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Old
11-11-2010, 10:48 PM
  #26
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post


Hillarious...........................

uhmmm... wait..... you aren't serious... aren't you???
You want to count how many games he's played in the past 3 seasons? I count 130, out of a possible 246. It's not like it's been one injury either, broken leg, broken hand, achillies tendon, torn ACL.

Just because the guy has 6 goals in 13 games doesn't mean a team can reasonably assume he's on track for 38 goals, or by that same standard Clarke MacArthur could be reasonably expected to pot 38 aswell.

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Old
11-11-2010, 11:09 PM
  #27
dabeechman
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
You want to count how many games he's played in the past 3 seasons? I count 130, out of a possible 246. It's not like it's been one injury either, broken leg, broken hand, achillies tendon, torn ACL.

Just because the guy has 6 goals in 13 games doesn't mean a team can reasonably assume he's on track for 38 goals, or by that same standard Clarke MacArthur could be reasonably expected to pot 38 aswell.
He isn't made of glass. His injuries are the type of injuries that any player would get hurt by. Getting hit in the hand with the puck, falling on his own leg...otherwise he is a completely solid player. He isn't like a Gaborik who pulls his groin stepping out of the car.

But you are the biggest Leaf homer on the boards, so we already know what your position is on any proposal.

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11-11-2010, 11:13 PM
  #28
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by dabeechman View Post
He isn't made of glass. His injuries are the type of injuries that any player would get hurt by. Getting hit in the hand with the puck, falling on his own leg...otherwise he is a completely solid player. He isn't like a Gaborik who pulls his groin stepping out of the car.

But you are the biggest Leaf homer on the boards, so we already know what your position is on any proposal.
Yet not every player gets hurt with those injuries...

When you've missed almost half of the games in the past 3 seasons with 4 different injures (all of the long term variety).....it's called being injury prone.

I've got no problem identifying a good proposal, but one where the teams trade relatively equivalent level RWers, but one of them is younger, less injury prone, and has a better contract situation, this isn't a good proposal. From there Moller for Beauchemin makes absolutely no sense.

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Old
11-11-2010, 11:23 PM
  #29
dabeechman
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Yet not every player gets hurt with those injuries...

When you've missed almost half of the games in the past 3 seasons with 4 different injures (all of the long term variety).....it's called being injury prone.

I've got no problem identifying a good proposal, but one where the teams trade relatively equivalent level RWers, but one of them is younger, less injury prone, and has a better contract situation, this isn't a good proposal. From there Moller for Beauchemin makes absolutely no sense.
Ya? Play hockey? Take a shot to the hand. See how you fair with it. Then go twist your knee backwards and fall on it. See if you walk away from that too.

Like I said, freak accidents. He isn't a glass player. End of discussion.

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Old
11-11-2010, 11:29 PM
  #30
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by dabeechman View Post
Ya? Play hockey? Take a shot to the hand. See how you fair with it. Then go twist your knee backwards and fall on it. See if you walk away from that too.

Like I said, freak accidents. He isn't a glass player. End of discussion.
Taken plenty of shots to the hand. It's a regular occurance at all levels. The players who aren't injury prone either move their hand or don't get hurt by it. Same thing for twisting knees, the players who aren't injury prone make sure their knees don't get twisted.

One-two injuries in a 2-3 years is a freak incident. 4 in 3 years is a pattern. He's injury prone. End of discussion.

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Old
11-11-2010, 11:47 PM
  #31
dabeechman
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Taken plenty of shots to the hand. It's a regular occurance at all levels. The players who aren't injury prone either move their hand or don't get hurt by it. Same thing for twisting knees, the players who aren't injury prone make sure their knees don't get twisted.

One-two injuries in a 2-3 years is a freak incident. 4 in 3 years is a pattern. He's injury prone. End of discussion.
Whatever, you just proved what I accused you of earlier.

Williams just scored again btw...

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11-11-2010, 11:49 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Yet not every player gets hurt with those injuries...

When you've missed almost half of the games in the past 3 seasons with 4 different injures (all of the long term variety).....it's called being injury prone.

I've got no problem identifying a good proposal, but one where the teams trade relatively equivalent level RWers, but one of them is younger, less injury prone, and has a better contract situation, this isn't a good proposal. From there Moller for Beauchemin makes absolutely no sense.
Anyone who thinks Carl Gunnarsson, a healthy scratch for Holzer is worth what you think he is worth, goes down in credibility when speaking on trade proposals.

I can agree Williams has been a magnet to injuries, fluke or otherwise. But Beauchemin has not looked great, on what has been an awful D this year. Schenn has looked solid year round, and for the most part so has Kaberle. But Gunny is lost, Holzer is well Holzer, Lebda clearly overpaid, Phaneuf was battling something before the injury, and Komisarek another overpaid guy.

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Old
11-11-2010, 11:55 PM
  #33
dabeechman
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Same thing for twisting knees, the players who aren't injury prone make sure their knees don't get twisted.
But you're right, I am sure you would have walked away from this since you aren't injury prone...



Last edited by dabeechman: 11-11-2010 at 11:56 PM. Reason: Not working...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzv_DrEl_pU&feature=related
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Old
11-11-2010, 11:58 PM
  #34
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well Williams didn't get hurt but he added to his 7 game scoring streak with his 7th goal of the year. Our other bum Johnson that we didn't want to trade just got his 9th assist in the last 8 games too. The only prospect that is currently not on our roster that I don't want to trade is Forbort so I don't think our prospects are untouchable. I am not a big fan of Moller because his high end reminds me of a Versteeg whom I also am not a fan of.

I like a defenseman of yours named Schenn, and I know he is about as untouchable as his brother so I wont ask. We don't need any others at this point. The proposal is well balanced in my mind player wise, but the way Williams is playing, which includes his never say die attitude and the fact a defenceman is not needed I would pass.

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Old
11-12-2010, 07:31 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by kingznut100 View Post
No flaming, but why do the Kings do this. Versteeg is a nice role player, the ex-quack is not needed, we have 4-5 NHL caliber defensemen in the AHL and the best D in the league so far, even with the injuries! Offer up a 1st line Left winger and we can talk.
what first line left winger?

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Old
11-12-2010, 07:35 AM
  #36
Andre Benoit Bawls
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
A very valuable defenseman on a porous and defensively inept team doesn't say much.
Statistically they're not inept at all, and watching them they're pretty good, and on paper they're very good.

Have you watched the Leafs at all this year? Doesn't sound like it.

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Old
11-12-2010, 07:58 AM
  #37
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7 goals, 8 assists in 14 games for J-dub so far this season...

But, I thought he was a salary dump according to HF'rs?

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Old
11-12-2010, 08:33 AM
  #38
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by SoulAssassin View Post
Anyone who thinks Carl Gunnarsson, a healthy scratch for Holzer is worth what you think he is worth, goes down in credibility when speaking on trade proposals.

I can agree Williams has been a magnet to injuries, fluke or otherwise. But Beauchemin has not looked great, on what has been an awful D this year. Schenn has looked solid year round, and for the most part so has Kaberle. But Gunny is lost, Holzer is well Holzer, Lebda clearly overpaid, Phaneuf was battling something before the injury, and Komisarek another overpaid guy.
Player value changes as time goes on. In the case of Gunnarsson, he was Toronto's best last year, and his value was reflective of that. This year he's been suffering from the sophmore slump and his value to Toronto (and other teams) is decreasing slightly because of it.

Toronto's D has been far from awful, if you think that's the case, you should really watch more leaf games and look at more than the giveaway stat. He's been the one covering for Phaneuf's mistakes and is very solid in 1on1 coverage, something that is extremely important since the Leafs play an uptempo style. They've been awful as of recent, but that's because tehy cant' score any goals and the team as a collective is playing awful.

You may not want him, but right now it would take a bonafide top line player for Toronto to trade any of their top 5 defencemen. That's not saying you should trade a guy of that calibre for one of our defencemen, simply that's what it would take to make Toronto a better team.

Kris Versteeg for Justin Williams is a lateral move at absolute best for Toronto, and most likely a horrible move. Williams is off to a hot start while Versteeg has been playing like crap, but a reasonable fan would realize that a big reason for this difference is that Los Angeles has Kopitar on the first line while Williams has been able to play his proper position on the 2nd line (with Smyth / Stoll making space). In Toronto, Versteeg has been tasked with being the guy to create space for Kessel on the first line, and that's nowhere near his game. Chances are, Williams hot start cools off while Versteeg's poor start picks up. Neither can be reasonably expected to score 35 goals, just like neither can be expected to end up with 12 over a full season. There's also a pretty good chance that Williams finds his way to being injured again, while Versteeg has missed 7 games in the 2 years he's been in the league.

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Old
11-12-2010, 09:19 AM
  #39
Moses Doughty
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Originally Posted by crediblepest View Post
Just stop with the trade proposals with the Kings. Apparently everyon e on their team is untouchable. Justin Williams (no matter how hot he is) is untouchable?
So the Kings should trade our SCORING LEADER and at worst the second best forward so far with a good prospect for a winger who isnt as good as Williams and a D we dont need

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11-12-2010, 09:37 AM
  #40
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I'm convinced nobody on this board watches any hockey besides games of their own team (from time to time,) and have absolutely no idea what a team's needs are when they are proposing trades with them (this goes for some of the crazy Kings fans too.)

LA has arguably a Top 5 defense in the NHL, and have looked Top 3 or even the best at some points this season. We are LOADED on D, and our GLARING WEAKNESS is scoring goals. If we can get more goal scoring, we have a shot at making a deep playoff run. With all that in mind, what is the solution? Trade our leading scorer and a prospect for a D man and a dude that has scored 2 goals this year! THE CUP IS OURS!

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Old
11-12-2010, 10:03 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Let's see here...

Justin Williams has 6 goals, 14 points, which would be tops on the Leafs, which would be tops on the Leafs. Versteeg has 2 goals and 6 points.

Yeah, makes sense why the Kings would do it.
While I do think Toronto wins this deal...and I can why Kings fans might not like it, I will say that a 1-1 comparison between Williams and Versteeg, I would take Versteeg by a fair amount. I just think he has more potential, and is at a similar level today. He has shown he can produce with a decent team around him.

If Williams came to Toronto, he would not have 14 points.

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Old
11-12-2010, 10:51 AM
  #42
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The Kings don't need another D-Man and I would rather have Williams in the Kings current position than Versteeg.

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11-12-2010, 11:38 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by HFKessSnipes View Post
While I do think Toronto wins this deal...and I can why Kings fans might not like it, I will say that a 1-1 comparison between Williams and Versteeg, I would take Versteeg by a fair amount. I just think he has more potential, and is at a similar level today. He has shown he can produce with a decent team around him.

If Williams came to Toronto, he would not have 14 points.
The Kings are looking for now, and Williams is a PROVEN 30 goal scorer. Versteeg is obviously a now player, but his current forum and past does not indicate 30 goals. We have 3 similar players stat wise past and present to Versteeg (Poni, Zus, Simmer) and they make up our 3rd line. We need a 1st line LW, so we'll pass. Versteeg will be useful for Toronto more then he would be for LA

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Old
11-12-2010, 11:46 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by bringthecuphome View Post
Deal from Leafs fan. Williams is a threat for 30 when healthy, and Moller can be a pretty good checking center.
by this did you mean pretty good at getting checked?


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Old
11-12-2010, 12:00 PM
  #45
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by this did you mean pretty good at getting checked?

Way to post a video that showcases one of your players as being a giant *****!

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11-12-2010, 12:05 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post


Hillarious...........................

uhmmm... wait..... you aren't serious... aren't you???
the guys a joke pay no mind. No proposal has ever been good enough to pry the unbelievable talents of Beauchemin away from our team. Pay no mind he does not speak for the masses as much as he believes he does.

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Old
11-12-2010, 12:22 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by OK Computer View Post
Way to post a video that showcases one of your players as being a giant *****!
That video is embarrassing for Kings fans I hope.

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Old
11-12-2010, 12:25 PM
  #48
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That video is embarrassing for Kings fans I hope.
This... they try to portray Moller as some hero. I laughed.

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Old
11-12-2010, 12:42 PM
  #49
DontgoZiggy
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That video is embarrassing for Kings fans I hope.
Huh?, Moller's about 5 foot tall, he gets nailed into the boards, but he gets back up. Tough kid.

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Old
11-12-2010, 01:18 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by HFKessSnipes View Post
That video is embarrassing for Kings fans I hope.
How is that an embarrassment? The kid gives up 6 inches and 40 pounds, but he still hung in there moved the puck, took the hit, and popped back up and went after the much bigger Ryan. That's stones man, that's the type of attitude I want in all the players on my team. Good on you Moller, you just earned more respect in my books

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