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Old
11-14-2010, 04:28 AM
  #26
defer*
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Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Buffalo takes it up the pooper. Bad proposal.
ouch

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Old
11-14-2010, 05:22 AM
  #27
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Yikes, why on earth do we want to take on the massive contract of an underachieving Thomas Vanek and Jason Pominville?

I'm pretty sure Buffalo takes this deal and runs, btw.

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Old
11-14-2010, 08:29 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Yikes, why on earth do we want to take on the massive contract of an underachieving Thomas Vanek and Jason Pominville?

I'm pretty sure Buffalo takes this deal and runs, btw.
Agreed.

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Old
11-14-2010, 09:56 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Yikes, why on earth do we want to take on the massive contract of an underachieving Thomas Vanek and Jason Pominville?

I'm pretty sure Buffalo takes this deal and runs, btw.

what makes you say that?

as many others have pointed out...they're giving out way too much offense

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Old
11-14-2010, 11:23 AM
  #30
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There's no way the Sabres would do this, the only guy they can actually use in the trade is Staal, and while any team would love to get him, it's not worth our two best wingers. Orpik brings us nothing for that price and they already have too many defensemen, and having Kunitz and Dupuis as top 6 wingers, which at least one of them would be if they traded Vanek and Pominville, is just bad. Something around Staal and Pominville, with the Sabres adding to Pominville, makes much more sense.

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Old
11-14-2010, 11:31 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by AK View Post
Uh, not quite. Both Pominville and Vanek are laughably overpaid, and the Penguins go from strong to mediocre at both center and defense.

It makes no sense, not even for Buffalo, who becomes even more devoid of scoring.
If trading Staal makes them mediocre at center, Crosby and Malkin aren't as good as we thought.

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Old
11-14-2010, 11:43 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by third man in View Post
If trading Staal makes them mediocre at center, Crosby and Malkin aren't as good as we thought.
Yea I'm pretty sure I take Crosby, Malkin and two AHL pluggers over virtually ever other teams center roster

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Old
11-14-2010, 12:05 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefifagod View Post
There's no way the Sabres would do this, the only guy they can actually use in the trade is Staal, and while any team would love to get him, it's not worth our two best wingers. Orpik brings us nothing for that price and they already have too many defensemen, and having Kunitz and Dupuis as top 6 wingers, which at least one of them would be if they traded Vanek and Pominville, is just bad. Something around Staal and Pominville, with the Sabres adding to Pominville, makes much more sense.
Yeah, adding one of the most physical defensemen in the league, who also is a terrific skater adds nothing to the Sabres. I mean, since they're such a gritty team and all.

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Old
11-14-2010, 01:55 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalocupcrazy View Post
what makes you say that?

as many others have pointed out...they're giving out way too much offense
Disregarding contracts Buffalo probably doesn't do it, but I imagine they'd be pretty stoked to lose Vanek's contract and to a lesser extent Pominville. Staal, Kunitz, Orpik, and Dupuis are all pretty good hockey players, too.

On the other hand it doesn't make a ton of sense for the proposal to send a bunch of "defensive" players for two of another team's best offensive players, so they might actually pass here. I know that Pittsburgh doesn't touch this one with a ten foot pole, though.

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Old
11-14-2010, 02:05 PM
  #35
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as a sabres fan id do this, we have scoring coming through the pipeline and have always needed some role players.

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Old
11-14-2010, 02:33 PM
  #36
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The original proposal is too complex & unrealistic, and the Pens wouldn't want to add two such expensive players. Also, they like Dupuis and what he brings for the money.

The proposal, however, could be simplified down to the following:

Jordan Staal + Brooks Orpik
for
Thomas Vanek + Drew Stafford

Naturally, I'm still not sure either team does this, but this is a more realistic proposal.

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Old
11-14-2010, 02:35 PM
  #37
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lulz



lulz



lulz



lulz lulz lulz
lulz at the lulziness of this post.

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Old
11-14-2010, 02:53 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Malkin4Top6Wingerz View Post
Disregarding contracts Buffalo probably doesn't do it, but I imagine they'd be pretty stoked to lose Vanek's contract and to a lesser extent Pominville. Staal, Kunitz, Orpik, and Dupuis are all pretty good hockey players, too.

On the other hand it doesn't make a ton of sense for the proposal to send a bunch of "defensive" players for two of another team's best offensive players, so they might actually pass here. I know that Pittsburgh doesn't touch this one with a ten foot pole, though.

i don't think so. if you were a fan of the sabres and heard the way our FO speaks of guys like vanek and pommer...you'd be hard pressed to surmise they're looking to dump either one.

i don't think buffalo even picks up the phone for this. pominville is a very good PKer and defensively is probably our best forward.

as someone pointed out, the only proposal that either team considers is a vanek for staal type of deal...both teams add a need without sacrificing too much of another important asset

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Old
11-14-2010, 03:41 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalocupcrazy View Post
i don't think so. if you were a fan of the sabres and heard the way our FO speaks of guys like vanek and pommer...you'd be hard pressed to surmise they're looking to dump either one.

i don't think buffalo even picks up the phone for this. pominville is a very good PKer and defensively is probably our best forward.

as someone pointed out, the only proposal that either team considers is a vanek for staal type of deal...both teams add a need without sacrificing too much of another important asset
Except the Pens deplete the one area they can't and still service a decent roster beyond the stars.

Vanek doesn't provide a whole lot more to send Staal for him and that hefty contract.

That works out to 3.1 for 4 to 15 more points and a big hit on defense.

Vanek can stay a Sabre, Staal is working his cap hit into a real bargain, and the trade off isn't good enough. Especially since they have to add another significant piece, why do it?

You don't.

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Old
11-14-2010, 04:36 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Uncle Martin View Post
Except the Pens deplete the one area they can't and still service a decent roster beyond the stars.

Vanek doesn't provide a whole lot more to send Staal for him and that hefty contract.

That works out to 3.1 for 4 to 15 more points and a big hit on defense.

Vanek can stay a Sabre, Staal is working his cap hit into a real bargain, and the trade off isn't good enough. Especially since they have to add another significant piece, why do it?

You don't.
Salary cap issues aside, I would trade Staal for Vanek in a hearbeat. I'm not sure I could name more than 4 or 5 players who would be better suited for this team and to play with Crosby or Malkin.

Staal is wonderful, and I'm happy to have him on my team. But Vanek would be a perennial 50 goal guy on the Penguins, and would put our PP right near the top of the league, IMO.

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Old
11-14-2010, 04:48 PM
  #41
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If Buffalo doesn't do this they are crazy. They get rid of their two albatross contracts and get back a center that would very easily take over their #1 center role. Besides Vanek's career 84 point year, in which the whole Buffalo team overachieved, he hasn't scored over 64 points. Stall has hit 49 points twice. You give up Stall's amazing contract and defensive ability for 15 extra points? That is a 3 million salary difference for 15 points. For arguments sake we will say those 15 extra points just happen to be goals that year. You get 15 extra goals, but how many do you give up with the loss of a premier Penalty Killer and premier defensive center? On the low end we will say you allow 5 more goals. So you get 10 extra goals for 3 million? That simple fact makes Stall>>>>Vanek.

Then we take Pominville, who is good for around 24 goals a year. He is paid 5 million a year. How many other 20-25 goal scorers in the NHL are paid 5 million a year? Orpik is a premier shutdown D-man and is paid 1.25 million less per year than Pominville. I am not sure I would trade Orpik straight up for Pominville, and I would never trade Stall straight up for Vanek. Then Pittsburgh adds a reasonably priced forward in Dupuis? Pittsburgh takes a huge loss on this trade.

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Old
11-14-2010, 04:52 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmelm View Post
Salary cap issues aside, I would trade Staal for Vanek in a hearbeat. I'm not sure I could name more than 4 or 5 players who would be better suited for this team and to play with Crosby or Malkin.

Staal is wonderful, and I'm happy to have him on my team. But Vanek would be a perennial 50 goal guy on the Penguins, and would put our PP right near the top of the league, IMO.
Interesting. Player for player? Yes I would do it too. Factoring salary into it? I think I'd just play it safe and stand pat. If Vanek doesn't reach say, 42+ goals in any given year it's just not worth it. He's a really good player but that's a lot of goals no matter how you slice it.

He's worth a lot more than "15 extra points" like some are saying though. He'd legitimize the line of either Crosby or Malkin, and whoever he'd play alongside would cruise to about 110 points at the least. It's not about just adding a few goals to the team's yearly total, it's about creating space for others, possessing the puck more as a team, and making others even better than they are now as well as Vanek himself. It'd be virtually impossible for him to crap the bed and finish with something like 28 goals what with all the penalties the Penguins draw and obviously who he'd be riding shotgun with.

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Old
11-14-2010, 06:52 PM
  #43
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Theres no way in hell this would ever happen....

However I do like the make-up of our roster ater the trade;


Dupuis-Staal-Connolly
Ennis-Roy-Kunitz
Hecht-Niedermayer-Kaleta
McCormick-Gaustad-Grier
Stafford

Orpik-Myers
Leopold-Morissonn
Sekers-Montador
Rivet
Butler
Weber

Miller
LOLime

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Old
11-14-2010, 06:58 PM
  #44
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The one thing Shero has done is really not made any albatross Wade Redden type signings. Not that Vanek's contract is quite that bad, but it is bad none the less compared to other players in that pay range. Why in the world would the Pens help another team with a player that a team overpaid for and would love to unload for something valuable? I would not take Vanek for a bag of pucks at $7.1 million per year let alone the trade here. People also still underrate what Staal brings to the table as well. He is more important to the team's defense than Martin, Michalek, Orpik, Letang or any other defenseman on the team. One of the above could go down and the team would hurt, but not that much as another could easily step in. Hell even Crosby could, and has, gone down and Malkin stepped right up and filled the void as the two play very similar roles. We have seen how off sync this team is when Staal goes down though. Staal is pretty untouchable, especially at the bargain price signed long term of a bit over $4 million per year as opposed to say Vanek's a bit over $7 million. And would be so on almost any team in the league. The beauty of Staal is that he is unlikely to ever sniff anything like Vanek type money no matter how valuable because the pay seems to revolve entire around the goal scoring and at his peak Staal likly will end up a shade under 30 goals.

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Old
11-14-2010, 09:08 PM
  #45
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I could maybe see a deal like

To Buf:
Jordan Staal
Brooks Orpik
Simon Depres

To Pit:
Thomas Vanek

maybe something like that would work,
but i highly doubt Pittsburgh could take on that much salary in just 2 players,

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Old
11-14-2010, 09:38 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rock45 View Post
I could maybe see a deal like

To Buf:
Jordan Staal
Brooks Orpik
Simon Depres

To Pit:
Thomas Vanek

maybe something like that would work,
but i highly doubt Pittsburgh could take on that much salary in just 2 players,
Did you forget to put Tyler Myers and a 1st round pick in there? Okay maybe I'm exaggerating but jeez that's just........just......no from Pittsburgh.

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Old
11-14-2010, 11:20 PM
  #47
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Let me just state this right now.

The Sabres are NOT looking for cap relief. They have no cap problems. and are not looking to remove the albatross contracts of their best goal scorer (he is, still) and their best two way forward. Poms is not a playmaker as much as he is a two way effort guy who can score. You've got him completely miscast for the role you're expecting him to fill on your team.

I think this is a horrible stereotype that needs to be put to bed. Just because we once were nearing bankruptcy (looking at you too Pittsburgh) doesn't mean we're only looking for the cheapest of the cheap players. If you want to raid team's offense and only send spare parts back, look at Philly, a team that has and will have real cap problems.

I think Poms and Vanek are perfectly fine contracts that don't bother me a whole lot. This deal does the Sabres no favors. and if they are "rebuilding" I think you rebuild around a guy like Vanek. not move him out for middling players.

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Old
11-14-2010, 11:27 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rock45 View Post
I could maybe see a deal like

To Buf:
Jordan Staal
Brooks Orpik
Simon Depres

To Pit:
Thomas Vanek

maybe something like that would work,
but i highly doubt Pittsburgh could take on that much salary in just 2 players,
We do not want Vaneks terribad contract!

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Old
11-14-2010, 11:34 PM
  #49
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As a Sabres fan, I'd do this is a second.

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Old
11-14-2010, 11:39 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rock45 View Post
I could maybe see a deal like

To Buf:
Jordan Staal
Brooks Orpik
Simon Depres

To Pit:
Thomas Vanek

maybe something like that would work,
but i highly doubt Pittsburgh could take on that much salary in just 2 players,

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