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Carter close to signing 10-year deal (post #441 and #675); Leino update (# 675)

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Old
11-12-2010, 09:31 AM
  #551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Daniel Sedin

2010
2 games - 0pts, even
13 games - 18pts, +3

2009-10
Not going to go through all his numbers but he played in 63 games and was shut out only 14 times, or 22% of the time. Cap hit of $6.1mill.
bad comparison.

imagine if Carter played on the same line as his equally skilled twin brother, who he had insane chemistry with. we might seen something similar.

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11-12-2010, 09:32 AM
  #552
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Daniel Sedin

2010
2 games - 0pts, even
13 games - 18pts, +3

2009-10
Not going to go through all his numbers but he played in 63 games and was shut out only 14 times, or 22% of the time. Cap hit of $6.1mill.
Now's a good time to start rooting for the Nucks, then.

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11-12-2010, 09:32 AM
  #553
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Not a chance. The cap is expected to go up yet again this year because of the impending TV deal. Every year, regardless of the lock out, the recession, teams in the sunbelt doing badly, the cap has increased. Giving Carter 750,000 more than what he's making right now, assuming that's Homer's plan, signing Roo to a nice cap hit of under 4 million, having Richards locked up at a terrific cap hit makes all the sense in the world. By the time Kimmo and Briere are ready to either retire or sign on for less money, Coburn, Carle and Meszaros will be in their prime. I'm not going to worry about what may or may not happen 3, 4 or 5 years from now. I'd rather enjoy the team as they're playing right now. Finally we have a great coach, a terrific goalie, phenomenal defense and awesome offense yet people can't enjoy what's right in front of their faces.
I find it hard to believe that any TV deal is going to be lucritive enough to actually raise the cap when you have 1/4 of the league in the red. Also take into account teh CBA expires and a new deal is going to have to be addressed.

All I am saying is why do it now? If he has a great season you can still do a 15yr deal for $100mill, OR his value will be so high that you can get an amazing return which will still give you talent back but more cap flexibility going forward. Just wait, he is still a RFA and the season is still young. His having a great season does not change anything, whereas have an equal season to last year which I think is more realistic will keep his value low and easier to resign. Win-Win.

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11-12-2010, 09:34 AM
  #554
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Not only will people cry here, but how many people will cry around the league. There's some people out there who are waiting for someone to get back at the Flyers for going after Ryan Kesler by signing Carter or Richards to offer sheets. That's not happening. Giroux? That's not happening. JVR I guess? Unlikely.
I really like JVR, but if someone wants to dump a $5 million offer sheet on him, be my freaking guest.

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11-12-2010, 09:34 AM
  #555
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
bad comparison.

imagine if Carter played on the same line as his equally skilled twin brother, who he had insane chemistry with. we might seen something similar.
But I thought Carter could score with a couple monkeys on his line? He creates chances for himself. It is not like Carter has been playing wiht inferior linemates or guys who cannot play in the top 6 on any team in the NHL, that is a copout.

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11-12-2010, 09:36 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
But I thought Carter could score with a couple monkeys on his line? He creates chances for himself. It is not like Carter has been playing wiht inferior linemates or guys who cannot play in the top 6 on any team in the NHL, that is a copout.
he isnt playing with someone he was born with, and learned to play hockey with. the sedins' chemistry is borderline creepy.

also, when the hell did i say that monkey ****? never. not once.

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11-12-2010, 09:37 AM
  #557
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Old
11-12-2010, 09:38 AM
  #558
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
It mostly comes from one person who's done his best to destroy Carter's reputation. It's easy to talk smack when you're hiding behind a computer but at some point I wish someone would step in and do something. It's one thing to rip a player based on reality but when it gets personal and is based on delusion, it's just wrong.
Destroying reputation...........wow.

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11-12-2010, 09:40 AM
  #559
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Originally Posted by agrudez View Post
Comparing Datsyuk to Carter in terms of playoff contributions is crazy.

Think of Datsyuk as Ryan Howard... he carried his team through the playoffs for a few years and even won a ring, but his last performance was bad. Does that make him a bad playoff performer? No.

Now think of Carter as Pat Burrell... neither has ever done jack **** in the playoffs and have rode their team to success in the playoffs. Does that make them worth a heavy cap hit? No.
Actually Datsyuk was ripped when they extended him in the 2007 season because he hadn't performed well in the playoffs. Before the 2007 season Datsyuk had played in 42 playoff games with an impressive 3 goals and 12 assists. Carter has 19 points in 41 playoff games.

Obviously since then he's been a lot better but it's actually a reasonable comparison.

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11-12-2010, 09:42 AM
  #560
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
But I thought Carter could score with a couple monkeys on his line? He creates chances for himself. It is not like Carter has been playing wiht inferior linemates or guys who cannot play in the top 6 on any team in the NHL, that is a copout.
You really can't not see a difference in playing with skilled players versus playing with the same person for the last 25 years who can probably finish your sentence before you start it.

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11-12-2010, 09:45 AM
  #561
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I was thinking of this:


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11-12-2010, 09:47 AM
  #562
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Originally Posted by JojoTheWhale View Post
He only has to say yes to one team that wants him at $2m. It might be Gagne 2.0, but usually these things work out, Toronto nonsense notwithstanding.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, and I hope I'm not because it would make Walker and a 4th that much worse, they approached Gagne and asked if he'd be willing to waive. He said yes, but only to Tampa, and they took what they could get. I don't get the sense that Holmgren would essentially say Edmonton or sit at home and rot to Briere. It certainly wouldn't be a hockey trade, but I'd have to think the odds are in favor of them figuring out something that works for everyone.
In the NHL you do not just shed salary, so a deal like Gagne's was because he agreed to go to a team that could absorb the cap hit AND he agreed to move his NTC. Most likely a deal would mean you would get something in return, like a Walker type deal. Whereas moving Carter you could get the possibility of equal value to four 1st rd draft picks due to his RFA status, plus the big contract....you do the math.....!

A NMC is very stringent in the fact the player cannot be waived, so if Briere likes where he is he does not have to agree, so say he does not, what do you do, move Hartnell? He is filling a need on this team of a fwd who can go to the net, this is how teams fill roles. Carle, Coburn, Meszaros....wasn't Homers objective to build from the defense out, does it not seem to be working? Again, in an uncapped world there is no problem, but in a capped world it gets tougher to navigate.

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11-12-2010, 09:49 AM
  #563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agrudez
Comparing Datsyuk to Carter in terms of playoff contributions is crazy.

Think of Datsyuk as Ryan Howard... he carried his team through the playoffs for a few years and even won a ring, but his last performance was bad. Does that make him a bad playoff performer? No.

Now think of Carter as Pat Burrell... neither has ever done jack **** in the playoffs and have rode their team to success in the playoffs. Does that make them worth a heavy cap hit? No.
Do you know anything at all about Pavel Datsyuk's history?

And to everyone going out here compiling ridiculous stats ie Carter scores goals in half the games or whatever. You do realize that this analysis has absolutely no relevance without comparing it to other players throughout the league, right?

This whole thing about coming up small and padding stats, being lazy, etc is a really poorly supported argument. If you want to argue that then bring some real evidence to back that

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11-12-2010, 09:51 AM
  #564
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Do you know anything at all about Pavel Datsyuk's history?

And to everyone going out here compiling ridiculous stats ie Carter scores goals in half the games or whatever. You do realize that this analysis has absolutely no relevance without comparing it to other players throughout the league, right?

This whole thing about coming up small and padding stats, being lazy, etc is a really poorly supported argument. If you want to argue that then bring some real evidence to back that
Love may be blind, but hate is often blind, deaf, and dumb.

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11-12-2010, 09:53 AM
  #565
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i wish we had more players who scored in half of their games. im pretty sure every team does.

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11-12-2010, 09:53 AM
  #566
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6 mill or less and I am happy with 10 years

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Old
11-12-2010, 09:55 AM
  #567
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
i wish we had more players who scored in half of their games. im pretty sure every team does.
Pfft. Scoring should be like in NHL 11 on Rookie difficulty, the way Bettman wants it. Football scores FTW!

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11-12-2010, 09:58 AM
  #568
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Sorry I meant to say scores points in half of the games. Point remains.

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11-12-2010, 10:05 AM
  #569
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
You really can't not see a difference in playing with skilled players versus playing with the same person for the last 25 years who can probably finish your sentence before you start it.
Dany Heatley:

2009-10
82 games - 27 game with no points, 32%.


Shall we go on. The kid is a streaky scorer, he disappears at times, he is what he is, but let's not pay him like he is going to be putting up those types of numbers. Maybe some think he is going to reach the 46 goal plateau again, I have serious doubts.

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11-12-2010, 10:07 AM
  #570
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Dany Heatley:

2009-10
82 games - 27 game with no points, 32%.


Shall we go on. The kid is a streaky scorer, he disappears at times, he is what he is, but let's not pay him like he is going to be putting up those types of numbers. Maybe some think he is going to reach the 46 goal plateau again, I have serious doubts.
Your posts are like reruns. Always on, never new.

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11-12-2010, 10:08 AM
  #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Dany Heatley:

2009-10
82 games - 27 game with no points, 32%.


Shall we go on. The kid is a streaky scorer, he disappears at times, he is what he is, but let's not pay him like he is going to be putting up those types of numbers. Maybe some think he is going to reach the 46 goal plateau again, I have serious doubts.
that's a whopping six game difference, that very well might not exist if the december-january incident didn't happen last season.

6 games doesnt prove your point at all. this year, carter could easily score in six more games than heatley does. that's within a margin of error

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11-12-2010, 10:15 AM
  #572
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
In the NHL you do not just shed salary, so a deal like Gagne's was because he agreed to go to a team that could absorb the cap hit AND he agreed to move his NTC. Most likely a deal would mean you would get something in return, like a Walker type deal. Whereas moving Carter you could get the possibility of equal value to four 1st rd draft picks due to his RFA status, plus the big contract....you do the math.....!

A NMC is very stringent in the fact the player cannot be waived, so if Briere likes where he is he does not have to agree, so say he does not, what do you do, move Hartnell? He is filling a need on this team of a fwd who can go to the net, this is how teams fill roles. Carle, Coburn, Meszaros....wasn't Homers objective to build from the defense out, does it not seem to be working? Again, in an uncapped world there is no problem, but in a capped world it gets tougher to navigate.
You're just throwing out nonsensical generalities at this point. Look at the specifics of the situation.

Even Mike Milbury wouldn't sign Jeff Carter to a $7.7m/year contract, so forget even the thought of 4 1sts. The offer would have to be about $6.2m/year to get 2 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. Since that's around the upper end of the realm of possibility for the value of his deal, no GM is going to offer $6.2 when $6.1 and under saves him an extra 1st rounder. So now you're talking about Carter for 10 years at say $5.75m or cap space and one 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd. Do you really think that 1st is going to be a top 5 pick? What's the likelihood of any of those draft picks or a free agent being the player that Carter is now? This is a team that's trying to win a Cup.

Off the top of my head, the most recent offensive weapons to change teams as a UFA in that price range were Cammalleri and Havlat. If you're signing someone as an RFA, then you're just switching the draft pick deck chairs around.

If you look at the structure of the Flyers' contracts, their key resignings are pretty spaced out. In all likelihood, they wouldn't have to move Briere until the last year of his deal, because it happens to line up with Giroux needing another contract.

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11-12-2010, 10:15 AM
  #573
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I don't know why everyone is dreaming of a 6m or less cap hit.

Looking at Eric Staal and Rick Nash, similar age and stats, here are their recent contract extensions and cap hits

Rick Nash: 8 years, 62.4m, 7.8m cap hit
Eric Staal: 7 years, 57.25m, 8.25 cap hit


So unless Carter gives a severe hometown discount, I'm thinking any cap hit around 6m is a pure pipe dream.

Get ready for 7.5+...

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11-12-2010, 10:16 AM
  #574
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Originally Posted by JojoTheWhale View Post
Mike Richards

2009-10
38 games, 0 points, -9
44 games, 62 points, +7

47% of the time he does not contribute on the score sheet, so yes, he does pad his stats.

This has got to be the single worst use of statistics I've ever seen and I once tried to use them to convince a cop to buy me beer when I was 17.
2010-11
16GP - 6 games, 0pts, 37.5%, reverse of Carter ironically. And I am the first to say Mike Richards is not a "producer" like Carter should be, he was not when he was drafted and it is his achilles heel, he tries to be more like Giroux or Briere instead of being more like Shane Doan.

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11-12-2010, 10:17 AM
  #575
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Originally Posted by Flyskippy View Post
Your posts are like reruns. Always on, never new.
And sometimes spot on.

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