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Old
11-13-2010, 12:54 PM
  #1
CoRD
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Question Of The Year

Do we trade Kipper? (If we were to completely blow it up)

I mentioned it last night to some buddies and they nearly crucified me. But think about it - if we didn't have Kipper, we'd be a last place team... right? He's THAT good of a goalie, that as long as we have him, we'll be competitive/middle of the pack. If we want a true culture change, perhaps relying on good ol Kipper to bail us out needs to change. Also, Kipper holds the most value out of all of our players. It would absolutely break my heart to see Kipper traded after all he has done for us, but I think if done properly* it could do wonders for this team in the future. Also I think he deserves better. Just a thought, what do you think?

* By done properly I mean NOT by Daryl Sutter. If we rebuild I want someone like Jim Nill to step in. Sorry Sutter you've had your chance.

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11-13-2010, 01:03 PM
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Yes, without a doubt. Kipper holds a ton of value and it's not like he'll still be a no.1 goalie once this team is ready to compete again (if they do rebuild, that is). Trade anyone who isn't going to help us win in 5 years or so.

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Old
11-13-2010, 01:26 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoRD View Post
Do we trade Kipper? (If we were to completely blow it up)
Yes... if you want to completely rebuild you don't want a goaltender than can steal games for you just yet

if I were to rebuild I would use the following 2 year strategy...

Step 1: Trade Iginla, Bouwmeester, Kiprusoff & Regehr by Jan. 1st... the returns would have to be picks, prospects, good young players (25 and under) and salary dumps (with no more than 1 full year remaining on their contract)

Step 2: Trade all impending UFAs (including the salary dumps acquired in step 1) at the deadline for picks and salary dumps that are 2012 UFAs

Step 3: Trade up in the draft... each of Iginla, Bouwmeester, Kiprusoff and Regehr could each land a 1st round pick so trading up to the top 5 could be very possible

Step 4: Sign UFAs aged 26-28 to fill the roster to 1 and 2 year contracts... also sign a solid veteran player to captain the team for the next 2-3 years

Step 5: Repeat Step 2 with impending 2012 UFAs, trading them for draft picks

Step 6: Trade up in draft

Step 7: Repeat step 4

following that I would focus on playing and developing the young players to try and make a contender... trading for and signing players no older than 28

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Old
11-13-2010, 01:29 PM
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Being the huge Kipper fan that I am and seeing how much of a positive effect he has had on this franchise (arguably on par with Iggy's contributions), it would kill me to see him go. However, it is crucial that he is traded when we go into a rebuild because he is our best commodity. He has the ability to take a borderline contender and make them a bonefide one almost instantly, something which even Iggy can't do.

And I also agree that the first move when rebuilding is getting rid of the Sutters, starting with Darryl. I don't trust that Darryl has the right sense to make good trades regarding a rebuild. Jim Nill (currently part of Detroit if I'm not mistaken?) might be a good choice. I'm not up to date with the management side of the game. All I know is that the culture of this team has to change and that starts with getting rid of the Sutter clan.

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Old
11-13-2010, 01:41 PM
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I love Kipper but you already know my opinon of this question CoRD. I'm pushing for a full rebuild starting late December/early January if we're clearly out of it by then. But please give me your opinion of the following trade proposal....

Iginla, Kipper and Wahl to Kings for Bernier, Schenn, Simmonds and a 1st.

I'm having trouble deciding if this is close to fair value for both sides.

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Old
11-13-2010, 01:49 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flames89 View Post
I love Kipper but you already know my opinon of this question CoRD. I'm pushing for a full rebuild starting late December/early January if we're clearly out of it by then. But please give me your opinion of the following trade proposal....

Iginla, Kipper and Wahl to Kings for Bernier, Schenn, Simmonds and a 1st.

I'm having trouble deciding if this is close to fair value for both sides.
Wow that's a tough one.

The Kings don't want to part with Simmonds but with Kipper in there how can they say no? For some reason I feel like they should throw another 1st in there... maybe a conditional 1st rounder 2012?

I do feel like were not getting enough back that may be because I don't know the true potential/ceilings of Schenn or Bernier.

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11-13-2010, 01:56 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoRD View Post
Wow that's a tough one.

The Kings don't want to part with Simmonds but with Kipper in there how can they say no? For some reason I feel like they should throw another 1st in there... maybe a conditional 1st rounder 2012?

I do feel like were not getting enough back that may be because I don't know the true potential/ceilings of Schenn or Bernier.
Cheers. That's likely why I'm having trouble with it too. I believe Bernier will definitely be a legit #1 goalie, which to me is a must to get back in any Kipper deal. Schenn, at the very least is a guy who the Leafs would love to have. I figure he'll be a really good number 2 center for a long time. Don't think he'll be a legit #1.

Thanks for your input, either way.

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Old
11-13-2010, 02:27 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flames89 View Post
I love Kipper but you already know my opinon of this question CoRD. I'm pushing for a full rebuild starting late December/early January if we're clearly out of it by then. But please give me your opinion of the following trade proposal....

Iginla, Kipper and Wahl to Kings for Bernier, Schenn, Simmonds and a 1st.

I'm having trouble deciding if this is close to fair value for both sides.
that proposal will not happen... with how well Quick is playing and Bernier's potential the Kings would have no interest in Kiprusoff... I would also hold onto Wahl no sense in moving prospects with potential at this point in time...

IMO the Kings, Sabres, Canadiens, Blues & Lightning will be the most likely to try and nab Iginla...

I also believe the Senators, Blackhawks, Flyers, Lightning & Capitals would be the most likely to try and make a run at Kiprusoff

when if comes to Regehr I think there would be many teams involved as his cap hit makes him much more attainable

However I think there is absolutely zero chance of any 2 of Kipper, Iggy, Reggie and Bouw going in the same trade

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Old
11-13-2010, 02:59 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
IMO the Kings, Sabres, Canadiens, Blues & Lightning will be the most likely to try and nab Iginla...

I also believe the Senators, Blackhawks, Flyers, Lightning & Capitals would be the most likely to try and make a run at Kiprusoff
Taking those suggestions for teams, here are some trade proposals.

Iginla (7M)
Morrison (750k)
John Armstrong
to
Montreal
for
Plecanek (5M)
3rd round pick 2011

Flames get a top line centreman, Habs get a top 9 centre in return to fill the gap as well as Iginla that will give them a big top line power forward goal scorer. They also get a gritty 3rd/4th line checking centre prospect to fill out their pool.

Kipper (5.8M, 4yrs)
to
Philly
for
Carter (5.5M, RFA 2011)

With Richards as the Captain, Giroux as the up and comer and Briere sign long term for big money Carter is kinda the man out at centre. Althought Philly might want to go with Bobrovsky and take a chance.

G Kipper (5.8M)
D Sarich (3.6M)
F Moss (1.3M)
to
Tampa Bay
for
LW Malone (4.5M)
RW Harju (ELC)
G Dustin Tokarski (ELC)
3rd round pick 2011

Tampa gets a legit starting goaltender and a top 4 defenseman their are familiar with to help the GA as well as a top 9 forward with size. Calgary gets a blue chip goaltending prospect, a big young goal scoring winger as well as Malone who will bring size and grit to the team. Tampa also gets rid of a bad contract that is long term but take back a smaller bad contract on a shorter term.

Kipper (5.8M)
Tanguay (1.7M)
to
Washington
for
Fleishmann (2.6M)
Varlamov (ELC)
2nd round pick 2011

Calgary gets a young NHL goaltender and a young top 6 forward as well as a pick. Washington gets the goaltending they need to go deep in the playoffs. They also get a top 6 forward to temp. replace Fleishmann. This would be assuming that Tanguay is not playing well enough to stay or is not in the future of this franchise.


Most of my ideas are deadline moves to CAP space is not the biggest issue.

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:02 PM
  #10
Stewie Griffin
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Go big or go home. None of this half-assed rebuild that the team did in the late 90's. If it's going to be done, it's got to be done like Lunatik suggests and dump everyone over the age of ___ for draft picks & prospects. Basically just gut the team, and suck (like bottom three team suck) for a year. Still have to meet the cap floor but its possible.

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:09 PM
  #11
flames123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Go big or go home. None of this half-assed rebuild that the team did in the late 90's. If it's going to be done, it's got to be done like Lunatik suggests and dump everyone over the age of ___ for draft picks & prospects. Basically just gut the team, and suck (like bottom three team suck) for a year. Still have to meet the cap floor but its possible.
If we really wanted to suck we could fill up the CAP floor with guys like Souray, Jeff Finger, Chris Drury ect. Then we could really suck. Get a 1st overall selection and several other 1st rounders.

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:09 PM
  #12
CoRD
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@flames123 Not one 1st round pick out of all that? Come on son!!!!

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:10 PM
  #13
flames123
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@flames123 Not one 1st round pick out of all that? Come on son!!!!
lol, I was thinking more short term (2-3 years)

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Old
11-13-2010, 03:12 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by flames123 View Post
lol, I was thinking more short term (2-3 years)
Yea but we need those 1st rounders. If Kessel can get 2, then Iggy, Kipper and Regehr should AT LEAST be able to get 2 or 3.

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Old
11-13-2010, 04:06 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flames123 View Post
Taking those suggestions for teams, here are some trade proposals.

Iginla (7M)
Morrison (750k)
John Armstrong
to
Montreal
for
Plecanek (5M)
3rd round pick 2011

Flames get a top line centreman, Habs get a top 9 centre in return to fill the gap as well as Iginla that will give them a big top line power forward goal scorer. They also get a gritty 3rd/4th line checking centre prospect to fill out their pool.

Kipper (5.8M, 4yrs)
to
Philly
for
Carter (5.5M, RFA 2011)

With Richards as the Captain, Giroux as the up and comer and Briere sign long term for big money Carter is kinda the man out at centre. Althought Philly might want to go with Bobrovsky and take a chance.

G Kipper (5.8M)
D Sarich (3.6M)
F Moss (1.3M)
to
Tampa Bay
for
LW Malone (4.5M)
RW Harju (ELC)
G Dustin Tokarski (ELC)
3rd round pick 2011

Tampa gets a legit starting goaltender and a top 4 defenseman their are familiar with to help the GA as well as a top 9 forward with size. Calgary gets a blue chip goaltending prospect, a big young goal scoring winger as well as Malone who will bring size and grit to the team. Tampa also gets rid of a bad contract that is long term but take back a smaller bad contract on a shorter term.

Kipper (5.8M)
Tanguay (1.7M)
to
Washington
for
Fleishmann (2.6M)
Varlamov (ELC)
2nd round pick 2011

Calgary gets a young NHL goaltender and a young top 6 forward as well as a pick. Washington gets the goaltending they need to go deep in the playoffs. They also get a top 6 forward to temp. replace Fleishmann. This would be assuming that Tanguay is not playing well enough to stay or is not in the future of this franchise.


Most of my ideas are deadline moves to CAP space is not the biggest issue.
I wouldn't touch a single one of those trades

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
Go big or go home. None of this half-assed rebuild that the team did in the late 90's. If it's going to be done, it's got to be done like Lunatik suggests and dump everyone over the age of ___ for draft picks & prospects. Basically just gut the team, and suck (like bottom three team suck) for a year. Still have to meet the cap floor but its possible.
to meet the cap floor just 'sell' cap space for picks...

and before anyone misunderstands and says you can't sell/trade cap space I am fully aware of that... by 'sell' I mean takeon bad contracts with a year or 2 left for draft picks... because if we do a full rebuild we will have a ton of cap space... we could make deals like...

to Calgary: Bryce Salvador, Brian Rolston,2nd in 2011
to New Jersey: 7th in 2011

the Devils fix their cap problems and we get a 2nd rounder to help them

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Old
11-13-2010, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
that proposal will not happen... with how well Quick is playing and Bernier's potential the Kings would have no interest in Kiprusoff... I would also hold onto Wahl no sense in moving prospects with potential at this point in time...

IMO the Kings, Sabres, Canadiens, Blues & Lightning will be the most likely to try and nab Iginla...

I also believe the Senators, Blackhawks, Flyers, Lightning & Capitals would be the most likely to try and make a run at Kiprusoff

when if comes to Regehr I think there would be many teams involved as his cap hit makes him much more attainable

However I think there is absolutely zero chance of any 2 of Kipper, Iggy, Reggie and Bouw going in the same trade
It might be a good time to remind you that there is a salary cap in the NHL.

The Capitals, Hawks and Flyers are so close to the cap they can kiss it. None are going to take any contract that isn't expiring.

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Old
11-13-2010, 08:17 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flames123 View Post
Taking those suggestions for teams, here are some trade proposals.

Iginla (7M)
Morrison (750k)
John Armstrong
to
Montreal
for
Plecanek (5M)
3rd round pick 2011

Flames get a top line centreman, Habs get a top 9 centre in return to fill the gap as well as Iginla that will give them a big top line power forward goal scorer. They also get a gritty 3rd/4th line checking centre prospect to fill out their pool.

Kipper (5.8M, 4yrs)
to
Philly
for
Carter (5.5M, RFA 2011)

With Richards as the Captain, Giroux as the up and comer and Briere sign long term for big money Carter is kinda the man out at centre. Althought Philly might want to go with Bobrovsky and take a chance.

G Kipper (5.8M)
D Sarich (3.6M)
F Moss (1.3M)
to
Tampa Bay
for
LW Malone (4.5M)
RW Harju (ELC)
G Dustin Tokarski (ELC)
3rd round pick 2011

Tampa gets a legit starting goaltender and a top 4 defenseman their are familiar with to help the GA as well as a top 9 forward with size. Calgary gets a blue chip goaltending prospect, a big young goal scoring winger as well as Malone who will bring size and grit to the team. Tampa also gets rid of a bad contract that is long term but take back a smaller bad contract on a shorter term.

Kipper (5.8M)
Tanguay (1.7M)
to
Washington
for
Fleishmann (2.6M)
Varlamov (ELC)
2nd round pick 2011

Calgary gets a young NHL goaltender and a young top 6 forward as well as a pick. Washington gets the goaltending they need to go deep in the playoffs. They also get a top 6 forward to temp. replace Fleishmann. This would be assuming that Tanguay is not playing well enough to stay or is not in the future of this franchise.


Most of my ideas are deadline moves to CAP space is not the biggest issue.
Every single one of these trades are god aweful, if that was the return for Iggy i would cry for weeks, Calgary would also turn what could be a 4 year rebuild into 8!

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Old
11-13-2010, 08:17 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
to meet the cap floor just 'sell' cap space for picks...

and before anyone misunderstands and says you can't sell/trade cap space I am fully aware of that... by 'sell' I mean takeon bad contracts with a year or 2 left for draft picks... because if we do a full rebuild we will have a ton of cap space... we could make deals like...

to Calgary: Bryce Salvador, Brian Rolston,2nd in 2011
to New Jersey: 7th in 2011

the Devils fix their cap problems and we get a 2nd rounder to help them
I've always been a fan of that idea. The problem for a lot of teams stuck in rebuild is that they are budget teams. We, as a cap-team, would have that 'luxury.' I'd take on contracts like Chris Drury for multiple 2nd/3rd round picks. Of course, I am not the owner, and it wouldn't be my money so I guess it's easier for me to say.

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Old
11-13-2010, 08:22 PM
  #19
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Yea but we need those 1st rounders. If Kessel can get 2, then Iggy, Kipper and Regehr should AT LEAST be able to get 2 or 3.
If we're trading all three of those I count 4 first rounders. Plus our own. Plus any we acquire by packaging other picks. *drools*

If nothing else, it would be an incredibly exciting 2-3 years as our first rounders developed.

Potential is fun and exciting to talk about, even if the reality from that potential isn't as good.

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Old
11-13-2010, 08:27 PM
  #20
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Kipper and Iggy for Stamkos.

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Old
11-13-2010, 09:10 PM
  #21
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Kipper and Iggy for Stamkos.
Calgary needs to add a 2nd.

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