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The Lars Eller Thread

View Poll Results: Eller: Top[ 6 or top 9?
Top 6 121 66.85%
Top 9 60 33.15%
Voters: 181. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-14-2010, 10:56 AM
  #401
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Originally Posted by Bullsmith View Post
Amidst all this talk about Martin mis-developing players, anyone notice Benoit Pouliot thriving on the third line, playing a responsible physical game and already starting to get rewarded with better ice time?
The only players that Martin mis-develops are the ones who refuse to learn the defensive side of hockey and refuse to give it 100% every game.

Guillaume Latendresse refused to give it 100% every game and got benched for it. Guess what? He gives 100% in Minnesota now and admits he wasn't mature enough.

Sergei Kostitsyn wasn't giving 100%, wasn't mature and wasn't playing a good defensive game at all. Where did he go? Off to play in the Grand Ol Opry.

Matt D'Agostini wouldn't play a defensive game. He was gone.

On and on.

There's a reason why Tom Pyatt survived while Max Pacioretty did not. Remember, both are young players. Pyatt is barely a sophomore. It's because Pyatt you can trust on the ice in any shift.

Jacques Martin wants to be able to trust his players. Even if they don't score, at least they do their best to keep goals out. That's our team genetics and it's a great one to have. Once Lars Eller plays better defensively, he'll get his time. He'll get tons of it. Martin doesn't do anything in terms of a players offensive skill. If they have it, they show it. Martin makes sure that while on the ice, they don't give up goals.

One look at how Andrei Kostitsyn doesn't sit around when he doesn't have the puck anymore (well, not all of the time) and will actually play a man is an example of Martin's contribution to the game. If you want to see offensive players ignore their defensive duties, go watch a different team. That won't be the Habs for a long time.

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Old
11-14-2010, 10:57 AM
  #402
MooseOllini
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Originally Posted by QuietReign View Post
No, I think you, and a few others, have misunderstood my statement.

I said i don't like him, and the reason does not have anything to do with him personally/professionally, its more the reminder of having lost such a big asset and not having gotten something of the same value in return (in present value).

Look, i dont think even the biggest Halak supporter, or Eller-hater, will be dumb enough to say Eller is a bust, or Eller has no potential nor future value.

Eller is good, and i understand we had to choose one of the two goalies, but all these years of having seeing Halak's stock slowly rise, I do not think it was unreasonable that I expected a better return on investment (to say the least).

Oh yeah, and one more thing that may be a contributing factor to me not liking the kid is that Martin wont put him on the first two lines. That seriously pisses me off. I think it would do a lot of people justice if they gave the kid 15-20 games on the first two lines.
ELLER IS 21!!! BE PATIENT LOL

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11-14-2010, 10:58 AM
  #403
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Not much happening for the kid points wise yet. But in just about every game you can tell Eller has some great tools. He works hard, he can hold the puck in the offensive zone quite well. Strong. I think Eller should stay in the lineup. I thought he made some pretty sick plays in the Boston game. Nothing comes of those plays yet, but I think with more NHL experience he'll come around.

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11-14-2010, 11:06 AM
  #404
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He's on the 4th line to learn the defensive game in the NHL. He's not here to put up 30 goals right now, he's here to learn. That's why he's up with Martin rather than in the AHL. The team sends players down to the AHL to aren't doing what the coach wants him to do. Right now, Martin wants to be able to put him out there in all situations. One poster above said that when he stops the giveaways he'll play more and more minutes. He's completely right. It is why Pacioretty is down while Pyatt is up. Eller will come good when he learns. And it doesn't look like he is lacking confidence at all. It looks like he's willing to learn and is working hard. That's all I expect from him right now.

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11-14-2010, 11:07 AM
  #405
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Originally Posted by jefferiah View Post
Not much happening for the kid points wise yet. But in just about every game you can tell Eller has some great tools. He works hard, he can hold the puck in the offensive zone quite well. Strong. I think Eller should stay in the lineup. I thought he made some pretty sick plays in the Boston game. Nothing comes of those plays yet, but I think with more NHL experience he'll come around.
I agree... for what ever reason, he's not getting the breaks and getting points or better yet scoring. It will come I'm sure of it.

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11-14-2010, 11:20 AM
  #406
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Eller has started to be more assertive on the ice the last few games. I like the poise in the kid. He's still a bit tentative in close but anywhere else on the ice you feel he's starting to get comfortable.

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Old
11-14-2010, 11:23 AM
  #407
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
The only players that Martin mis-develops are the ones who refuse to learn the defensive side of hockey and refuse to give it 100% every game.

Guillaume Latendresse refused to give it 100% every game and got benched for it. Guess what? He gives 100% in Minnesota now and admits he wasn't mature enough.

Sergei Kostitsyn wasn't giving 100%, wasn't mature and wasn't playing a good defensive game at all. Where did he go? Off to play in the Grand Ol Opry.

Matt D'Agostini wouldn't play a defensive game. He was gone.

On and on.

There's a reason why Tom Pyatt survived while Max Pacioretty did not. Remember, both are young players. Pyatt is barely a sophomore. It's because Pyatt you can trust on the ice in any shift.

Jacques Martin wants to be able to trust his players. Even if they don't score, at least they do their best to keep goals out. That's our team genetics and it's a great one to have. Once Lars Eller plays better defensively, he'll get his time. He'll get tons of it. Martin doesn't do anything in terms of a players offensive skill. If they have it, they show it. Martin makes sure that while on the ice, they don't give up goals.

One look at how Andrei Kostitsyn doesn't sit around when he doesn't have the puck anymore (well, not all of the time) and will actually play a man is an example of Martin's contribution to the game. If you want to see offensive players ignore their defensive duties, go watch a different team. That won't be the Habs for a long time.
We're very much on the same page. I agree with all of this. My problem with Martin is that his teams tend to be too passive for my liking, keeping the games close but booooring. However, when they play aggressively, as they have been lately, the third period against Boston being a prime example, then JM's system can be more entertaining than I'd given him credit for.

As you point out, those who buy in thrive, those who won't work hard, starting with their defensive responsibilities, aren't going to play, period. When enough guys buy in, as they have since the playoffs last year and into this season, the team is pretty impressive. From all indications, Eller is willing to work and learn and is already finding a niche on the 4th line. It may not be on the fast track, but his development certainly looks like it's on a good track.

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Old
11-14-2010, 02:53 PM
  #408
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Martin is playing him the same way he played Spezza.

What I find hilarious is that now Price has hit his stride, the "too young too quick" game is now all about Lars Eller. Nobody wants to be patient about him. Nobody wanted to be patient about Latendresse either. The NHL is the best league to learn. I think Martin wants Eller to learn the NHL defensive game and once he learns that, he'll have full confidence in him.
Being patient about guys is not solely based on keeping them in the NHL whatever the cost is. You can be patient with guys leaving them in the AHL to learn the pro game and then slowly make them NHL'ers. That's also patience. And the only guy not showing patience towards Latendresse is Martin himself. Lats was improving year after year but had a bad start based on playing with Laps, not helping himself and learning how to be a pro being young and all.....Not every youngster has already a strong work ethic at that age. You also need to work with those even if they don't come with an already full package. That's mainly where the coach plays a big part.

NHL is the best league to learn? You just can't mention that for all cases. Ask MaxPac is it's the case. Ask the Wings who will NEVER believe that and let their guys learn the game in the AHL. For some it is. For others, it's not. The day we'll start adapting our attitude depending who we're talking to, we'll then have a better organization. It's not "One way fits all".

I hate reading and seeing that those guys thoroughly don't want to work hard. Those guys are freakin 18-22 year olds. They are freakin kids. It's a maturity process to understand that it's not because everything came to you easily in the lower leagues that it will be like that after. They have to get it in their face to realize it. At least some of them. Then, in all drafts year, there are exceptionnals. Then the other ones, while some would like it to be lack of willingness or whatever, it's mostly none of that and just the learning process kicking in. I love how we're so fast on "He doesn't work hard enough" or "He's not willing to learn it" when we actually have NO CLUE as to how they trained in the summer and how serious they are in front of the video, or at practice and all unless you have some credible insiders, à la Dany Dubé, who does mention to you that there's a WORLD of difference between the Carey Price of this year and the other ones who CLEARLY was playing the prima donna, didn't work hard etc....THEN, you might mention that it was truly a case of not working hard enough. But the others????

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Old
11-14-2010, 02:58 PM
  #409
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
And the only guy not showing patience towards Latendresse is Martin himself. Lats was improving year after year but had a bad start based on playing with Laps, not helping himself and learning how to be a pro being young and all.....Not every youngster has already a strong work ethic at that age.
Latendresse needed a wake up call. You couldn't put him on waivers and clearly benching him did not. So he needed to be traded. He'll be back someday.

Why was Martin patient with Lapierre but not with Latendresse? Attitude and defensive commitment.

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11-14-2010, 03:33 PM
  #410
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Originally Posted by No Team Needed View Post
Latendresse needed a wake up call. You couldn't put him on waivers and clearly benching him did not. So he needed to be traded. He'll be back someday.

Why was Martin patient with Lapierre but not with Latendresse? Attitude and defensive commitment.
Lats should never have been traded. Matter of fact, he should have been sent back to Juniors and then probably AHL. He would have come into the NHL has an absolute beast had they done that, I'm convinced of it.

Still Martin didn't give him much of a chance. He didn't like his attitude, nor his conditioning level and so was traded.
Same thing with S.Kost.

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11-14-2010, 04:30 PM
  #411
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Lats should never have been traded. Matter of fact, he should have been sent back to Juniors and then probably AHL. He would have come into the NHL has an absolute beast had they done that, I'm convinced of it.

Still Martin didn't give him much of a chance. He didn't like his attitude, nor his conditioning level and so was traded.
Same thing with S.Kost.
Lattendresse was lazy and had a poor attitude for years. It didn't help that Martin doesn't tolerate that(shocking some of you dislike that). You cannot tolerate a player like that just because he has potential, especially when they are doing very little for the team. As for Sergei, his teammates, his coaches,the majority of the fans and his GM had enough of Him. What the heck were you expecting?

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11-14-2010, 05:47 PM
  #412
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Originally Posted by BlackStar View Post
Lattendresse was lazy and had a poor attitude for years. It didn't help that Martin doesn't tolerate that(shocking some of you dislike that). You cannot tolerate a player like that just because he has potential, especially when they are doing very little for the team. As for Sergei, his teammates, his coaches,the majority of the fans and his GM had enough of Him. What the heck were you expecting?
If your kid develops a lazy and poor attitude, do you let him be and then kick him out of the house as early as possible??...Of course not, you fix him.

If Latendresse was showing signs of laziness and poor attitude, you freaking fix it. That's what makes you a good developer versus a rather average/poor one. He was 19 in his first season with us. Do you realize this?..19!..That's a freaking teenager! and we're not talking about a superstar here. Price made the team a year after him, do I really have to remind you about his attitude/laziness issues??..And It's not like there was much progress on that front until late last year. He was criticized for being the first one out of the pre-game skates when Halak was playing, and so on. Things seem to have changed for him when Markov lashed out.

Sure Lats had his flaws, but nothing that couldn't have been worked on. Just like we did with Price.
I'm not going to have a Lats debate again. It's useless anyways.


As for Sergei, he reached the point of no return with most fans the moment he refused to show up in AHL. After that it continued with some piss poor attitude for the rest of the year.
Where I disagreed with Martin is when he sent him down after camp last year. He was the best player to complete the top 6, and we had our first clear/perfect opportunity to put the broz together next to Plekanec. I think it's a shame we never had the chance to see the brothers play along side each other for more than a few games. They always made things happened when paired together, and made up our best line when centered by Lang a few years back.

I can't blame management for getting rid of Sergei after all the crap he did. But it's yet another skilled prospect that we got rid off, and for someone that we already placed on waivers.

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