Well if Carter signs the exact same deal (which I understand he won't) that Richie has left starting next season for the next ten years, it will work out to 10 years/54.6 million. So maybe there's hope of keeping the cap hit reasonable...
You think spending $4M on a 3rd pairing D is an appropriate use of resources?
And, no, Carle isn't a "proven top pairing d-man." He's a "proven he can play with one of the best d-men in the world" d-man. Carle has improved a bit since he got here, but if you went out and rocked a top pairing of him minus a world class D, you'd be in for a world of hurt.
You can do that when you aren't allocating those resources to another position, say goalie. Teams that allocate the most resources on goalies are usually the crappier teams.
For those of you who are *****ing, do you give 100% to your job every day? Never take an extended lunch? Do you ever show up late or sneak out early? Just wondering since you expect absolute perfection from one player so you must lead by example, right?
When I played sports, I can honestly say, I never took a night off. When I step on the field, in competition, I gave everything I had, every night.
What I am saying is giving out these contracts like candy is eventually going to catch up with Homer, let the season ride out and decide what to do from there, be patient. The claims about him is that he is a ppg scorer, which means he has to score 40 goals to meet that criteria because he will never get more assts than goals. My concerns are:a) do not overpay him b) do not give him a NTC/NMC c) do not give him more than 5yrs.
The sad fact of it is that none of us really know if it's going to end up being a problem, mostly because of the CBA situation.
I really don't have a problem letting him ride out the season if he wants 7/70 or something equally as ridiculous. But if you can get a long-term deal done that keeps it around the prime years of Richards' deal, he's a very good bet to remain the same productive player he's been and a solid bet to improve upon it. If he wants to be paid like a 40/40/80 guy, then waiting makes total sense to me. But that doesn't mean you might not be forced to give it to him in the offseason. If he wants to take a little bit less for the security and the known value of the organization, or simply just values himself what I would call properly, I'm thrilled to sign on today for an excellent young player.
I'm personally hoping for the limited NTC that Hovercraft and others suggested, as it's probably the best compromise and I don't think you can get him signed today at a decent number without some protection.
Actually, the reason I'm so concerned about losing Carle is because I'd rather not replace two of my top 6 at once and it sure sounds like O'Donnell is one and done. The likelihood of two rookie defensemen playing significant minutes on a cup contender and having things go well is slim at best.
Leino is another story altogether. He's been nothing short of fantastic and a guy I could easily see becoming part of the core. Take a look at the number of consistent 20/40/60 wingers in the game who aren't sieves in their own end. The (hopefully) Leinos and Langenbrunners and J.P. Dumonts are the guys that get criminally undervalued.
How dare you reserve an opinion until later. That's sober-minded and rational talk and will get you nowhere around here!
which is why i dont post here often lmao. jk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
I mean, it's marketplace economics... don't know what to tell you. The cost of A is X, so we can get an idea of the cost of B based on a comparison in value between the two.
Jeff Carter will hit 40 goals independent of anything else going on with this team if he gets his shooting % up to the ~13% range. Whatever else you can say about him, he gets the puck on net and he has a wicked release. Some will go in, some will not... depending on what the hockey equivalent for BA is that year, he'll put up big goal totals.
I know thats how the real world works, I try to live in my world . I was more peeved at people on here using other players stats to put down or build him up.
I see no reason why he cant hit 40. Last night his shot looked awesome, he seemed to pick his spots better, and hit the net like he should. He was in good positon and used his size well, thats all i ask. Dont care if he actually scores everynight, just create opprotunities, and make teams pay for cheating. Like he made Ward pay for cheating. Those are the things i expect from him. He gets the puck on net, theres enough talent on this team to bury a rebound. Everyone seems to be in on the forecheck, and going to the net. Carter's shot is wicked enough to create a lot of havoc in the paint. I know he's gonna go high and wide, everyone does, Id like to see his on net shot % go up though. Seems too often he misses the net entirely. That isnt really any reason not to sign him.
My biggest issue, like ive said, is his consistancy. Not scoring consistancy, but showing up and playing consistancy. there's too many nights where he looked like hes on a leisurly skate. not so much this year though, seems to be involved more so far this year than last. A lot of that has to go to Lavi.
Im in wait and see mode. I want him to prove me wrong, just like Richards and Boucher did when I got on their cases last year.
For those of you who are *****ing, do you give 100% to your job every day? Never take an extended lunch? Do you ever show up late or sneak out early? Just wondering since you expect absolute perfection from one player so you must lead by example, right?
I can honestly say I have showed up everyday on time, and performed to the best of my abilities. Wether they appreciated it is a whole other can of worms.
All I ask from any player is to show up and play. Professional sports is an entertainment industry and they get paided VERY well to do that. I mean he's been touted as the great gola scorer, but at the end of the day, could careless as long as he gives an effort. what pissed me off was the games he'd look disinterested. This year he's looked so much better
I can honestly say I have showed up everyday on time, and performed to the best of my abilities. Wether they appreciated it is a whole other can of worms.
All I ask from any player is to show up and play. Professional sports is an entertainment industry and they get paided VERY well to do that. I mean he's been touted as the great gola scorer, but at the end of the day, could careless as long as he gives an effort. what pissed me off was the games he'd look disinterested. This year he's looked so much better
Rewind 10 - 15 years and your post would fit in with those giving a description of Lindros.
The fact of the matter is that Carter has 11 points in 15 games, which is almost PPG while spending most of his time in a position he is NOT suited to play.
In one specific 15 game stretch, Carter has only 5 goals in 15 games. Boo hoo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft
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No matter how you look at it, Carter is at least a 35 goal scorer. Hopefully Laviolette will stop playing him at wing soon because he sucks at it, but at Center is a huge part of this team.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Blaine
That hell be a 30-30 guy once or twice? Sure you can. It's also highly unlikely to happen. He's going to be in the midst of his prime. The only way he tops out at 30-30 is if the whole team sucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft
Who is going to replace is 30-35 goals in the regular season? We have already lost Gagne, Zherdev half sucks and JVR is super snakebitten.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87
Huh?
Weakness on the wings is probably the EASIEST position IN THE NHL to fill in. Wingers are plentiful and usually cheap, and even decent centers can move to wing and usually be just as effective (Briere for example). We can sign a Knuble type for cheap, but finding a 30-40 goal scorer is VERY difficult.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
...is BEST season ever was 23 ES goals in '06-'07. Carter has popped 20+ in each of the last three years.
Outside of two years ago, when Carter was ruining Hartnell's season, Hartnell has been a 12-13 ES goal guy... he had 23 with Carter centering him. God Carter brings guys down.
Leino wasn't a big goal scorer in Finland (outside of one year)... so I'll hold off there.
Giroux, our new savior, has 16 career ES goals in 141 games (just 1 this year).
Mike Richards' career high is 17... and he isn't going to touch that if he keeps centering the guys he's been saddled with the last couple of years.
So, sure, talk about trading Carter... but understand you're talking about trading our best even strength scorer. One of the reasons this team has been so PP dependent the last few years, is that a lot of our guys are far more effective as PP players offensively than they are at ES.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
I'll take the guy I can pencil in to average 35 goals a year over the next five years, thank you. We can deal one of our D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
And if you KEEP playing that moment out, the player will revert to mean.
And, seriously, if Carter never had a big game where he carried the team he'd be criticized for just being a compiler. Can't win. Carter is a streaky scorer... like the vast majority of guys in the league. The vast majority of the guys in the league can't come close to the totals he's put up.
And, yes, guys rack up points in blowouts... someone needs to be scoring to get those goals.
Above are all examples of what people think of Carter, a "35'ish goal scorer", which if he plays 82 games is around the 70pts mark, just under a ppg. I am going to find the scoring prediction thread because that is a much better example, a lot of people consider him an 80pt player which is equal to a ppg player. Even if he gets 70pts he is still in the Spezza range, $7mill cap hit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester
You think spending $4M on a 3rd pairing D is an appropriate use of resources?
And, no, Carle isn't a "proven top pairing d-man." He's a "proven he can play with one of the best d-men in the world" d-man. Carle has improved a bit since he got here, but if you went out and rocked a top pairing of him minus a world class D, you'd be in for a world of hurt.
I do not think spending $4mill on a 3rd pairing d-man, but Homer does and it seems to work and if it is going to help give Timonen a breather and another year of being able to play healthy hockey I invest in the defense because you are already contractually tied up in those guys. Carle has proven he can play as a top pairing and still put up some solid numbers.
For those of you who are *****ing, do you give 100% to your job every day? Never take an extended lunch? Do you ever show up late or sneak out early? Just wondering since you expect absolute perfection from one player so you must lead by example, right?
We don't get (presumably) paid millions of dollars. Nor are we in the public eye of entertainment (presumably). He's in the spotlight making millions, it comes with the territory. If Jeff Carter didn't live on essentially another plane of existence than myself, I probably wouldn't be so interested watching him.
Also, some people have a decent amount of money invested into the team, let alone "emotional" ties. The mere fact that we are writing on a messageboard about hockey says we are probably more intangled with hockey than the average fan.
So no, I don't lead by example, I pay money and eat popcorn and naturally have expectations like every other hockey fan.
Last edited by decadentia: 11-12-2010 at 12:14 PM.
For those of you who are *****ing, do you give 100% to your job every day? Never take an extended lunch? Do you ever show up late or sneak out early? Just wondering since you expect absolute perfection from one player so you must lead by example, right?
I also don't go home and take an extended nap in the afternoon or make $6.5mill/yr.
Above are all examples of what people think of Carter, a "35'ish goal scorer", which if he plays 82 games is around the 70pts mark, just under a ppg. I am going to find the scoring prediction thread because that is a much better example, a lot of people consider him an 80pt player which is equal to a ppg player. Even if he gets 70pts he is still in the Spezza range, $7mill cap hit.
I do not think spending $4mill on a 3rd pairing d-man, but Homer does and it seems to work and if it is going to help give Timonen a breather and another year of being able to play healthy hockey I invest in the defense because you are already contractually tied up in those guys. Carle has proven he can play as a top pairing and still put up some solid numbers.
70/82 is a 70 point scorer not an 80 point scorer. Also you keep throwing out claims like perennial 40 goal scorer but can't find a quote where someone said that about him.
I agree with most of what you quoted, that for the next 5 years I expect Carter to score between 150-200 goals which breaks down to 30-40 a season.
70/82 is a 70 point scorer not an 80 point scorer. Also you keep throwing out claims like perennial 40 goal scorer but can't find a quote where someone said that about him.
I agree with most of what you quoted, that for the next 5 years I expect Carter to score between 150-200 goals which breaks down to 30-40 a season.
See below, predictions just from a select few, but you can now see what people think of him:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextall89
I think if Carter stays healthy again he should get upwards of 40 goals.
Richards - 82 points in less then 82 games Carter - 80 points
Zherdev - 61 points
Giroux - 54 points
Briere - 50 points in roughly 65-70 games
JVR - 47 points
Hartnell - 45 points
Leino - 38 points in 60 games
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer
Since our roster is pretty much set, I thought I'd reopen this:
This is our most recent practice roster (with Pronger filled in because he should be back soon while Lappy remains out indefinitely).
These are pretty realistic: Carter(35-30-65pts), Richards(28-35-63pts), but Hartnell I would drop him a little bit, maybe more like 23-20-43pts.
This is going to be the big question going forward, will Giroux and JvR take it to the next level? For this team to be good with three lines they will need to take over at some point during the season for a stretch. JvR I would be happy if he hit the 45pt range(20-25-45) and raised his physical game.
Giroux, I want to compete with Carter and Richards for leader on the team, if he and Zherdev get some chemistry it could be a long season for opposing defenses and goalies......Giroux with prime PP minutes(24-40-64) and Zherdev(26-24-50pts).....but at some point on the balance of the team you cannot have Giroux and Zherdev scoring 30 goals apiece and then expect Briere-Leino-Hartnell to put up big numbers too, there has to be a give somewhere. One thing is for certain, Giroux needs to be at center, period
edit: that's also what we expect of him, given what he has shown in the past. given what Carter has done in the past it isn't unreasonable to assume he can score 40 goals. will he do it every damn year? likely not.
edit: that's also what we expect of him, given what he has shown in the past. given what Carter has done in the past it isn't unreasonable to assume he can score 40 goals. will he do it every damn year? likely not.
edit: that's also what we expect of him, given what he has shown in the past. given what Carter has done in the past it isn't unreasonable to assume he can score 40 goals. will he do it every damn year? likely not.
It is a freaking joke dude, the use of perennial goal scorer is a play on he has only done it once but people act like this kid has reached the 80pt(40 goals) mark several times in his career.
It is a freaking joke dude, the use of perennial goal scorer is a play on he has only done it once but people act like this kid has reached the 80pt(40 goals) mark several times in his career.
Kind of like how you say Claude Giroux makes his teamates better but can't give an example?
Many people feel that not only could the 6M that Carter is going to get be spent more efficiently to help the team (especially due to our depth at center), but also the assets we get in return for either a trade or high priced RFA offer sheet could help our team as well.
In a salary capped world we can't play fantasy hockey with our team. Sometimes tough decisions have to be made. This decision; however, does not seem like a tough one to me. When a guy has a track record of not only coming up small, but TWICE, in BACK TO BACK YEARS, absolutely CHOKING and LOSING us a series in the playoffs (the choke against MAF in '09 and the choke against Niemi in '10), then he DOES NOT warrant being your 3rd highest paid player (behind Briere and Timonen).
Noone doubts Carter's skill. In fact, I drafted him in my fantasy draft because he is a great REGULAR SEASON FANTASY PLAYER, but he is, unfortunately, not a cornerstone franchise player deserving over 1/9th of your team's cap.
Wow, Carter is a stud. He really must've slept with everyone's wife, sister or mother on these boards, the way he's hated for no reason.
When Datsyuk signed his huge extension, he was thought of as one of the biggest playoff chokers of all-time.
Yes, then he figured it out. Heck Carter is one of the best WJC scorers of all time, esp. in the gold medal games, then he won the AHL playoff scoring title en route to the Calder Cup, then played great in our run three years ago, got hurt vs. Pitt and played hurt vs. Chicago.... It's not like he's never come up huge in big games before, happens all the time when he's healthy.
Carter is one of the best young players in the game. Period. If we can lock him up, we should....
im not sure how that makes richards better. if anything thats just a testament to giroux's personal potential and playmaking ability.
Because Giroux has the ability to get other players to focus on him, respect the passing lanes, lay off him, plus he can spot the pass before it is even there. That is what great playmakers do, create chances for others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry44
Wow, Carter is a stud. He really must've slept with everyone's wife, sister or mother on these boards, the way he's hated for no reason.
See, this is the pink hat loving reaction. Because not everyone agrees that Carter is everything you do it is because he slept with my wife. I find this offensive and certainly breeches the conduct of the board which clearly states that this type of commentary should be considered libel. Yup, it cannot be that everyone does not see him for what you or someone else who is a jock sniffer does.
