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D Ryan Murphy - Kitchener Rangers, OHL (2011, 12th overall, Carolina)

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Old
11-13-2010, 10:15 PM
  #151
Nullus Reverentia
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Originally Posted by Alberta tough View Post
First I just want to say that I am not trying to pick on you. Its just that I hate when people post on players that they have not seen like you said you have not seen him this year.
IMOP he is on par with what he should be doing. The Rebel offence runs through him. His vision is amazing thus the assist to goal ratio (although I thought he would have more then 5 goals this year). He was the leading goal scorer for Canada at the U18 this summer so that should say that he can score as well. Most important though he is faster, stronger and battles harder everything you want a prospect to improve on. I have watched him abunch last year and 3 times so far this year.
I'm just saying this was all expected improvement.

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Old
11-13-2010, 10:16 PM
  #152
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Grapes has officially popped his top.

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Old
11-13-2010, 10:17 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by tiguy10 View Post
don cherry also said the Laffs were going to be a playoff team
Don't be an *******.

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Old
11-13-2010, 10:52 PM
  #154
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Imo, he goes 5-6, though I am leaning towards 5...size plays a huge factor, so regardless of the fact most people on here haven't seen him, scouts are projecting these guys 5+ years down the road...guys like Larsson and Couturier who have the size and skill are just more likely to be sought after by scouts

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11-13-2010, 10:57 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
Imo, he goes 5-6, though I am leaning towards 5...size plays a huge factor, so regardless of the fact most people on here haven't seen him, scouts are projecting these guys 5+ years down the road...guys like Larsson and Couturier who have the size and skill are just more likely to be sought after by scouts
and 5 years down the road in all likelyhood talent wins out over size.

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Old
11-13-2010, 11:05 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Ward Cornell View Post
and 5 years down the road in all likelyhood talent wins out over size.
True, but you have to be absolutely certain that a guy like Murphy is 100% the better talent over a guy like Larsson, because Larsson has all the tools to be a potential #1, including both size AND talent

And it's pretty clear, at least in the eyes of the scouts, that there is no way you can make such a claim

Also, I think a lot of people are putting for too much emphasis solely on what these kids have down in the first 20 games this year...it is more about what well they project to translate to the next level, and while this year will have a massive impact. scouts will analyze every little detail and weakness when determining player projections....in Duchene's draft year, in the last week before the draft, guys like Bobby Mack and other insiders suggested Duchene could potentially go #1 and was challenging both Hedman and JT...that was clearly not based on their stats during the year, because IIRC Duchene had like 75 points in his draft year, while Tavares had already put together 2 seasons of well over 100 points and had like 20 points more than Duchene in their draft year in even less games...and he made the WJC team and played well as well...obviously lots of other factors are involved, but I guess the point is there is A LOT elements that scouts use above and beyond the stat sheet for their draft years

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11-13-2010, 11:16 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
but I guess the point is there is A LOT elements that scouts use above and beyond the stat sheet for their draft years
^^^Without a doubt and sometimes it's not what happens on the ice.
Also character and the will to win plays a huge role!
Example from last year: Jeff Skinner went from 10 to 12th range to No.7 because of his awesome playoffs and some are now saying he should've been higher.

I think we know the cast of characters who will be in the top 5....but not the order!
It wouldn't surprise me to see anyone of the 5 go as 1.
Perhaps the scouts and teams are interested to see how players respond to pressure in wanting to be No.1?


Last edited by Ward Cornell: 11-13-2010 at 11:23 PM.
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Old
11-13-2010, 11:27 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Ward Cornell View Post
^^^Without a doubt and sometimes it's not what happens on the ice.
Also character and the will to win plays a huge role!
Example from last year: Jeff Skinner went from 10 to 12th range to No.7 because of his awesome playoffs and some are now saying he should've been higher.

I think we know the cast of characters who will be in the top 5....but not the order!
It wouldn't surprise me to see anyone of the 5 go as 1.
Perhaps the scouts and teams are interested to see how players respond to pressure in wanting to be No.1?
Why the edit? Did you write something mean then have a change of heart? jk

Ya, and with Skinner, one of the midterm rankings had him at like 35 or something...I was a big backer of Skinner and thought he would be a major steal outside of the top 15...unfortunately for me, he tore up the last half and the playoffs and took away my 5 year down the road "steal" prediction lol

My top 5 right now is this:

Couturier
Larsson
RNH
Landeskog
Murphy

I think scouts seem to love Landeskog, mostly for the reasons you stated...kid is a great captain in the room and on the ice, he can pass and put the puck in the net, and can be physical and play with passion...all characteristics scouts tend to fall in love with, i.e. the complete package type of player

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Old
11-14-2010, 12:09 AM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberta tough View Post
First I just want to say that I am not trying to pick on you. Its just that I hate when people post on players that they have not seen like you said you have not seen him this year.IMOP he is on par with what he should be doing. The Rebel offence runs through him. His vision is amazing thus the assist to goal ratio (although I thought he would have more then 5 goals this year). He was the leading goal scorer for Canada at the U18 this summer so that should say that he can score as well. Most important though he is faster, stronger and battles harder everything you want a prospect to improve on. I have watched him abunch last year and 3 times so far this year.
I agree....
It is bizarre as heck to see all the people on here offer up rankings, scouting reports etc. on players that they A) have never seen B) have only seen on tv/web C) have only seen live a few times.
You cannot scout properly or make player judgements by reading stats or watching a player a few times on the tube.
This kind of "scouting" "ranking" is of no valu.
If it did no teams would employ scouting departments and fly people all over the globe costing huge $.

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Old
11-14-2010, 12:14 AM
  #160
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I don't see a 5'10" 165 lbs defender playing well in the OHL getting picked over a 6'4" 195 lbs center with 33 points in 23 games or a 6'3" 220 lbs defender who has been playing against men for two years...

Sorry CherBear... not happenin'.

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Old
11-14-2010, 12:19 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Aittokallio View Post
I don't see a 5'10" 165 lbs defender playing well in the OHL getting picked over a 6'4" 195 lbs center with 33 points in 23 games or a 6'3" 220 lbs defender who has been playing against men for two years...

Sorry CherBear... not happenin'.
Extreme example but Bobby Ryan>Crosby?

Size is not everything.

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11-14-2010, 12:28 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Tavaresmagicalplay View Post
Extreme example but Bobby Ryan>Crosby?

Size is not everything.
Yes but skill matched with size is...

If you're trying to compare Sidney Crosby vs Ryan to Murphy vs Couturier/Larsson then I don't know what you're trying to do.. Just doesn't make sense..

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11-14-2010, 12:33 AM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aittokallio View Post
I don't see a 5'10" 165 lbs defender playing well in the OHL getting picked over a 6'4" 195 lbs center with 33 points in 23 games or a 6'3" 220 lbs defender who has been playing against men for two years...

Sorry CherBear... not happenin'.
who's 5'-10" 165 lbs?

and what does playing against men for 2 years actually mean?
Any of the top 10 players if they played against men for 2 years doesn't increase their stock one iota!
Too many people put too much credence in that!

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Old
11-14-2010, 12:38 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by hockeyrep View Post
I agree....
It is bizarre as heck to see all the people on here offer up rankings, scouting reports etc. on players that they A) have never seen B) have only seen on tv/web C) have only seen live a few times.
You cannot scout properly or make player judgements by reading stats or watching a player a few times on the tube.
This kind of "scouting" "ranking" is of no valu.
If it did no teams would employ scouting departments and fly people all over the globe costing huge $.
So? It's not like the posters on HF are claiming to be scouts or anything of the sort...anyone who has seen a prospect play has more knowledge than someone who hasn't, and lots of people don't care enough about hockey to watch these kids at all and like to come on here and read what other posters have wrote about games they have seen them play

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11-14-2010, 12:38 AM
  #165
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Talked to a bunch of scouts this week on the subject of Murphy. As of now, always subject to change, Murphy is a wild card prospect whose current consensus, IMO, is between 5 and 15. He will get a lot of the same questions as Ryan Ellis got -- can he play 5 on 5 game at pro level. Working in his favor is he's a better skater than Ellis, more dynamic, more of a true PP QB. Murphy's coach in Kitchener, Steve Spott, thinks he's a special talent and capable of being an everyday pro, and he may be, but at this moment, if the draft were held today, there's some question as to whether he would go Top 10. No. 1?? I suppose anything is possible, but the scouts I talked to this week have Larsson, Couturier, RNH and now Landeskog well ahead of Murphy. The development of the week, I think, was a few scouts told me Landeskog has moved into the same sphere as Larsson, Couturier and RNH.

Murphy will get invited for sure to national junior team camp, but it's far from guaranteed he'll make the team. He could, but it's by no means a sure thing. Ryan Murray may make it before him, just as he did in the U-18 in August. And Murray isn't a sure thing either.

So lots of race still to be run. I knew Don would talk about Murphy tonight because we featured Murphy on NHL on TSN on Friday night. Don must have thought we were trying to horn in on his discovery.

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11-14-2010, 12:41 AM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ward Cornell View Post
who's 5'-10" 165 lbs?

and what does playing against men for 2 years actually mean?
Any of the top 10 players if they played against men for 2 years doesn't increase their stock one iota!
Too many people put too much credence in that!
While I agree, the ONLY thing I think scouts like about seeing 17-18 year olds playing in a pro league is there may be a little less guess work when it comes to trying to envision how a player would play against older, professional competition

Definitely not even close to be a deciding factor though

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Old
11-14-2010, 12:43 AM
  #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMckenzie View Post
Talked to a bunch of scouts this week on the subject of Murphy. As of now, always subject to change, Murphy is a wild card prospect whose current consensus, IMO, is between 5 and 15. He will get a lot of the same questions as Ryan Ellis got -- can he play 5 on 5 game at pro level. Working in his favor is he's a better skater than Ellis, more dynamic, more of a true PP QB. Murphy's coach in Kitchener, Steve Spott, thinks he's a special talent and capable of being an everyday pro, and he may be, but at this moment, if the draft were held today, there's some question as to whether he would go Top 10. No. 1?? I suppose anything is possible, but the scouts I talked to this week have Larsson, Couturier, RNH and now Landeskog well ahead of Murphy. The development of the week, I think, was a few scouts told me Landeskog has moved into the same sphere as Larsson, Couturier and RNH.

Murphy will get invited for sure to national junior team camp, but it's far from guaranteed he'll make the team. He could, but it's by no means a sure thing. Ryan Murray may make it before him, just as he did in the U-18 in August. And Murray isn't a sure thing either.

So lots of race still to be run. I knew Don would talk about Murphy tonight because we featured Murphy on NHL on TSN on Friday night. Don must have thought we were trying to horn in on his discovery.
Thanks Bob.

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Old
11-14-2010, 12:48 AM
  #168
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Don Cherry also said he'd take Brule over Crosby, so let's not pretend the guy's opinion should automatically hold merit. When he's right, he reminds us of it continuously on Coaches Corner. When he's wrong, somehow those pieces of footage never make their way back on the air.

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11-14-2010, 12:53 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
So? It's not like the posters on HF are claiming to be scouts or anything of the sort...anyone who has seen a prospect play has more knowledge than someone who hasn't, and lots of people don't care enough about hockey to watch these kids at all and like to come on here and read what other posters have wrote about games they have seen them play
I am not talking about the people that actually attend the games and see the players they are ranking, scouting etc. etc.

I am talking about the ones that rank/scout players that are doing it based on stats, misc. scouting reports (other peoples work) and zero to limited live viewings.

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11-14-2010, 12:59 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by hockeyrep View Post
I am not talking about the people that actually attend the games and see the players they are ranking, scouting etc. etc.

I am talking about the ones that rank/scout players that are doing it based on stats, misc. scouting reports (other peoples work) and zero to limited live viewings.
Fair enough, but you can see how what you said below could be confusing if the above is what you truly meant.

Quote:
It is bizarre as heck to see all the people on here offer up rankings, scouting reports etc. on players that they A) have never seen B) have only seen on tv/web C) have only seen live a few times.
Either way, I think regardless of where you have seen them, if you want to contribute you might as well....the way I see it is, it could be a lot worse. At least we have tons of people on the board that are passionate enough to watch these kids, reading all the scouting reports, analyze stats (and some posters do A LOT of work in this area), etc.

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11-14-2010, 01:01 AM
  #171
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Yes but skill matched with size is...

If you're trying to compare Sidney Crosby vs Ryan to Murphy vs Couturier/Larsson then I don't know what you're trying to do.. Just doesn't make sense..
Sometimes the better player is the smaller player. Bobby Ryan is big and skilled. Crosby is small and skilled therefore by your logic....you see where I'm going with this now? For another example a lot of people like OEL better than Hedman but Hedman is a bigger player so he must be better right?

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11-14-2010, 01:11 AM
  #172
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See, Bobby Mac knows what's up.

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11-14-2010, 01:13 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
See, Bobby Mac knows what's up.
Pretty sure he stole that from me

Anyways, I think it is safe to say Murphy has a lot more question marks in his game than do guys like SC, RNH, and AL

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11-14-2010, 01:44 AM
  #174
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I gotta give Cherry credit, he usually nails prospects and has his finger on the pulse of the youth. I remember he nailed Hall when no one even knew who he was yet.

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11-14-2010, 01:48 AM
  #175
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Originally Posted by Ward Cornell View Post
who's 5'-10" 165 lbs?

and what does playing against men for 2 years actually mean?
Any of the top 10 players if they played against men for 2 years doesn't increase their stock one iota!
Too many people put too much credence in that!
It's not just playing. He is playing as a top defenseman for his team. And his team is far from garbage. So he is exceptional player compared to everyone before him in SEL.

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