on his Twitter account just said he has NO CLUE who Bournival was? Pretty sure you are overestimating our french medias.....

Having said all of that, you TOTALLY have a right to hate the trade. Thing is....we haven't read why you did except the fact that a frenchie was coming back in the trade. Sorry, for me, that's not a very good reason to hate it....Feel free to add why you do ASIDE from the language he speaks. I mean, if you are amongst the ones who doesn't care what language he speaks, only matters how good they are, you shouldn't care that he speaks french right?
Don't want to be the guy who defend all Habs move but that what happen when you have a team with no depth. You bring young player to quickly in the organisation.

When you need to fill spots with young players there a good chance you will hurt their development. Now I think the Habs have better depth they can leave guys in the AHL longer and see how they develop. The better exemple is Subban,he spend one year in the AHL and now he's NHL ready and I don't see him fail.

I like the idea of having alot of good young players fighting for spots. We have a couple of players in the AHL who can have a chance to play in the NHL if they were in other teams. Desharnais,Maxwell,Carle,Pacioretty and White.

I think is good to keep them in the AHL until they can really help the Habs. I think the Habs have the Red Wings as a blueprint and I feel good about that

Quarantesix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:07 PM
  #235
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 2,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
If only Beauchemin wasnt left handed as well
The problem with Beauchemin is that Burke is not going to trade him to us. You can kind of scratch that idea. Not only, but he makes just as many errors as Hamrlik does. It would be a lateral move at best.

No Team Needed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:07 PM
  #236
Team_Spirit
Tinordi-Subban
 
Team_Spirit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 20,352
vCash: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhldraftvideo View Post
im happy, really wanted Bournival in last year draft. great two-way forward, top notch work ethic on and off the ice (someone will post that picture of him training lol), likely will be at team canada december camp (hockey canada head scout is a big fan of him). he's captain of his shawinigan team

OByrne had no future with the habs
Great move!!

Surprised we got something for Ryan O'Byrne...

http://www.lhebdodustmaurice.com/Spo...el-Bournival/1

Bournival was 6th at the combine for the bench press and 1st for pumps.

Team_Spirit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:09 PM
  #237
The Gal Pals
Breaking Hab
 
The Gal Pals's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,822
vCash: 1549
I just love Bournival! I was so pissed when we didn't draft him this yr. This is a huge steal in my opinion. I remember this summer during the NHL Combine he was the fittest player and dominated in most of the the categories. The TSN article at the time said they were very impressed by him. He also happens to be a very smart kid in school. Straight A student type of guy so he definitely has his head screwed on right.

The Gal Pals is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:09 PM
  #238
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,935
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by #11 Saku Koivu View Post
Only playing devil's advocate, because I agree with the premise of your argument, but....

this team would be better with Kopitar + Halak than Eller + Price. Sooo this example isn't the best comparison.
What does Kopitar have to do with anything? We didn't draft Kopitar; we did draft Price. I could go through every draft from the past 10 years and put together and all-star team of "we would've been better with him", what's the point?

hototogisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:10 PM
  #239
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
The problem with Beauchemin is that Burke is not going to trade him to us. You can kind of scratch that idea. Not only, but he makes just as many errors as Hamrlik does. It would be a lateral move at best.
I wouldn't touch Beauchemin at the money he is making. He makes a lot more erros than Hamrlik, that's why Toronto's defense is so overrated.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:12 PM
  #240
Mike8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 11,096
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarantesix View Post
Don't want to be the guy who defend all Habs move but that what happen when you have a team with no depth. You bring young player to quickly in the organisation.

When you need to fill spots with young players there a good chance you will hurt their development.
This is a tenuous argument to make given that: 1) the year O'Byrne played half the season in the NHL, the team won the East, and had Markov, Streit, Komisarek, Hamrlik, Brisebois, Dandenault, Bouillon, and Gorges in addition to O'Byrne (8 defensemen ahead of O'Byrne potentially); and, 2) O'Byrne was 23 years old. That hardly constitutes rushing a player.

Mike8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:12 PM
  #241
Spy
resU deretsigeR
 
Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,030
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunkinDrublic View Post
WS i don't care what language he speaks but i do care about those like certain posters here and RDS and CKAC and all the other french media who babble all the time about us getting more Quebec born players.
And why would you care? Just don't listen to them if they bother you so much. Jeez.

Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:12 PM
  #242
hototogisu
Global Moderator
Poked the bear!!!!!
 
hototogisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,935
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Bob McKenzie's thoughts:
Suggesting O'Byrne model himself after Gill isn't a bad idea. People want O'Byrne to be this big, nasty, punishing defenseman but it's just not in his nature. Much like Gill, he has the size for it, but not the mindset.

hototogisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:14 PM
  #243
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 30,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
Hard to argue the Habs went much further with their current system, though, just one more playoff round. But I'll take it as a good argument anyway.

Like I said in my previous post, nothing against Hamrlik and Spacek, they are still fine player but I'm having a hard time picturing them as our second-unit for the whole year. They can be effective, but in my opinion, not enough for a contender team like the Canadiens aspire to be. Keeping one of them seem better.

If only Beauchemin wasnt left handed as well
Hamrlik is a definite top 4 guy, top 2-3 on most teams. He's been a pilar of strength this year especially considering he missed preseason and the first 3 games. Spacek though other than last game has played like a #5-6-7 guy

Right now our d-men are...

1-Markov(working his way back to all-star level)
2-Hamrlik(very smart and steady)
3-Gorges
4-Subban
5-Spacek/Gill
7-Picard

Ideally in order to try and win a cup we'd add a top 4 rental guy at the deadline and move out Spacek or Gill. Hopefully Spacek can keep up his last game performance.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:15 PM
  #244
La Grosse Tendresse
Registered User
 
La Grosse Tendresse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Rouyn-Noranda
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,462
vCash: 500
Why are people upset about losing a #7 defenseman who's been in the league for 3 seasons now? He hasn't shown anything to make him valuable: He isn't good positionaly, he doesn't have a mean streak, he doesn't have any offensive capability, he's inconsistent and is prone to bad penalties/giveaways... And please, before you talk about potential, how many 26 year old players with 3 years under their belt as a 7th defenseman turn out to have long careers in the league? Not much.

La Grosse Tendresse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:18 PM
  #245
No Team Needed
Registered User
 
No Team Needed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: essex
Posts: 2,884
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I wouldn't touch Beauchemin at the money he is making. He makes a lot more erros than Hamrlik, that's why Toronto's defense is so overrated.
It's overrated, that's for sure. Komisarek was overrated in Montreal let alone Toronto without a Markov to clean up his mistakes. Beauchemin logs big minutes with little to show for it. Phaneuf is not the same D-man he was in the first two seasons of his career. Kaberle has been good for them and I'd love him as a trade deadline acquisition but it'll never happen. Schenn has been looking good but he's still quite young in his development. Gunnarsson is hilariously overrated by Leaf fans. Lebda is our Picard.

No Team Needed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:21 PM
  #246
Quarantesix
#Galchenyuk
 
Quarantesix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montréal
Posts: 4,502
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
This is a tenuous argument to make given that: 1) the year O'Byrne played half the season in the NHL, the team won the East, and had Markov, Streit, Komisarek, Hamrlik, Brisebois, Dandenault, Bouillon, and Gorges in addition to O'Byrne (8 defensemen ahead of O'Byrne potentially); and, 2) O'Byrne was 23 years old. That hardly constitutes rushing a player.
That's a good point but the year after we lost Streit and Dandenault was a borderline NHL'er. So he was 6 on a team with no depth at D. He struggled a lot that year and the Habs barely made the playoff. Give us better depth at D that year and he devellop in a better player IMO.

Quarantesix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:21 PM
  #247
PM23
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 26
vCash: 500
With limited cap space, teams can only invest in two or three future defensemen. For example, there is no doubt in my mind that Markov, Gorges and Subban are going to be with Montreal for a long time. Having said that, they're going to take up a big chunk of cap space. So in the long run (2 to 5 years), the other three defensemen are pretty much always going to be guys that are cheap and get the job done (guys like Picard, Bouillon, etc.)

I guess O'Byrne could have maybe filled one of those spots, but there's guys like Weber and Tinordi knocking at the door. Circumstances just didn't fit for O'Byrne. Colorado will probably be a better fit, kind of a rebuilding team.

PM23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:22 PM
  #248
sampollock
Registered User
 
sampollock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: in my home
Posts: 6,983
vCash: 500
getting up beat prospects are good,

can't say a great move, but there is hope

ob will always be a 6th or 7h d man

sampollock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:22 PM
  #249
CanadienErrant*
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Country: Cook Islands
Posts: 4,956
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Mike Smith from Minnesota, I've heard good things about him.
He is supposed to be as good as Fischer ! and way better than Claude Giroux....

CanadienErrant* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 12:23 PM
  #250
RE-HABS
Registered User
 
RE-HABS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,885
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexstream View Post
If Foote mentors him well, he could become kickass... that's the only thing I'm seeing... otherwise, his decision making is poor, sub-NHL.
He had some good dmen to learn from in Montreal too. OB is a good 6-7 dman, and he wasn't going to be that in Montreal. If he turns out to be a top 4 it will be a surprise and bonus to the Avs.

In regards of the Habs, they get another good young forward that plays a good two way game and looks to be a decent prospect.

Can anyone here really say they thought we would get that much for OB?

RE-HABS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.