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Carter close to signing 10-year deal (post #441 and #675); Leino update (# 675)

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Old
11-13-2010, 02:02 PM
  #801
healthyscratch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
But he doesn't get 500 shots times a year. And 22 goals for a forward with 500 shots also is not very good. You're talking 500 shots, Carter has only averaged 307 the last three years, while trying to incorporate the members of his line with his "passing" tomfoolery. Only Ovechkin can get to 500 shots, he's led the league in shots each year he's been in the league. If Carter got 500 shots on net, 40 goals would be a drop in the bucket.

People who get selective in shooting, don't shoot. People who don't shoot...don't score.
Thats exactly my point, the more shots you take the more you will score. If you read my post I said shots including hits and misses. Jester backed it up with 450 total shots at the net for Carter. And if Pronger took that many he would have 22 goals. More shots=more goals. Jeff leads the team in shots, so naturally he would lead the team is goals.

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11-13-2010, 02:05 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
I am with you. I do not understand what the comparison is. If they were similar, Carter would be getting 8 mil a season after his 50 goal seasons.
I'm not sure why this is difficult.

When Ovechkin or Carter decide to shoot the puck, the results are EXTREMELY similar. If Carter was as good at getting into a position to shoot as Ovechkin, he would be an 8M player.

Where they are different is how they get to that position to take the shot on net... Ovechkin is SIGNIFICANTLY better at that than Carter (and anyone else in the league). There's a reason Ovechkin blows away the league in shots attempted the last few years.

The ability to shoot the puck is a skill independent of your ability to get to the spot to shoot.

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11-13-2010, 02:07 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Thats exactly my point, the more shots you take the more you will score. If you read my post I said shots including hits and misses. Jester backed it up with 450 total shots at the net for Carter. And if Pronger took that many he would have 22 goals. More shots=more goals. Jeff leads the team in shots, so naturally he would lead the team is goals.
Yes, but you're ignoring the fact that the mere ability to get that many shots is a skill in itself.

That's like saying, "Ovechkin isn't all that great, he just shoots a lot." No, he's GREAT and that's why he CAN shoot a lot.

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11-13-2010, 02:09 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Thats exactly my point, the more shots you take the more you will score. If you read my post I said shots including hits and misses. Jester backed it up with 450 total shots at the net for Carter. And if Pronger took that many he would have 22 goals. More shots=more goals. Jeff leads the team in shots, so naturally he would lead the team is goals.
And that happens because Carter does a good job of creating chances for himself. I grew up hearing Flyers fans complain about how no one would ever shoot, and now there is Jeff Carter and people think that doesn't take good enough shots.

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11-13-2010, 02:33 PM
  #805
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Keep in mind that Ovie never kills penalties and he stays on the ice for a long time during the PP. More time on the ice means more chances.

Carter is pretty much on the 2nd PP unit and 2nd PK unit. So Ovie is bound to shoot more because he's not good enough to use in defensive situations which allows him more time on offence.
Also, Carter and other snipers shoot high and wide because almost every goalie plays in the butterfly position so the top corners are exposed. That's playing the percentages.

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11-13-2010, 02:40 PM
  #806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm not sure why this is difficult.

When Ovechkin or Carter decide to shoot the puck, the results are EXTREMELY similar. If Carter was as good at getting into a position to shoot as Ovechkin, he would be an 8M player.

Where they are different is how they get to that position to take the shot on net... Ovechkin is SIGNIFICANTLY better at that than Carter (and anyone else in the league). There's a reason Ovechkin blows away the league in shots attempted the last few years.

The ability to shoot the puck is a skill independent of your ability to get to the spot to shoot.
So what your saying is Ovechkin is better in every way on offense and gets in far better and different positions than Jeff Carter. So the point is that Carter and Ovechkin have the same accuracy of their shots? Is that what we are trying to establish? Seems kinda silly...

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Old
11-13-2010, 02:41 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by Woof View Post
Keep in mind that Ovie never kills penalties and he stays on the ice for a long time during the PP. More time on the ice means more chances.

Carter is pretty much on the 2nd PP unit and 2nd PK unit. So Ovie is bound to shoot more because he's not good enough to use in defensive situations which allows him more time on offence.
Also, Carter and other snipers shoot high and wide because almost every goalie plays in the butterfly position so the top corners are exposed. That's playing the percentages.
Yeah, this can't be said enough... it be far more irritating if Carter was chest sniping every glorious chance.

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Old
11-13-2010, 02:44 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by DrHamburg View Post
So what your saying is Ovechkin is better in every way on offense and gets in far better and different positions than Jeff Carter. So the point is that Carter and Ovechkin have the same accuracy of their shots? Is that what we are trying to establish? Seems kinda silly...
Not really when everyone is arguing that Carter shoots "too much" from "bad angles" and misses the net "too much."

Their offensive efficiency in shooting the puck the last three years is almost identical. 0.5% over 450 shots is 2.25 goals.

And, no, Ovechkin doesn't get in "far better" and "different positions" than Carter. He shoots from all the places Carter does and then some. He also has other skills that take him down lower where he picks up even MORE shots than Carter.

For all of Ovechkin's supposed superiority, it translates to 0.5% greater shooting efficiency.

If you think Carter shoots too much, then you think Ovechkin shoots too much. If you don't, you're a hypocrite.

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11-13-2010, 02:52 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
And, no, Ovechkin doesn't get in "far better" and "different positions" than Carter. He shoots from all the places Carter does and then some.

He also has other skills that take him down lower where he picks up even MORE shots than Carter.
First point, you obviously just look at stats and not how they play, secondly you completly contradict yourself. So Carter plays down lower now?

Ovechkin plays a completly different game to Carter. He hustles on the forecheck and creates so many scoring opertunities from forcing mistakes from defenseman. I have seen him so many times loop the net and fire from close circles.

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Old
11-13-2010, 02:58 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
First point, you obviously just look at stats and not how they play, secondly you completly contradict yourself. So Carter plays down lower now?

Ovechkin plays a completly different game to Carter. He hustles on the forecheck and creates so many scoring opertunities from forcing mistakes from defenseman. I have seen him so many times loop the net and fire from close circles.
Great... he also rips shots from the blue line... the boards... the circles... hell, he's probably taken some from behind the goal line. Ovechkin is a much better player than Carter, but they are quite similar in where they choose to shoot from (everywhere). Thus how Ovechkin gets his absurd shot totals.

If Ovechkin was taking so many more "high quality" chance shots, don't you think it would have translated to a higher scoring rate off his shot than that in comparison to Carter? Or are you saying Carter has a much better shot than Ovechkin, and thus can still convert at a similar rate to Ovechkin despite his poor shot selection?

Honestly, I just think you're biased against Carter based on the absurdly harsh critique of one of our best two-way players, but that's just me... and here you are suggesting that Ovechkin is a crappy finisher in comparison to Carter, which is interesting.

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:05 PM
  #811
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I like Jeff Carter.

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:10 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I'm not sure why this is difficult.

When Ovechkin or Carter decide to shoot the puck, the results are EXTREMELY similar. If Carter was as good at getting into a position to shoot as Ovechkin, he would be an 8M player.

Where they are different is how they get to that position to take the shot on net... Ovechkin is SIGNIFICANTLY better at that than Carter (and anyone else in the league). There's a reason Ovechkin blows away the league in shots attempted the last few years.

The ability to shoot the puck is a skill independent of your ability to get to the spot to shoot.
The reason Ovechkin gets more shot than Jeff Carter is he's on the ice more and in better situations. Look at last season.

OVECHKIN
368 shots
TOTAL TOI PP: 364:04
TOTAL TOI PK: 4:14
TOTAL TOI ES: 1201:07

CARTER
319 shots
TOTAL TOI PP: 229:03
TOTAL TOI PK: 132:20
TOTAL TOI ES: 1067:03

OVERALL: So Carter gets a shot about every 4.5 minutes of ice time. Ovechkin gets a shot about every 4.3 minutes of ice time. The difference is that Ovechkin has more ice time on the PP and at ES and Carter spends more time on the PK. I'd be willing to bet if you gave Carter Ovechkin's ice time distribution he would have been well over 400 shots.

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:16 PM
  #813
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Quote:
TSNBobMcKenzie Jeff Carter has agreed to terms on an 11-year, $58 million contract extension with the Philadelphia Flyers. AAV of $5.27M.
Let the tears begin.

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:17 PM
  #814
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TSNBobMcKenzie Jeff Carter has agreed to terms on an 11-year, $58 million contract extension with the Philadelphia Flyers. AAV of $5.27M.

Let the tears begin.
That's crazy lol

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:18 PM
  #815
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TSNBobMcKenzie Jeff Carter has agreed to terms on an 11-year, $58 million contract extension with the Philadelphia Flyers. AAV of $5.27M.

Let the tears begin.
Tears of joy. WOOHOO!

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:18 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
TSNBobMcKenzie Jeff Carter has agreed to terms on an 11-year, $58 million contract extension with the Philadelphia Flyers. AAV of $5.27M.

Let the tears begin.
Holy ****, Homer is on a roll! What an amazing cap number.

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:20 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
TSNBobMcKenzie Jeff Carter has agreed to terms on an 11-year, $58 million contract extension with the Philadelphia Flyers. AAV of $5.27M.

Let the tears begin.
Winner winner!

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11-13-2010, 03:20 PM
  #818
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If that is the cap number...that's ****ing awesome.

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11-13-2010, 03:21 PM
  #819
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Holy crap. I just pee'd myself. Awesome deal.

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:21 PM
  #820
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5.27?

That's it?

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:22 PM
  #821
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**** ya, *****, ****, happy **** sticks!!!!

Woo Hoo.... Homer is impressing me.

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11-13-2010, 03:22 PM
  #822
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Homer's done good.

Even every Crater hater has to be thrilled with a 5.27 cap hit.

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11-13-2010, 03:22 PM
  #823
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Jeff Carter has agreed to terms on an 11-year, $58 million contract extension with the Philadelphia Flyers. AAV of $5.27M.


Great deal for the flyers.

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:22 PM
  #824
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Hold on, let's make a new thread. This one is guarenteed to go over the limit now, and the deal is done.

New thread is here -- http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=841410


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 11-13-2010 at 04:36 PM.
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