HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Montreal-Chicago proposal

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-20-2005, 12:19 PM
  #1
FTK
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Longueuil
Posts: 560
vCash: 500
Montreal-Chicago proposal

Sheldon Souray, Mike Ribeiro, Tomas Plekanec

for

Mark Bell, Éric Dazé, Jim Vandermeer

FTK is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 12:41 PM
  #2
Aarex
Registered User
 
Aarex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,273
vCash: 500
I really don't know how willing chicago would be to let go of Mark Bell. I also don't see why Daze is included in that package.

Aarex is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 01:07 PM
  #3
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,194
vCash: 500
No deal from a Montreal point of view...

I love Mark Bell's play though

417 is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 01:25 PM
  #4
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,404
vCash: 500
Not bad value-wise but Chi-Town will most likely keep it's young players like Vandermeer & Bell, both are physical and fit in to 'hawks roster very well.

Pepper is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 01:34 PM
  #5
waffledave
waffledave, from hf
 
waffledave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,328
vCash: 500
I really like Souray too much to let him go, but otherwise I'd do this for sure.

waffledave is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 02:09 PM
  #6
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,334
vCash: 500
Interesting... but I don't think Chicago would feel the need to make such a move. They don't want to get smaller (Ribeiro/Plekanec) so they don't need to pay this price, since they have lots of prospects coming. Arnason is basically Ribeiro already and they don't know if they even want him, so I don't see any remote interest there.

For the Habs... I wouldn't want to lose Souray, since we can't afford to give up any quality on our D. But for Bell... I'd probably bite the bullet. Daze has zero value to me in any trade, since he'll be on the market very cheaply soon enough. (Even when he is, however, I wouldn't want him... there will always be better ways to spend that money.)

Blind Gardien is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 02:16 PM
  #7
MS
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 11,861
vCash: 500
Daze has roughly equal value to Souray ... pending CBA could of course change that, but as it's stands they're about the same age/impact.
Vandermeer has roughly equal value to Plekanec (although Vandermeer would have way more value to Chicago due to their blueline problems)

Bell>>>>>>Ribiero.

Switch Ribiero for Ryder and it's fairly close, value-wise.

MS is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 02:35 PM
  #8
417
Registered User
 
417's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Haiti
Posts: 19,194
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Daze has roughly equal value to Souray ... pending CBA could of course change that, but as it's stands they're about the same age/impact.
Vandermeer has roughly equal value to Plekanec (although Vandermeer would have way more value to Chicago due to their blueline problems)

Bell>>>>>>Ribiero.
Switch Ribiero for Ryder and it's fairly close, value-wise.
Wow..

People on this board are so obsessed with size it's not even funny...

I really like Mark Bell, but how can you say Bell>>>>>>Ribeiro...let's look at their respective careers...

Mark Bell, 24yrs old, 6'3 and 205lbs, drafted 8th overall in 1998 NHL draft...

47 goals 56 assist for 103 pts in 257 NHL games

Mike Ribeiro, 25yrs old (few months older), 6'0 180lbs, drafted 2nd round 45th overall in 1998 NHL draft...

34 goals 68 assist for 102pts in 197 NHL games

They've scored the same amount of points, although Ribeiro did it in 60 less NHL games, not to mention Ribeiro has outscored him in every league they've both played in...

I'm not going to get into a debate about who's better...

1.Because they're 2 completely different players
2.it's pointless

But to say Bell >>>>>> Ribeiro is ridiculous, as i've said, too many people here love size over skill, it's like an obsession, no matter how much a smaller player can outscore a bigger one, the bigger one will always get more props around here...

417 is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 02:42 PM
  #9
Gardebut30
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 1,978
vCash: 500
I'd rather keep Bell and Vandy. Daze you can have. His back is a pretzel. Besides, I think Wirtz would rather have a cheap d-man in Vandermeer than a higher priced one in Souray. Bell and Vandermeer fit into where we would like the organization to go, so I doubt seeing two young, cheap players (for the time being) go anywhere. Nothing against what you offered.

Gardebut30 is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 03:00 PM
  #10
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,334
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Daze has roughly equal value to Souray ... pending CBA could of course change that, but as it's stands they're about the same age/impact.
?! I would say that Daze has the lowest value of anybody in that offer. If his career doesn't end with back surgeries, he'll be an UFA whenever his over-valued contract is up. I don't think any team would remotely consider trading anything for him, unless he happened to be playing well right at the trade deadline.
Quote:
Vandermeer has roughly equal value to Plekanec (although Vandermeer would have way more value to Chicago due to their blueline problems)
Approximately agreed... Vandermeer may soon become expendable with Chicago, but that time probably hasn't arrived yet, and he's a good cheap placeholder for now. Plekanec will have to catch a break somewhere to get a spot in the NHL.
Quote:
Bell>>>>>>Ribiero.

Switch Ribiero for Ryder and it's fairly close, value-wise.
I don't know how to quantify ">>>>>>", but basically agreed. I would prefer to compare Bell and Souray as the two highest-value commodities in this trade. Vandermeer and Plekanec are on the fringes. Ribeiro only has value to certain teams in certain situations, probably not Chicago. Daze is worthless in a trade.

Blind Gardien is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 03:48 PM
  #11
salty justice
Registered User
 
salty justice's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Country: Albania
Posts: 7,155
vCash: 500
The deal isnt that bad in terms of player value, but those players just dont fit the direction the Hawks are going in. I wouldnt mind parting with Daze and Vandermeer, so if you take out the two players with the most value (Ribiero and Bell) Id do this, but I dont think the Habs would.

Id like a vet like Souray to help mentor guys like Barker and Seabrook, but with the same token its also nice to have a fairly young physical type dman like Vandy2 to pair with the offensive talents of Barker or Seabrook in a couple years.

salty justice is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 04:07 PM
  #12
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
 
NFITO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,847
vCash: 500
I'd have to say, it's solid value-wise.

Souray is worth more than Daze at this point, and Daze's value is probably pretty close to nothing.

But Bell is the most valuable player in the pkg - not just for the type/style of player he is, but also the fact that he is still young, improving (just like Ribeiro), cheap, and plays a role that both teams need - he's a sandpaper guy that can play in the top 6 effectively already in his career, and should continue getting better.

The deal won't work though because as even as it might look on paper, Chicago would not give a lot of value to this pkg for Bell - a player they have no need nor desire to deal.

Ribeiro's value might be the sky for Montreal, but on a team that has gone through the ups and downs of a very similar player, and still have that player on the roster, I doubt they'd have any interest at all in Ribeiro. Both players had pretty good offensive totals on their respective teams - but put them together on the same team, and I think it would hurt the team. Their styles and what they bring to the team, are similar.

That's why the deal can't work. Chicago is giving up something they don't want to lose, and half the pkg coming back (basically) is something they don't want.

For Montreal - I think they would do it - but only if they can add a UFA replacement for Souray. He still plays a role on the team that IMO can't be replaced as effectively from within. But the chance to get a player like Bell, would be worth it - and an excuse to take the chance on Daze, who could - however slim, bounce back - afterall a year off has gotta do wonders for his health.

Ribeiro can be replaced from within (Bonk), and Bell had played center before as well.

NFITO is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 06:02 PM
  #13
DisgruntledHawkFan
Moderator
 
DisgruntledHawkFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 21,346
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DisgruntledHawkFan
As much as I dislike Daisy, if he can stay healthy he's the only player outside of Ruutu capable of putting up 30+ goals on the Blackhawks roster. Ribs is another Arnason scenario, I doubt he and Sutter mesh. Bell and Vandermeer are both cheap and young, and are both possible captains down the line. Vandermeer really doesn't get enough credit for being as good as he is.

DisgruntledHawkFan is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 06:39 PM
  #14
Classic Devil
Global Moderator
Spirit of 1988
 
Classic Devil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 33,197
vCash: 500
Awards:
Chicago says no and moves on.

Classic Devil is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 07:49 PM
  #15
Trottier
Very Random
 
Trottier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 27,494
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTK
Sheldon Souray, Mike Ribeiro, Tomas Plekanec

for

Mark Bell, Éric Dazé, Jim Vandermeer
Chicago just got significantly smaller and less physical.

Trottier is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 08:18 PM
  #16
Spooky371*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,024
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTK
Sheldon Souray, Mike Ribeiro, Tomas Plekanec

for

Mark Bell, Éric Dazé, Jim Vandermeer
Not bad proposal.
Habs save a lot of cash because With Dazé, he didnt need Kovalev.
Montreal have a lot (too much) of '' small and agility '' player, Pleky are one of that.
Souray are the biggest lost, General at the blue line, leader etc...
Mike Ribeiro can be remplace easily by Chris Higgins.
With Ca$h we can sign Aucoin for replace Souray.
Trade Dagenais and pick 2 for Petrovicky and pick 5.

And the line up after the lock out :
Dazé - Koivu - Perezhogin (Very nice scoring line..)
Zednik - Higgins - Ryder (Nice too if Ryder continue score..)
Bell - Bonk - Bulis (Amazing 2way line !!!)
Sundstrom - Bégin - Petrovicky (Good Checking and D line..)
Aucoin - Komisarek
Markov - Vandermeer
Rivet - Brisebois or Hainsey or Bouillon.


Spooky371* is offline  
Old
05-20-2005, 08:25 PM
  #17
Matty
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Strawberry Fields
Posts: 2,396
vCash: 500
Wow. If I were the Habs I would be all over this deal. I am a big fan of Bell and think he has all the tools to become a player like Doan.

No way Chicago considers this deal though. Souray would be a very nice addition but not enough to land a youngster like Bell IMO.

Matty is offline  
Old
05-21-2005, 12:36 AM
  #18
Taupy
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,819
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooky371
Trade Dagenais and pick 2 for Petrovicky and pick 5.
NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

Taupy is offline  
Old
05-22-2005, 05:36 PM
  #19
Malakhov
Registered User
 
Malakhov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Martinique
Posts: 3,430
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Malakhov
Value wise it's good but the deal would be horrible for both teams.

Malakhov is offline  
Old
05-22-2005, 07:03 PM
  #20
f1nn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Espoo, Finland
Country: Finland
Posts: 2,782
vCash: 1312
Send a message via AIM to f1nn
how bout ruutu for koivu?

f1nn is offline  
Old
05-22-2005, 10:22 PM
  #21
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 36,963
vCash: 500
The Hawks are not going to trade Bell or Ruttu, so it is kind of a moot point. But, Koivu for Ruttu is brutal for the Hawks.

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
05-22-2005, 11:48 PM
  #22
Rob Paxon
Z E M G U S
 
Rob Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: corfu, ny
Country: United States
Posts: 16,265
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rob Paxon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov
Value wise it's good but the deal would be horrible for both teams.
Agree on the first point, but on the second I'm not so sure. It'd be bad for Chicago but I wouldn't say "horrible" for Montreal. If they can replace Souray in free agency (certainly isn't hard to believe that they could), they make out pretty well. They can afford to give up Ribs and Pleks because they have really an excess of skilled, small players on the roster and in the system. Vandermeer could help the defense but obviously wouldn't replace Souray. Daze is no spring chicken and he is overpaid, but he does add size and power to the team. He's just a throw-in who can produce big if healthy... Bell is the real return and he could play a big role for the Habs.

I don't see why Chicago would want to do it, though. I don't see them moving any young guys at this point as they're in a very good position to grow their core. On the other hand, Montreal's in a position to be a good playoff team, but simply letting their youngsters grow probably isn't going to put them over the top as much as getting a better mix of player types would.

Rob Paxon is online now  
Old
05-23-2005, 02:35 AM
  #23
fred2792
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Ste-Therese
Country: Canada
Posts: 206
vCash: 500
I'm not completely sold on this one. From Mtl point of view, I prefere to take Bell and Vandermeer for Zednik and Souray. Center is a concern for us and I wouldn't trade Ribeiro. A second line with Ribeiro, Ryder and Bell could be nice. On defence, Souray have a injury-prone like Dazé and it's why I'm not realy sold on that one. I prefer to sign Kovalev. For Vandermeer, he could become a solid all-around defenseman and play physical, good choice.

fred2792 is offline  
Old
05-23-2005, 07:34 AM
  #24
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
 
Psycho Papa Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cesspool, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,357
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS
Daze has roughly equal value to Souray
Quote:
Vandermeer has roughly equal value to Plekanec (although Vandermeer would have way more value to Chicago due to their blueline problems)
At least show some consistency in your assessments. Since Souray is a d-man, he like Vandemeer, should hold more value to the Hawks than a forward, per your reasoning.

Psycho Papa Joe is offline  
Old
05-23-2005, 05:34 PM
  #25
DisgruntledHawkFan
Moderator
 
DisgruntledHawkFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 21,346
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to DisgruntledHawkFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Joe
At least show some consistency in your assessments. Since Souray is a d-man, he like Vandemeer, should hold more value to the Hawks than a forward, per your reasoning.
Not with the hawks problems when it comes to scoring forwards.

DisgruntledHawkFan is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:09 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.