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Carter close to signing 10-year deal (post #441 and #675); Leino update (# 675)

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Old
11-13-2010, 11:30 AM
  #776
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
What infuriates me about carter is that he is either on or off. He will either control the show out there all game, or you will see 15 high and wides. There is never any consistency with him. He doesn't bring the same game every night
For every high-and-wide there's at least 5 more that do hit the net.


Everyone complains that Carter never hits the net, which is truly impressive given that he's led the team in shots on net three years in a row.

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11-13-2010, 11:31 AM
  #777
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post


.


Cleveland doing PxP for Carolina?

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11-13-2010, 11:32 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
In general I agree with the cherry picking statement but I'd much rather have a team that's aggressive for the full 60. Guys start getting passive and getting into a shell leading to valuable forwards and defensemen having to block shots needlessly. Like GKJ said earlier, Paul Maurice was pretty classy about the beatdown.
Expect him to pull a Torts? Not sure Maurice avoiding making a spectacle of the situation is an indication that he's cool with it... and, frankly, that was really the only goal that was a bit over the top, IMO. Isn't like we were out running out top PP unit with a couple minutes left in the game to get one more goal (the **** the Pens have done in the past).

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11-13-2010, 11:34 AM
  #779
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
What infuriates me about carter is that he is either on or off. He will either control the show out there all game, or you will see 15 high and wides. There is never any consistency with him. He doesn't bring the same game every night
So... he's consistently inconsistent, huh?

And, from an offensive perspective, sure I agree with you to an extent... however, that statement can be said of pretty much everyone below the superstar level in the NHL.

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11-13-2010, 11:46 AM
  #780
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
I think we all know that Carter has popped a collar or two in his day.

Which is sad.
hahahahah, those 2 posts are pretty spot on

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11-13-2010, 11:50 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
For every high-and-wide there's at least 5 more that do hit the net.


Everyone complains that Carter never hits the net, which is truly impressive given that he's led the team in shots on net three years in a row.

Leading the team in shots is not that impressive when you throw the puck at the net from anywhere and everywhere as soon as it hits your stick.

But I'm thinking he has more high and wides than actual shots on net. Now that's impressive.

Does anyone actually keep a stat on shanks?

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11-13-2010, 11:53 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
So... he's consistently inconsistent, huh?

And, from an offensive perspective, sure I agree with you to an extent... however, that statement can be said of pretty much everyone below the superstar level in the NHL.
Stats wise maybe, but most players are at least able to keep doing what they are doing. For example, richards gets points through sheer determination, some nights he is giving his all, but points just don't come.

Carter however, will miss the net consistently, and float in all three zones, while other nights he will own the puck, and will get at least 4-5 scoring chances

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11-13-2010, 11:54 AM
  #783
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Leading the team in shots is not that impressive when you throw the puck at the net from anywhere and everywhere as soon as it hits your stick.

But I'm thinking he has more high and wides than actual shots on net. Now that's impressive.

Does anyone actually keep a stat on shanks?
Yep... and given how often Carter shoots, there's nothing out of sorts with his rate of missing the net. In fact, as I've noted around here before, his conversion rate when he releases a shot on net is only 0.5% below Ovechkin's over the last three years.

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11-13-2010, 11:56 AM
  #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Leading the team in shots is not that impressive when you throw the puck at the net from anywhere and everywhere as soon as it hits your stick.

But I'm thinking he has more high and wides than actual shots on net. Now that's impressive.

Does anyone actually keep a stat on shanks?
Carter is a goal scorer. Goal scorers shoot the puck.

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Old
11-13-2010, 11:58 AM
  #785
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Yep... and given how often Carter shoots, there's nothing out of sorts with his rate of missing the net. In fact, as I've noted around here before, his conversion rate when he releases a shot on net is only 0.5% below Ovechkin's over the last three years.
Considering Ovie scores at least 50 every year, I'm not sure your stat makes me feel any better.

So does he miss the net more often than he hits it?

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11-13-2010, 12:00 PM
  #786
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Carter is a goal scorer. Goal scorers shoot the puck.
That's all relative, isn't it? If, say, Chris Pronger took 500 shots (hits and misses) a season, don't you think he'd score at least 25 a year?

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11-13-2010, 12:01 PM
  #787
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Stats wise maybe, but most players are at least able to keep doing what they are doing. For example, richards gets points through sheer determination, some nights he is giving his all, but points just don't come.

Carter however, will miss the net consistently, and float in all three zones, while other nights he will own the puck, and will get at least 4-5 scoring chances
I think you're being unduly harsh to Carter. Even when he's not scoring, he's a diligent defensive player and does lots of little things well for the team.

I mean, lets present Richards' struggles in an unflattering light:

When Richards is having off nights its usually because he's trying way too hard, and doing stupid **** when he has an "easy" play that he could do (he's particularly guilty of this in the defensive zone at times). He spent the majority of the first half of last season forcing every single pass to Gagne (who couldn't score to save his life) and it neutered his line's effectiveness.

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11-13-2010, 12:03 PM
  #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Stats wise maybe, but most players are at least able to keep doing what they are doing. For example, richards gets points through sheer determination, some nights he is giving his all, but points just don't come.

Carter however, will miss the net consistently, and float in all three zones, while other nights he will own the puck,
and will get at least 4-5 scoring chances
This is what gets me so annoyed, Carter is either the best or 2nd best defensive forward on the team.

I mean, he carried Briere on his line for an entire freaking season.

There are parts of his offensive game you can criticize, but to say that he "floats" is just stupid.

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11-13-2010, 12:04 PM
  #789
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Considering Ovie scores at least 50 every year, I'm not sure your stat makes me feel any better.
It's not about feeling better or worse... if you shoot a lot, you're going to miss the net a lot. If you're not missing the net a lot, that means you're probably just shooting to the middle of the net, and you don't score goals shooting to the middle of the net.

Quote:
So does he miss the net more often than he hits it?
No, not even close. He has 63 SOG to 31 missed. Last year he had 316 SOG to 141 missed shots.

Ovechkin had 172 missed shots last year.

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11-13-2010, 12:08 PM
  #790
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Based on Pronger's rate last year... he'd have 22 goals if he put 500 shots towards net.

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11-13-2010, 12:09 PM
  #791
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I probably am being harsh on him in the defensive zone, but he really does float in the other two when the game is not going his way

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11-13-2010, 12:10 PM
  #792
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Based on Pronger's rate last year... he'd have 22 goals if he put 500 shots towards net.
There you go. So he would be considered a goal scorer as well, no?

I'm not arguing anything, not even sure what my point is really. I guess I want him to be more selective and accurate if he's going to shoot as much as he does? I don't know.

THanks for the shot stats, J. It's interesting stuff.

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11-13-2010, 12:23 PM
  #793
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
There you go. So he would be considered a goal scorer as well, no?

I'm not arguing anything, not even sure what my point is really. I guess I want him to be more selective and accurate if he's going to shoot as much as he does? I don't know.

THanks for the shot stats, J. It's interesting stuff.
Well, here's the thing... 90% of scoring is being able to put yourself in a position to put a good shot on net. Most guys in the NHL are simply not capable of putting 300 dangerous shots on net. So, for example, I note that Ovechkin and Carter have only 0.5% separating them on converting their shots towards net (that aren't blocked) into goals... why does Ovechkin score so many more goals? Because he takes a LOT more shots.

Ovechkin's best skill as an offensive hockey player is his ability to put a shot towards net... some of that is simply that he (similar to Carter) has a really heavy shot that can be dangerous from range. However, the hard shot isn't really the key to scoring a lot of goals for Ovechkin... it's the ability to get yourself into a position to put that shot on net in the first place.

Look at someone like Giroux. Giroux is rocking a 21.2% shooting rate right now (which will almost certainly fall), and on pace for 165 shots. The 150-200 range is about the max that we should expect from Giroux as far as SOG. Given that he has a very weak shot, if he tried to shoot the way Carter (or Ovechkin) does his % would be in the gutter (he's not going to be beating goalies clean from beyond the circles with much regularity at all).

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Old
11-13-2010, 12:26 PM
  #794
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
There you go. So he would be considered a goal scorer as well, no?

I'm not arguing anything, not even sure what my point is really. I guess I want him to be more selective and accurate if he's going to shoot as much as he does? I don't know.

THanks for the shot stats, J. It's interesting stuff.
But he doesn't get 500 shots times a year. And 22 goals for a forward with 500 shots also is not very good. You're talking 500 shots, Carter has only averaged 307 the last three years, while trying to incorporate the members of his line with his "passing" tomfoolery. Only Ovechkin can get to 500 shots, he's led the league in shots each year he's been in the league. If Carter got 500 shots on net, 40 goals would be a drop in the bucket.

People who get selective in shooting, don't shoot. People who don't shoot...don't score.

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11-13-2010, 12:27 PM
  #795
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The problem is with that jester is ovechkin doesn't always shoot from where carter does, due to his speed and strength, ovechkin actually gets into the circles to shoot the puck, So not only is he shooting a great deal, he is also getting really good scoring chances.

That is something that carter really needs to learn how to do. What pisses me off is that when he decides that he wants to play, he jumps into those scoring positions, and when he doesn't decide to play, he comes in and rips a wrister from the blueline.

I am by no means a carter hater, but he has been doing little things this year to piss me off. Someone needs to stop him from shooting wristers from the blue line, and tell him to come inside more, or set up the cycle. He has all the talent in the world, just needs to use it in the right area's.

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11-13-2010, 12:38 PM
  #796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
I am by no means a carter hater, but he has been doing little things this year to piss me off. Someone needs to stop him from shooting wristers from the blue line, and tell him to come inside more, or set up the cycle. He has all the talent in the world, just needs to use it in the right area's.
Wristers from the blue line? What the hell are you talking about?

Carter's wristers almost always come from the circles or the slot. And one thing he does that Ovechkin won't is go to the net and create traffic. They're actually not similar players, I don't understand we we're trying to compare them (other than the fact they both are primarily goal-scorers).

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11-13-2010, 12:53 PM
  #797
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Originally Posted by might2mash View Post
Wristers from the blue line? What the hell are you talking about?

Carter's wristers almost always come from the circles or the slot. And one thing he does that Ovechkin won't is go to the net and create traffic. They're actually not similar players, I don't understand we we're trying to compare them (other than the fact they both are primarily goal-scorers).
I am with you. I do not understand what the comparison is. If they were similar, Carter would be getting 8 mil a season after his 50 goal seasons.

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11-13-2010, 12:58 PM
  #798
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Well, here's the thing... 90% of scoring is being able to put yourself in a position to put a good shot on net.
Well that's a major issue that I have with Jeff. I don think he does that very well. How many times have we seen him takes blind shots from the goalline on the boards?! Granted he has a nice, heavy shot, and a nasty wrister, but it he was in better position to take better shots he would have more goals. Dude just fires from everywhere, holing for the best it seems.

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11-13-2010, 12:59 PM
  #799
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
The problem is with that jester is ovechkin doesn't always shoot from where carter does, due to his speed and strength, ovechkin actually gets into the circles to shoot the puck, So not only is he shooting a great deal, he is also getting really good scoring chances.

That is something that carter really needs to learn how to do. What pisses me off is that when he decides that he wants to play, he jumps into those scoring positions, and when he doesn't decide to play, he comes in and rips a wrister from the blueline.
False... everywhere Carter shoots from, Ovechkin shoots from with regularity. The actually important difference is that Carter has traditionally been at C or RW (now) and that has very significant ramifications for where they are starting from on the ice. If Carter is going to play wing, he needs to move to LW (similar to Ovechkin) so his stick will be facing the ice.

However... Ovechkin has put 1,342 SOG the last three years to Carter's 921. Ovechkin has AVERAGED 140 more SOG than Carter the last three years...

Ovechkin has also missed the net 591 times the last three years, to Carter's 364... so 75 more missed shots a year than Carter.

30.5% of Ovechkin's shots miss the net, and 28.3% of Carters shots miss the net.

Quote:
I am by no means a carter hater, but he has been doing little things this year to piss me off. Someone needs to stop him from shooting wristers from the blue line, and tell him to come inside more, or set up the cycle. He has all the talent in the world, just needs to use it in the right area's.
I don't know what you're watching... he does this all the time. The vast majority of his shot attempts come from just above the circle, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by might2mash View Post
Wristers from the blue line? What the hell are you talking about?

Carter's wristers almost always come from the circles or the slot. And one thing he does that Ovechkin won't is go to the net and create traffic. They're actually not similar players, I don't understand we we're trying to compare them (other than the fact they both are primarily goal-scorers).
...because statistically, they're quite similar as far as finishing their shots.

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11-13-2010, 01:00 PM
  #800
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Well that's a major issue that I have with Jeff. I don think he does that very well. How many times have we seen him takes blind shots from the goalline on the boards?! Granted he has a nice, heavy shot, and a nasty wrister, but it he was in better position to take better shots he would have more goals. Dude just fires from everywhere, holing for the best it seems.
When your shot is that good... you should. It's the same thing Ovechkin does, too.

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