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Where does Chara rank?

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Old
11-14-2010, 10:50 AM
  #26
Starchild74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Sergei "Sieve" Gonchar the best defenseman in 2003-04? Chara (very close 2nd in Norris voting to Niedermayer) not even top 5 (and behind Brian McCabe...)?

I guess I can see why you wouldn't want Chara in the HHOF if your main criteria for defenseman is their point totals.
If you read my post it said that they weren't listed in order. I have never ever said that Goncahr was ever the best defenceman in any year.

Credit must be given to all defenceman that have a good year. That year Bryan McCabe was realy good for a borderline Leafs team. Now I hate putting McCabe in there but it is not about who I like or who I hate.

Sometimes what a defenceman does defensively is more important then scoring and other times how a defenceman scores can be more important then how one plays defensively.

To make assumptions as to why I don't want Chara in the HHOF is B.S. I don't make opinions on who I want in the HHOF or who I want to be better. I make it by watching hockey. Just because you don't recognize what Gonchar brought to his teams doesn't make him any more or less important to his teams. I would much rather a defenceman on my team like Chara over Gonchar but that still doesn't mean that Gonchar at times was a better defenceman then Chara.

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11-14-2010, 10:56 AM
  #27
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starchild74 View Post
If you read my post it said that they weren't listed in order. I have never ever said that Goncahr was ever the best defenceman in any year.

Credit must be given to all defenceman that have a good year. That year Bryan McCabe was realy good for a borderline Leafs team. Now I hate putting McCabe in there but it is not about who I like or who I hate.

Sometimes what a defenceman does defensively is more important then scoring and other times how a defenceman scores can be more important then how one plays defensively.

To make assumptions as to why I don't want Chara in the HHOF is B.S. I don't make opinions on who I want in the HHOF or who I want to be better. I make it by watching hockey. Just because you don't recognize what Gonchar brought to his teams doesn't make him any more or less important to his teams. I would much rather a defenceman on my team like Chara over Gonchar but that still doesn't mean that Gonchar at times was a better defenceman then Chara.
I didn't see that they weren't in order - apologies for that.

Still though, I really can't see any way that you could possibly have Chara out of the top 5 in 2003-04. He was getting a lot of support for the Norris that year - it was basically considered a 2 man race for much of the year between Niedermayer's offense and Chara's defense. In the end, Niedermayer won it by a pretty wide margin, but Chara was comfortably ahead of 3rd place:

Scott Niedermayer, NJD 872 (72-13-10-3-2); Zdeno Chara, OTT 563 (19-36-16-11-8); Chris Pronger, STL 345 (7-19-16-17-11); Bryan McCabe, TOR 189 (1-12-10-10-15); Adrian Aucoin, NYI 166 (2-3-12-16-17); Nicklas Lidstrom, DET 165 (1-6-10-19-6); Mathieu Schneider, DET 144 (1-2-17-7-14); Rob Blake, COL 124 (1-8-5-9-6); Sergei Gonchar, BOS 55 (0-3-4-4-2); Wade Redden, OTT 31 (0-0-2-6-3);

I guess you aren't totally alone though... a handful of writers did think Gonchar was top 5 that season.

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11-14-2010, 11:17 AM
  #28
Starchild74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I didn't see that they weren't in order - apologies for that.

Still though, I really can't see any way that you could possibly have Chara out of the top 5 in 2003-04. He was getting a lot of support for the Norris that year - it was basically considered a 2 man race for much of the year between Niedermayer's offense and Chara's defense. In the end, Niedermayer won it by a pretty wide margin, but Chara was comfortably ahead of 3rd place:

Scott Niedermayer, NJD 872 (72-13-10-3-2); Zdeno Chara, OTT 563 (19-36-16-11-8); Chris Pronger, STL 345 (7-19-16-17-11); Bryan McCabe, TOR 189 (1-12-10-10-15); Adrian Aucoin, NYI 166 (2-3-12-16-17); Nicklas Lidstrom, DET 165 (1-6-10-19-6); Mathieu Schneider, DET 144 (1-2-17-7-14); Rob Blake, COL 124 (1-8-5-9-6); Sergei Gonchar, BOS 55 (0-3-4-4-2); Wade Redden, OTT 31 (0-0-2-6-3);

I guess you aren't totally alone though... a handful of writers did think Gonchar was top 5 that season.
I didn't have him in the top 5 because watching that year as good as Chara was and he was. I felt that it was Canadian Media biased that was making Chara out to be even better. Now that is just me. This was the year that Chara was becoming the main guy in Ottawa. Maybe it was because I expect more out of him for his size or my standards are too high and that I thought so little of McCabe that I was so shocked about his performance. in 2003-2004 it was tough leaving Chara out of the top 5 but I made the choice and most will disagree with me. It has nothing to do with liking or hating him. I mean I hate and think McCabe is a bum but can't argue that he put up really good numbers. Like I said in my post I was shocked by how little I had Chara in the top 5. But was not going to just put him in to make my statement in another post that I thought he was top 5 in the last 5 or 6 years either.

As far as voting goes alot of voters voted for Adrian Aucoin. Now I am not a sports writer but I doubt I will get too many arguments for not having him in the top 5. That is why there are so many voters so that all opinions can be heard. That the right guy wins the award.


Also one thing to remember is that we are arguing on a guy who's career is not over and like I said maybe in 5 years I will be arguing that he belongs in the HHOF

Even if I didn't have Chara on the top 5 at all it would still not take anything away from what he has done. I mean Larry Murphy is in the HHOF and when I did the list for the last 30 years I think I only had him in the top 5 once or twice. You don't need to be top 5 every year to be considered, and I never said Chara doesn't deserve to be considered. It is just right now I don't think he is deserving right now. I Have Gonchar in my top 5 alot and do not know if I even think he deserves to be in. So take my top 5 for what it is worth just an opinion not a scientific fact as to who deserves or doesn't deserve to be in the HHOF

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Old
11-17-2010, 12:08 AM
  #29
Hardyvan123
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Adrian Aucoin actually had a very good year that year (his peak year IMO) leading the NYI in plus/minus with 29 and finished 11th in scoring for Dmen as well that year.

It was an off year offensively for Lidstrom which hurt him in the voting.

Chara is well on his way to making the HHOF IMO as long as he keeps his level up for another 5 years and just one good playoff would help his case quite a bit too.

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Old
11-17-2010, 07:39 AM
  #30
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Right now he is borderline, but his story isn't finished, and with at least 5 more years of possible all-star level hockey left in him, I see him as a virtual lock by the time he retires.

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