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A Kings Ransom (Gretzky trade documentary in full)

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11-11-2010, 11:18 PM
  #1
tazzy19
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A Kings Ransom (Gretzky trade documentary in full)

This is the best documentary I've ever seen on the Gretzky trade...

http://digitalcitizen.ca/2010/10/31/...e-documentary/

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11-12-2010, 01:19 AM
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shazariahl
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Thank you! I was trying to find this a month or so back with some bit torrent sites, but wasn't having any luck.

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11-12-2010, 04:50 PM
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tazzy19
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No problem! I found it interesting how Glen Sather was so vocally opposed to the trade, how angry he was with Pocklington over it, but how he couldn't do anything to stop it. Some nice footage in there as well of Gretzky with the Oilers and Kings. Also interesting how Gretzky felt he had his best season ever during his last year with the Oilers. I also believed this to be the case. No Paul Coffey, yet still on pace for around 190 points, and then finished it off with an insane 43 points in the playoffs and yet another Conn Smythe. No doubt about it, Gretzky was the best player in the world at the time of the trade, and wouldn't have been surpassed by Lemieux for a few more years had he stayed in Edmonton.

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11-12-2010, 06:16 PM
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I absolutely loved it, great documentary.

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11-13-2010, 08:33 AM
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dannythekid
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The whole ESPN 30 for 30 series was great, but this was one of my favorites.

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11-14-2010, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
No problem! I found it interesting how Glen Sather was so vocally opposed to the trade, how angry he was with Pocklington over it, but how he couldn't do anything to stop it. Some nice footage in there as well of Gretzky with the Oilers and Kings. Also interesting how Gretzky felt he had his best season ever during his last year with the Oilers. I also believed this to be the case. No Paul Coffey, yet still on pace for around 190 points, and then finished it off with an insane 43 points in the playoffs and yet another Conn Smythe. No doubt about it, Gretzky was the best player in the world at the time of the trade, and wouldn't have been surpassed by Lemieux for a few more years had he stayed in Edmonton.
What about Cups, if Gretzky stays Sather said they could win another 2-3.

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11-14-2010, 04:22 AM
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What about Cups, if Gretzky stays Sather said they could win another 2-3.
I think the guy asked Gretzky that question in the documentary and Gretzky felt they might of had another 4 in them. They did just win 4 in 5 seasons, I believe, so it is certainly not unrealistic to see at least 2 or 3 more.

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11-14-2010, 10:37 AM
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I think the guy asked Gretzky that question in the documentary and Gretzky felt they might of had another 4 in them. They did just win 4 in 5 seasons, I believe, so it is certainly not unrealistic to see at least 2 or 3 more.
Let's see:

Oilers won in 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988 with Gretzky.

Gretzky led the Kings over the Oilers in 1989. It's very likely the Oilers win that season if Gretzky had stayed.

In 1990, the Oilers won even without Gretzky.

In 1991 and 1992, Mario vs. Gretzky in the finals would have been epic. Hard to predict, but I could see the Penguins and stacked Oilers (if they had been kept together) splitting the results.

After the Oilers were broken up, their core was basically split between the Kings and Rangers. In 1993, the Kings lost in the finals to 5 games. In 1994, the Rangers won the Cup. It's quite possible that if the Oilers had been kept together, one of these Cups would have been theirs.'

It seems very possible to me that if the Oilers had stayed together, they would have won in 1989, 1990(which they did), 1 of 1991/92, and 1 of 93/94.

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11-14-2010, 01:13 PM
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vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by tazzy19 View Post
This is the best documentary I've ever seen on the Gretzky trade...

http://digitalcitizen.ca/2010/10/31/...e-documentary/
are there in fact other documentaries about the gretzky trade? i'd love to see them.

i saw this documentary a year ago, but now that i'm thinking about it again, is kovalchuk lou lamoriello's gretzky trade? sather was never the same after that. will lou bounce back?

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11-15-2010, 01:45 PM
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Gretzky led the Kings over the Oilers in 1989. It's very likely the Oilers win that season if Gretzky had stayed.
Do they get past the Flames though? Obviously that season was the Flames peak and after surviving their first-round scare against the Canucks they crushed the Kings & Blackhawks and even the Habs only amounted to a speed bump.

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In 1993, the Kings lost in the finals to 5 games. In 1994, the Rangers won the Cup. It's quite possible that if the Oilers had been kept together, one of these Cups would have been theirs.'
1994 then. 1993 clearly had some kind of destiny-voodoo going on for the Canadiens, 100th anniversary of the Cup and all. Although Gretzky did all but single-handedly thwart the Canadiens-Leafs final...

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11-15-2010, 02:56 PM
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Thanks for posting this, I've been looking for it for a while

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11-15-2010, 03:18 PM
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Ziggy Stardust
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Originally Posted by optimus2861 View Post
Do they get past the Flames though? Obviously that season was the Flames peak and after surviving their first-round scare against the Canucks they crushed the Kings & Blackhawks and even the Habs only amounted to a speed bump.


1994 then. 1993 clearly had some kind of destiny-voodoo going on for the Canadiens, 100th anniversary of the Cup and all. Although Gretzky did all but single-handedly thwart the Canadiens-Leafs final...
During the Gretzky era in Los Angeles, the general consensus was that this was a team built for regular season success, and not really a team that could win a Cup. After eliminating the previous years' Stanley Cup champs in back to back years (the Oilers in 1989 and the Flames in 1990), the Kings would easily be disposed of in the second round.

Every year thereafter, the Kings would run into the Oilers and get eliminated without much of a fight. They just couldn't get past Ranford in 1991 and 1992. I'd say their Cup run in 1993 was more of a Cinderella story, Gretzky was not a dominant player that season, having missed half the year due to a bulging disc in his back. His performance during the playoffs that year was phenomenal, coupled with the quite possibly the greatest stretch run Kelly Hrudey exhibited in a Kings uniform.

In addition to Gretz, the Kings had so many aging players who were past their prime or over the hill. Jari Kurri was not the same player he once was. Pat Conacher and Dave Taylor were on their last legs. Jimmy Carson at that point had lost interest in hockey. Charlie Huddy was one of the worst skaters in the NHL at that time. They just couldn't keep up with a faster and younger Montreal team that was riding on the back of arguably the greatest goaltender in NHL history, and one of the best clutch performers ever in Patrick Roy.

As for the trade itself, it was first and foremost a cash transaction, and that was nonnegotiable according to Peter Pocklington and Bruce McNall. Then parts were added to make it resemble a hockey trade. The story of Jimmy Carson is an interesting one. After being dealt to Edmonton, while he did still register impressive numbers, Carson's numbers and play drastically started to decline. As I hinted to earlier, it has often been said that Carson had interests outside of hockey, and his only motivation to continue to play was for him to earn a lot of money.

The draft picks the Oilers acquired from Los Angeles amounted to nothing (outside of Martin Rucinsky) and the biggest contributor to the team (besides Carson helping Edmonton land Petr Klima, Adam Graves and Joe Murphy), was Martin Gelinas.

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11-15-2010, 05:08 PM
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JT Dutch*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
During the Gretzky era in Los Angeles, the general consensus was that this was a team built for regular season success, and not really a team that could win a Cup. After eliminating the previous years' Stanley Cup champs in back to back years (the Oilers in 1989 and the Flames in 1990), the Kings would easily be disposed of in the second round.
... But they were disposed of by the eventual champions in those two seasons, right? So there had to be something there. If the Kings were in any division but the Smythe, or if playoffs were structured by conference as they are today, the Kings likely would have enjoyed some more success.

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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
Every year thereafter, the Kings would run into the Oilers and get eliminated without much of a fight. They just couldn't get past Ranford in 1991 and 1992. I'd say their Cup run in 1993 was more of a Cinderella story, Gretzky was not a dominant player that season, having missed half the year due to a bulging disc in his back. His performance during the playoffs that year was phenomenal, coupled with the quite possibly the greatest stretch run Kelly Hrudey exhibited in a Kings uniform.
... I dunno if it was a cinderella story any more than it was just a case of a certain group of players getting hot at different times to sustain the team's success. Hrudey wasn't any better overall in the playoffs than he was during the season - he had the same .887 save percentage in both. Hrudey was utter crap in the Calgary series, but the offense won it for the Kings. Then Kelly got progressively better until he really was sharp late in the Vancouver series and early in the Toronto series - but that was when the Kings' defense really started to buckle down.

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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
In addition to Gretz, the Kings had so many aging players who were past their prime or over the hill. Jari Kurri was not the same player he once was. Pat Conacher and Dave Taylor were on their last legs. Jimmy Carson at that point had lost interest in hockey.
... Carson was great in the Calgary series, so give me THAT kind of disinterested player. As a reward for his play, Melrose pretty much benched him the rest of the way. Melrose just went with Robitaille-Gretzky-Sandstrom and Donnelly-Millen-Granato - and since he needed Conacher to take draws, Carson was just the odd man out and getting scattered shifts when he could.

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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
They just couldn't keep up with a faster and younger Montreal team that was riding on the back of arguably the greatest goaltender in NHL history, and one of the best clutch performers ever in Patrick Roy.
... Faster and younger? Eh. The Habs were better positionally, and they activated their defensemen more when they needed goals - but then they had Roy so they could afford to do that. Desjardins was pretty much their entire offense until they came to L.A. It pretty much went down to the Canadiens trapping v the Kings being aggressive and Roy v Hrudey. The OT games could have gone either way, but they didn't. They all went one way. By the time game 5 rolled around, the series was over for all intents and purposes. And when Hrudey **** the bed in that last game, that was that. The Kings were totally demoralized and beaten.

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11-15-2010, 05:47 PM
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I found it online uploaded to megashare, I have a link, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post it.

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11-15-2010, 06:56 PM
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That was really interesting. I just wish we could have heard from some of Gretzky's Oilers teammates. I wonder if they were asked to appear but turned it down.

Did anybody else laugh at those people burning the effigy of Peter Pocklington?

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11-16-2010, 12:45 AM
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The Oilers had swept and owned the Flames in the '88 playoffs so there's no reason to think that they, with Gretzky, couldn't have done the same in '89. Sure the Flames were a bit more talented that season than they were a year previous but they didn't have Bob Johnson behind the bench anymore. Terry Crisp vs Glen Sather/John Muckler...I gotta go with the Oilers on this one.

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11-16-2010, 08:06 AM
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One of the other great what-ifs in NHL history. I think had the Oilers core stuck together they probably would have won 3 or 4 more Cups.

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11-16-2010, 08:44 AM
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One of the other great what-ifs in NHL history. I think had the Oilers core stuck together they probably would have won 3 or 4 more Cups.
Pretty good chance.

Especially if they could have afforded to keep Coffey too.

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