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O'Byrne/Bournival trade revisited

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Old
11-11-2010, 01:23 PM
  #301
x-bob
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Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
Some people are mourning the loss of O'Byrne, based on what he might become if everything pans out for him. There's a reason he's no longer a Hab. That reason is Alexandre Picard:

- He's close to a year younger than O'B.
- He's more tested at the NHL level.
- He has scored more goals at the NHL level than O'B has points.
- He comes at 2/3's of O'B's cap hit this year.
- He's on a 2-way deal, so he's a lot easier to move out of the way if a guy like Weber plays so well he demands an NHL shot.
- His defensive play has been better than O'B's this season (which was supposed to be why O'B had the inside track for a spot on this team).

O'Byrne had first crack at the 7th d-man position, but ultimately lost that role to Picard. If a guy like O'B can't beat out a guy like Picard for a job on this team, it's time for a change of scenery.

I like O'B and hope that he proves to be a capable d-man at the NHL level. However, as far as asset management goes, getting a decent prospect is an excellent return for him at this stage in his development.
I agree with what you have to say. Even though Picard is probably not a top 6 defensemen, it is clear that he is better then O'Byrne. The most important thing that this shows me is that a player like O'Byrne can be easily replaced by a common free agent acquisition.

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11-11-2010, 01:26 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
No way in heck that Picard is better defensively than OB. He's a better puck mover no doubt, which is why JM likes him better. OB is better one on one, as a shot blocker and 100x better in the physical game.

The only downside to this trade is we'll end up overpaying for the type of player OB will end up being in Colorado. To me it's a lot like the Latendresse trade, though we got a much younger player back(unlike Pouliot).

The reason I don't hate the trade is that unless JM is getting fired sometime this year or in the off season, OB was only going to play sporadically and maybe end up losing value, us losing him on waivers.
OB has had a terrible time this year...and it really started last year.....Mistake after mistake defensively.....I think he will be a decent D but I think his time had run out in Montreal.....

On the flip side, Picard has integrated well and is a good serviceable D for Montreal. He has been more stable in his own end that OB has been.....since we have a surplus of serviceable Ds right now, why not get a good prospect?

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11-11-2010, 01:26 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Right, better ship Markov and Subban and Pleks and Cammy out of town ASAP.
NO, but they need support. We didn't get Koivu any support all those years and look at his career numbers. Pathetic compared to what they could have been. And no Cups, need I mention.

I wouldn't group Subban in with those other guys. He's 210 and packed with muscle.

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11-11-2010, 01:29 PM
  #304
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Yes I think the Habs are clearing up some space. I know Ryan is a big guy and an OK d-man but the Habs do have depth in D-right now and there are a lot of just OK D-men to be had if need be.

So overall, it's an OK trade.

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11-11-2010, 01:29 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
I wouldn't group Subban in with those other guys. He's 210 and packed with muscle.
Have you seen the pic of Bournival? He's packed with muscle too, that was part of my point.

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11-11-2010, 01:31 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Sargent Pepper View Post
OB has had a terrible time this year...and it really started last year.....Mistake after mistake defensively.....I think he will be a decent D but I think his time had run out in Montreal.....

On the flip side, Picard has integrated well and is a good serviceable D for Montreal. He has been more stable in his own end that OB has been.....since we have a surplus of serviceable Ds right now, why not get a good prospect?
I don`t think OB made as many defensive miscues in those 3 games than Picard did, him and Subban were horrid at times, but Price stood on his head to bail them out so they came out of it with a nice +- and people took taht to mean Picard was good defensively.

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11-11-2010, 01:32 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
I still can't believe people want MAB back?

What's the point of having a guy who gets you one goal at one end of the ice and is responsible for 3 goals at YOUR end of the ice?

If he was sooo great, why aren't 29 other teams lining up to sign him for the PP?

two words ---> defensive liability
I would agree with you if your argument was true but I think that you are exaggerating a bit. Sure MAB is absolutely awful defensively but his goals for/goals against ratio is nowhere near as bad as you are making it out.

Last year he was a -7. Which means that 7 more goals were scored against while he was on the ice at even strength. Consider the fact that he had 7 PP goals, as well as 15 PP assists. That would mean that 15 more goals were scored while he was on the ice.

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11-11-2010, 01:40 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by ScottyG 91 View Post
Just got the tweet from Bob McKenzie:
Which makes this even worst they should have been able to get more imo. Some bad asset management. I think O'Byrne could have been a good one with the right mentoring.

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11-11-2010, 01:41 PM
  #309
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Nice trade. OB was no longer in the coach/gm plans, everybody knew that around the league, and Gauthier still managed to get a 2010 3rd rounder, while clearing 0.9k from the cap.
I always liked OB, wish him well in Denver.

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11-11-2010, 01:41 PM
  #310
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Bournival is ripped

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11-11-2010, 01:42 PM
  #311
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We got a French speaker! We win the trade!

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11-11-2010, 01:49 PM
  #312
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I'm coming around to the idea of MAB and I'll tell you why. We're 3rd in the league while Spacek wasn't producing and was arguably worse than MAB defensively for like 90% of the games he played.

MAB can actually contribute offensively. Still though it's an aspect of his game that makes me cringe.

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11-11-2010, 01:50 PM
  #313
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That's really funny 'cause I was listenning to Ron Fournier last night and he had Stéphane Leroux on.. he was actually repping Michael Bournival's play.. I guess Gauthier was listenning too.

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11-11-2010, 01:51 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
This is pretty much D'Agostini trade #2.
Exactly. Bournival's not a clone of Palushaj or anything, but both are guys who will thrive at lower levels, but nobody really knows what kind of NHL careers, if any, they'll have. Not first liners, not fourth liners and definitely not guaranteed. But both are exactly the kind of guys I love to root for. I notice both seem to have been very popular prospects with their old club's fan bases.

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11-11-2010, 01:51 PM
  #315
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MAB is gone forever, accept it.

Second, if anything they are gearing up for a deadline deal. I doubt they do too much especially since boyd cleared.

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11-11-2010, 01:53 PM
  #316
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Bye O'Byrne. :[. One of my favorite players on the team.

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11-11-2010, 01:53 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by MrNasty View Post
For what it is worth. Here is the what THN had for Bournival in their draft preview guide:

One of the biggest complaints scouts have about players in his age bracket is their lack of consistent effort, but that is not a problem with Bournival.
"I love his overall energy package" one scout said. "If you watch Shawinigan play 10 times, you see the same Bournival 8 times. he's a consistent physical player who doesn't pick and choose who he runs into."
Bournival scored at a point-per-game pace before reprsenting Canada in the world under-18's, but it is not his offense that will get him into the NHL. While scouts are pleased he can score, they're more impressed with his overall body of work.
Bournival is projected as an energy player who won't take bad penalties and can cover any zone on the ice.
"He's probably the grittiest of all Quebec kids", another scout said.
"He goes hard on forechecks and gives you a bit of everything. He plays hard; a good third line type of player."

After reading that description of Bournival he seems to be in the mold of a Patrice Bergeron type of player..

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11-11-2010, 01:54 PM
  #318
LyleOdelein
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
No way in heck that Picard is better defensively than OB. He's a better puck mover no doubt, which is why JM likes him better. OB is better one on one, as a shot blocker and 100x better in the physical game.

The only downside to this trade is we'll end up overpaying for the type of player OB will end up being in Colorado. To me it's a lot like the Latendresse trade, though we got a much younger player back(unlike Pouliot).

The reason I don't hate the trade is that unless JM is getting fired sometime this year or in the off season, OB was only going to play sporadically and maybe end up losing value, us losing him on waivers.
I said that Picard's defensive play has been better than O'B's this season.

I agree that O'B's size and strength gives him the potential to have a better defensive game than Picard. However, when they were playing for their jobs, Picard outshone O'B in his area of strength.

Picard has done a great job of playing within his means so far this season. I'm by no means sold on Picard as a great long-term asset, but you have to give credit to a guy that's paid his dues and stole a job from a guy who had a significant inside track before the season started.

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11-11-2010, 01:59 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Jee View Post
I don't like us getting rid of Ryan O'Byrne.
Quite right. Just another moronic move in a long line of them....

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Old
11-11-2010, 01:59 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I'm coming around to the idea of MAB and I'll tell you why. We're 3rd in the league while Spacek wasn't producing and was arguably worse than MAB defensively for like 90% of the games he played.

MAB can actually contribute offensively. Still though it's an aspect of his game that makes me cringe.
MAB can`t play in the NHL as a top 6 defenseman...not on a playoff team anyways.

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11-11-2010, 01:59 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
MAB is gone forever, accept it.

Second, if anything they are gearing up for a deadline deal. I doubt they do too much especially since boyd cleared.
I'm not sure about that.

I believe that managements first option was to drop Boyd and now, by trading O'Byrne, they went to plan B. They moved salary, opened up a roster spot and they seemed in a hurry to do it considering that Boyd was placed on waivers only a couple of days ago. They didn't wait to long before dealing O'Byrne after Boyd cleared probably because the deal was already on the table.

My prediction is that they are looking for a PP specialist...

a. Through trades: Bieksa, Souray (doubt it), etc
b. Through FA signings: Bergeron, etc.
c. Promote someone in the system: Weber

They have done similar things when the power play was awful in the past by signing Bergeron and trading for Schneider.

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Old
11-11-2010, 02:00 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
I'm coming around to the idea of MAB and I'll tell you why. We're 3rd in the league while Spacek wasn't producing and was arguably worse than MAB defensively for like 90% of the games he played.

MAB can actually contribute offensively. Still though it's an aspect of his game that makes me cringe.
This is crazy. If MAB had been asked to shut down the Sedin line he would've lain down on the ice and cried until the game is over. The guy has an incredible shot and decent offensive instincts but he cannot play defence in his own zone and he's beyond useless as a 4th line winger. There is simply no way he could replace Spacek. Spacek can play better than his worst. MAB brings all his awfullness each and every game.

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Old
11-11-2010, 02:01 PM
  #323
Universe
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Another six foot center?

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Old
11-11-2010, 02:02 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by LyleOdelein View Post
I said that Picard's defensive play has been better than O'B's this season.

I agree that O'B's size and strength gives him the potential to have a better defensive game than Picard. However, when they were playing for their jobs, Picard outshone O'B in his area of strength.

Picard has done a great job of playing within his means so far this season. I'm by no means sold on Picard as a great long-term asset, but you have to give credit to a guy that's paid his dues and stole a job from a guy who had a significant inside track before the season started.
I don`t agree taht Picard has been better defensively this year, but I won`t argue about it.

OB needs to go play for a coach that will believe in him and snd him back out there after he makes a mistake. He`ll have a solid NHL career as a /4-5 guy who plays physcal and acn drop the gloves.

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Old
11-11-2010, 02:05 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don`t think OB made as many defensive miscues in those 3 games than Picard did, him and Subban were horrid at times, but Price stood on his head to bail them out so they came out of it with a nice +- and people took taht to mean Picard was good defensively.
Well, people may have been confused but having watched most games this season, I saw Picard productive and I saw OB as a liability. Its all about viewpoints. JM does not seem to care much for OB and OB had his chance in Montreal. I much prefer getting Bournival than have OB sitting in the stands for every game.....

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