HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

O'Byrne/Bournival trade revisited

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-11-2010, 10:45 PM
  #426
JeromeHP
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Just went back to see the draft thread.....Here's to myself, NHLDraftVideo, FelixD, Accident, Louis Houde amongst a few....it's redemption time people. At least, 4 people were dissapointed to see Bournival gone to the Avs. It's better late than nothing....we just finished our 2010 draft!!!! I had Bournival amongst my top 5 as soon as the 2nd round. As much as I always believed in O'Byrne, I just can't say I'm dissapointed. I did make the prediction that if he was available, the Habs would pick him. They did...just a couple of months late....
thanks im sure Timmins was a BIG reason behind this deal, and if we didnt trade up to get Tinordi, with our 2nd rd pick Bournival was our guy

__________________
Quebec Head Scout for HockeyProspect.com, QMJHL & NHL Draft
Follow me on Twitter: @Jerome_Berube

JeromeHP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 11:26 PM
  #427
Bad Natey
#feelthelove
 
Bad Natey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Habville
Country: Canada
Posts: 48,700
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhldraftvideo View Post
thanks im sure Timmins was a BIG reason behind this deal, and if we didnt trade up to get Tinordi, with our 2nd rd pick Bournival was our guy
I had Bournival rated in my top-50, but I didnt get a chance to catch the draft so I never even saw where he went.

Bad Natey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 11:42 PM
  #428
Rise from the Ashes
Price defies corsi
 
Rise from the Ashes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pointe-Claire, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,200
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Rise from the Ashes
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Why anyone would be disappointed in this trade blows my mind.

OB wasn't going to crack this line up, and players in the minors like Weber and Carle are better both ways, and Henry is solid as a tough stable 7 guy too...and Picard is there too.

This was a good trade, for a player scouts are saying is a good player and Team Canada is also looking at for the WJC.

This is a good deal for Montreal, it isn't like we don't have Tinordi, Bennett and others in the system...not to mention the next draft.

Best deal, I didn't think we would get anything more than a 6th round pick.
This is bang on. Either Colorado was very high on O'Byrne or Sherman is a fool. I dont think its the latter. Colorado gets a player with excellent shut down potential. However, that was not going to happen here. Also, Picard has been very calm and hasnt been extremely noticeable. Something O'Byrne was for the WRONG reasons.

We got a great young talent in return. This makes me very happy especially since Desharnais, White and Maxwell are not getting any younger. Who knows how long they will be around for. We have to re-stock our depth and we are in the process of doing that. I can see guy as a great 3rd line player for us in the future. A role highly overlooked by many hockey fans. The 3rd and 4th line players are the equivalent of bench players in basketball. If a basketball teams bench players are playing well. That team becomes a very tough team to play against. Good examples of this are the Boston Celtics and the LA Lakers. Look at Chicago, they had great bottom line depth and they won the cup. But now since they lost that depth, the team is not nearly as good.

So, what I am trying to say here is that O'Byrne contributed nothing to that depth. More is the fact that we have Weber, Carle and Nash in Hamilton. So, we lose nothing. O'byrne gets to play and we acquire a potential good 3rd line forward.

WIN

Rise from the Ashes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-11-2010, 11:43 PM
  #429
windycity
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Well duh
Posts: 3,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious HABit View Post
Colorado's biggest steal since the St.patrick trade.


Gauthier. Highway robbery....
lmao, I really hope you're being sarcastic

windycity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 12:10 AM
  #430
lou4gehrig
Registered User
 
lou4gehrig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,146
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
Latendresse, D'Agostini, Chipchura, S. Kostitsyn, O'Byrne... 5 guys under 26 who have been traded already with Martin as coach.
D'Ago (24) traded for Palushaj (21).
Fatendresse (23) traded for Pouliott (24)
Chipchura traded for a 4th rounder in 2011
SKost traded for Ellis and Boyd and somebody else all gone.
O'Byrne (26) traded for an 18 year old.

I'm not sure if you're implying Martin likes only older guys, but we've gotten younger in almost all of these trades.

lou4gehrig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 12:10 AM
  #431
Redux91
I do Three bullets.
 
Redux91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Montreal West Island
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,287
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Redux91 Send a message via MSN to Redux91
I will never forgive Mario Tremblay, Rejean Houle and Ronald Corey until the die i die for ruining a 9 year olds (me) hockey hopes and dreams the day his hero was traded for nothing ANd won the cup with them


but i HAVE forgiven colorado long before this trade today, the day they took theodore off of our hands, it was a godsend and a miracle.

Redux91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 07:18 AM
  #432
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,088
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lou4gehrig View Post
D'Ago (24) traded for Palushaj (21).
Fatendresse (23) traded for Pouliott (24)
Chipchura traded for a 4th rounder in 2011
SKost traded for Ellis and Boyd and somebody else all gone.
O'Byrne (26) traded for an 18 year old.

I'm not sure if you're implying Martin likes only older guys, but we've gotten younger in almost all of these trades.
Ummm.... Martin didn't make the trades, Gauthier did. Martin still seems to favour older players over younger ones.

HCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 07:19 AM
  #433
Tuggy
Registered User
 
Tuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Saint John
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,056
vCash: 1484
I can't believe the Habs won without O'Byrne last night.

Tuggy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 07:22 AM
  #434
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
 
Habs 4 Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Montreal
Country: Italy
Posts: 34,442
vCash: 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
I can't believe the Habs won without O'Byrne last night.
yup that big physical presence would have been so important

Good luck to Ryan, wish him nothing but the best.Back to back games tonight in Columbus and tomorrow he gets to play in a rivalry game in Detroit, see how he handles that

Habs 4 Life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 10:02 AM
  #435
Bullsmith
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,216
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
You do realize how many prospects fail to develop into their potential for any team right?
This is the key point. There's some guy on the radio right now harping on about how JM "just ruins players." In reality, JM has probably brought more players into the league than all but a handful of active coaches. Is he a dream to be a young player for? Absolutely not, he's very hard on them. Does he have a trail of high quality players failing to achieve the NHL and have great careers? Exactly the opposite. To this day people talk about how hard he was on Spezza. The fact is that Spezza's doing just fine and if anything he might have benefited from a bit more tough love, not less.

The simple fact is more prospects don't work out than do. That's why their called prospects. Before accusing JM of "ruining all his young players" how about looking at the enormous number of impact players he didn't ruin. For every Max Pacioretty who has a tough time, there's a PK Subban who thrives, or even a Yashin or a Redden who not only became stars under his tutelage, it turns out he made them look far better than they were without him.

I have a ton of complaints about JM, but to say he can't bring players into the league is just wrong on the facts.

Bullsmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 11:08 AM
  #436
neofury*
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Montreal, PQ
Country: Canada
Posts: 20,277
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Another crap move by our crap head office. Oh great, another under-sized forward (6' 183 lbs IS under-sized before anybody jumps in) ....whatever, it is getting too frustrating to follow this team anymore.
So go watch the Avs like most likely all your friends already do. Oh wait I forgot, as soon as Roy retired they all hopped back off the bandwagon and us HF people have been suffering ever since.

If you don't like the habs then piss off.

neofury* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 11:16 AM
  #437
Whitesnake
Steel your Habs away
 
Whitesnake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Lorraine, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 53,875
vCash: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhldraftvideo View Post
thanks im sure Timmins was a BIG reason behind this deal, and if we didnt trade up to get Tinordi, with our 2nd rd pick Bournival was our guy
Especially since Gauthier admitted not knowing Bournival that much but the fact that our scouts loved him very much.

Whitesnake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 11:25 AM
  #438
Bill McNeal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,657
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Especially since Gauthier admitted not knowing Bournival that much but the fact that our scouts loved him very much.
Timmins probably just needed a new spotter.


Bill McNeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 11:38 AM
  #439
Bacchus1
Registered User
 
Bacchus1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seoul, Korea
Posts: 913
vCash: 500
Looks like a good deal for us. Don't know why we have 18 pages of whining and responding to whining. We won't see much from this kid for at least 2-4 years. He may suffer sever concussions before that. He may develop in to a superstar.

At least we have a chance at a roster player, and O'Byrn has a chance to ply his trade elsewhere. Win-win.

Too many fools like to cry over perceived spilt milk.

Bacchus1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 11:44 AM
  #440
Talent Analyst
Registered User
 
Talent Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: 100th years
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,086
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hub City Hab View Post
Ummm.... Martin didn't make the trades, Gauthier did. Martin still seems to favour older players over younger ones.
Gauthier make trade with the recommandation of Martin. A GM will not make a trade without consulting his staff. See the Ryan O'Byrne trade. Gauthier didn't even know who were Bournival. His staff recommended this guy and Gauthier traded for him. I'm really sure Martin and Gauthier work together, because Martin was a GM not long ago.

Talent Analyst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 12:06 PM
  #441
Watsatheo
Error 503 Service
 
Watsatheo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 31,283
vCash: 883
Just realized the curse of #20 still lives. He didn't even last the calender year after switching to #20. Who will be the next victim?

Watsatheo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 12:21 PM
  #442
JeromeHP
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Just realized the curse of #20 still lives. He didn't even last the calender year after switching to #20. Who will be the next victim?
guess who's wearing #20 for the montreal juniors ?

JeromeHP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 12:34 PM
  #443
Newhabfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hub City Hab View Post
Ummm.... Martin didn't make the trades, Gauthier did. Martin still seems to favour older players over younger ones.
Martin is not in the business of develloping young talent. He is in the business of winning games.

And it is proven that you will win more with reliable veterans than with unexperienced rookies.

A coaches position is never solid. A streak of bad games and he could be out. He can't afford to devellop youngsters - that's what the Bulldogs are for.

Newhabfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 12:37 PM
  #444
Newhabfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 2,061
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nhldraftvideo View Post
guess who's wearing #20 for the montreal juniors ?
...And he probably won't be playing in that jersey anymore one year from now So the curse is still on.

BTW - who were the previous victims of this curse ? (too lazy to search).

Newhabfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 12:44 PM
  #445
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by terreur View Post
I don't know a lot on bournival, but I don't like getting rid of O'byrne... we will miss him in a 2-3 years i'm sure he'll become a very good defensive D.
No he will not. OB is a good guy, but he's thick as a brick. Dumb Dumb Dumb. Well done PG. You got something for him, good work.

Now on the negative? Another high draft fail. We are so thin on D prospects, it's scary.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 12:46 PM
  #446
expos4ever
Registered User
 
expos4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kirkland QC
Posts: 110
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
You do realize how many prospects fail to develop into their potential for any team right?
This is an important point that I feel is lost on the average NHL fan.
In SW sales we use a 'funnel' analogy that depicts the progression of the sales prospect 'pipeline', where there are hundreds of leads or 'suspects' at the 'entry' to the funnel, that over time (and sale qualifying/development process) narrow down to just a handful of 'closed' sales:



It is precisely the same concept in player dev, except the stages are the steps of the ladder in a players career (draft pick/junior/University/Intl/ECHL/AHL/NHL fill-in, etc...)

Bourneval is maybe in the 'prospect' part of the funnel (maybe a 25% chance of a career in the NHL) with many others, while a guy like Avtsin is somewhere in the middle ('Qualify' at 50%), and Eller is about to 'close' (90%)..

p.s. too many folks seem to be busy stressing about futures... Hey, look on the ice! you're missing a damn good team and show!!

expos4ever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 12:57 PM
  #447
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs13 View Post
Another crap move by our crap head office. Oh great, another under-sized forward (6' 183 lbs IS under-sized before anybody jumps in) ....whatever, it is getting too frustrating to follow this team anymore.
Oh really? How fascinating. Thanks for your witty and intelligent contribution to the discussion.

I'm going to tear your head off now:

Under sized? Wrong. The guy's 18 and 6 foot, 180.

Crap head office? What evidence do you have of this? PG has been GM for about one year. The Molsons have been in charge for about 10 months.

Really. Try to keep up and at least be fun. Or give us a good argument.


Last edited by bsl: 11-12-2010 at 01:04 PM.
bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 01:16 PM
  #448
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
Martin is not in the business of develloping young talent. He is in the business of winning games.

And it is proven that you will win more with reliable veterans than with unexperienced rookies.

A coaches position is never solid. A streak of bad games and he could be out. He can't afford to devellop youngsters - that's what the Bulldogs are for.
Intelligence at last. I'd hire you tomorrow.

bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 01:20 PM
  #449
NewBlood
Registered User
 
NewBlood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
...And he probably won't be playing in that jersey anymore one year from now So the curse is still on.

BTW - who were the previous victims of this curse ? (too lazy to search).
Zednik, Smolinski, Lang, Johnson, O'Byrne...

NewBlood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-12-2010, 01:32 PM
  #450
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,424
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by expos4ever View Post
This is an important point that I feel is lost on the average NHL fan.
In SW sales we use a 'funnel' analogy that depicts the progression of the sales prospect 'pipeline', where there are hundreds of leads or 'suspects' at the 'entry' to the funnel, that over time (and sale qualifying/development process) narrow down to just a handful of 'closed' sales:



It is precisely the same concept in player dev, except the stages are the steps of the ladder in a players career (draft pick/junior/University/Intl/ECHL/AHL/NHL fill-in, etc...)

Bourneval is maybe in the 'prospect' part of the funnel (maybe a 25% chance of a career in the NHL) with many others, while a guy like Avtsin is somewhere in the middle ('Qualify' at 50%), and Eller is about to 'close' (90%)..

p.s. too many folks seem to be busy stressing about futures... Hey, look on the ice! you're missing a damn good team and show!!
1. You're right, let's have fun watching now and enjoy the Habs.

2. I like your funnel model. Seems a good concept to ensure that sales and marketing don't bill hours on bad risks.

But geez man, get your boss, or if you're the boss, to change the first category name 'Suspects'

Terrible terminology. Really negative word. Someone I meet for the first time this year at a convention is a potential client, not a 'suspect'. He might come through this year, next year or in three years. Maybe never. But he's a human being who makes difficult choices for a large corporation. He is not a 'Suspect.'

Geez guy change the word. BAD choice.

If your office is using terms like 'suspect' to describe potential customers or clients, your potential customers or clients will know it. They are not stupid, and they will sense your disrespect, and your lazy generalizing. They will run a mile. Don't categorize people. Everyone is unique. The American trend of categorizing 'demographics' with derogatory terms really pisses people off, including your potential clients.

It is in fact the people at the top of the funnel that are most important, not the bottom. Go out and meet them. Make some real friends of them. Be honest. Be human. Be yourself. Treat them like human beings,not 'suspects'.

You'll have a hell of a lot more fun. And at the end of the day that's all that counts dude.


Last edited by bsl: 11-12-2010 at 01:55 PM.
bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:12 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.