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A question on the plus/minus statistic.

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Old
11-14-2010, 10:08 AM
  #1
bester vaive
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A question on the plus/minus statistic.

Recently I read that Bobby Orr was a plus 124 and Larry Robinson +120 in separate seasons. Does anyone know what the all-time records are for this stat, both plus and minus? Also, could someone please list the best (or worst) +/- by position? Thanks!

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11-14-2010, 10:37 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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When you need a statistic, check hockey-reference.com first:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/lead...us_season.html

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11-14-2010, 08:31 PM
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pappyline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
When you need a statistic, check hockey-reference.com first:

http://www.hockey-reference.com/lead...us_season.html
Even hockey-reference.com has limitations. Data is only from 67 on & doesn't include WHA even though it says it does.

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11-14-2010, 10:01 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappyline View Post
Even hockey-reference.com has limitations. Data is only from 67 on & doesn't include WHA even though it says it does.
the data only exists from 1967 and onwards. and it does include the WHA.

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11-14-2010, 10:18 PM
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pappyline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
the data only exists from 1967 and onwards. and it does include the WHA.
I realize that records weren't kept until 1967 but the reference doesn't indicate that.

I don't see any WHA numbers in that link. For 74-75, where is Hull's +55 & Howe's +40.

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11-14-2010, 10:49 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pappyline View Post
I realize that records weren't kept until 1967 but the reference doesn't indicate that.

I don't see any WHA numbers in that link. For 74-75, where is Hull's +55 & Howe's +40.
You're right that for some reason that link doesn't have WHA even thought it says it does. But the site definitely has full WHA stats right down to sv% and +/-.

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11-15-2010, 12:12 AM
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nik jr
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i suppose there is not a quick way to find most -'s and most +'s in an NHL season.

some european leagues record plus and minus separately, which would be a good idea for the NHL.


i am fairly certain that the highest plus is gretzky in '86 with 191. gretzky had 190 in '82.


some of the highest minus

doug owchar '78: 141
paul coffey '90: 140
dave babych '81: 139
gary nylund '86: 137
jocelyn guevremont '73: 130
doug lidster '87: 128
carol vadnais '76: 127
wayne gretzky '89: 126
rick lapointe '80: 126
dave ellett '86: 126
reed larson '81: 125
willie huber '82: 125
mark hardy '84: 125
barry gibbs '79: 125
jean hamel '75: 123
borje salming '84: 122
ian turnbull '81: 121
greg smith '78: 121

gretzky is the only F on the list, and i think the only player who was not a minus over that season.


if doug owchar has the highest number of minus, he would be a great trivia question.

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11-15-2010, 05:39 AM
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reckoning
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Plus/minus numbers were released by the league in the final four seasons of the O6 era, but I haven't found them anywhere on the Internet. The best bet would be if anyone has Hockey News back issues from those years.

But they were released starting with the '63-'64 season. There's an essay by Ron Andrews in the first Total Hockey that talks about he had convinced the league to release those stats because there were fans that were interested in them. It mentions that Pierre Pilote had the best +/- for the 63-64 season.

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11-15-2010, 03:39 PM
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Bottom-25 (career)

1 Bob Stewart 1972 1980 TOT NHL D 575 -260
2 Don Lever 1973 1987 TOT NHL LW 1020 -240
3 Gary Croteau 1969 1980 TOT NHL LW 684 -227
4 Dave Babych 1981 1999 TOT NHL D 1195 -223
5 Guy Charron 1970 1981 TOT NHL C 734 -208
6 Willie Huber 1979 1988 TOT NHL D 655 -203
7 Joe Cirella 1982 1996 TOT NHL D 828 -201
8 Jack Lynch 1973 1979 TOT NHL D 382 -197
9 Mike Sillinger 1991 2009 TOT NHL C 1049 -191
10 Ivan Boldirev 1971 1985 TOT NHL C 1052 -190
11 Kelly Buchberger 1988 2004 TOT NHL RW 1182 -177
12 Alexandre Daigle 1994 2006 TOT NHL C 616 -176
13 Michel Petit 1983 1998 TOT NHL D 827 -172
14 Rob Ramage 1980 1994 TOT NHL D 1044 -171
15 Lucien DeBlois 1978 1992 TOT NHL C 993 -170
16 Stan Gilbertson 1972 1977 TOT NHL LW 428 -168
17 Nick Libett 1968 1981 TOT NHL LW 982 -167
18 Greg Joly 1975 1983 TOT NHL D 365 -163
19 Ray Neufeld 1980 1990 TOT NHL RW 595 -163
20 Dennis Kearns 1972 1981 VAN NHL D 677 -158
21 Andrew McBain 1984 1994 TOT NHL RW 608 -151
22 Bill Mikkelson 1972 1977 TOT NHL D 147 -147
23 Kirk Muller 1985 2003 TOT NHL LW 1349 -146
24 Ernie Hicke 1971 1978 TOT NHL LW 520 -145
25 Chris Gratton 1994 2009 TOT NHL C 1092 -143

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Old
11-15-2010, 07:11 PM
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DJ Man
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Didn't the League actually try to keep the plus-minus stats confidential for a while?

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11-18-2010, 05:27 PM
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Scott1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Man View Post
Didn't the League actually try to keep the plus-minus stats confidential for a while?
The first time I saw the totals (career) for players was this almanac wiht Jagr on the cover (2000) and then the first time I saw the goals for / goals against stat was hockey-reference.

You know, I read a Total Hockey book from a friend some time back (2000s) and they didn't have:

+/-
WHA stats!

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Old
11-18-2010, 05:43 PM
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Hawkey Town 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i suppose there is not a quick way to find most -'s and most +'s in an NHL season.

some european leagues record plus and minus separately, which would be a good idea for the NHL.


i am fairly certain that the highest plus is gretzky in '86 with 191. gretzky had 190 in '82.


some of the highest minus

doug owchar '78: 141
paul coffey '90: 140
dave babych '81: 139
gary nylund '86: 137
jocelyn guevremont '73: 130
doug lidster '87: 128
carol vadnais '76: 127
wayne gretzky '89: 126
rick lapointe '80: 126
dave ellett '86: 126
reed larson '81: 125
willie huber '82: 125
mark hardy '84: 125
barry gibbs '79: 125
jean hamel '75: 123
borje salming '84: 122
ian turnbull '81: 121
greg smith '78: 121

gretzky is the only F on the list, and i think the only player who was not a minus over that season.


if doug owchar has the highest number of minus, he would be a great trivia question.
Where did you find the separate + and - data?

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Old
11-19-2010, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bester vaive View Post
Recently I read that Bobby Orr was a plus 124 and Larry Robinson +120 in separate seasons. Does anyone know what the all-time records are for this stat, both plus and minus? Also, could someone please list the best (or worst) +/- by position? Thanks!
Best user name ever!

My two favorite players growing up!

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Old
11-19-2010, 12:19 PM
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19Yzerman19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik jr View Post
i suppose there is not a quick way to find most -'s and most +'s in an NHL season.

some european leagues record plus and minus separately, which would be a good idea for the NHL.


i am fairly certain that the highest plus is gretzky in '86 with 191. gretzky had 190 in '82.


some of the highest minus

doug owchar '78: 141
paul coffey '90: 140
dave babych '81: 139
gary nylund '86: 137
jocelyn guevremont '73: 130
doug lidster '87: 128
carol vadnais '76: 127
wayne gretzky '89: 126
rick lapointe '80: 126
dave ellett '86: 126
reed larson '81: 125
willie huber '82: 125
mark hardy '84: 125
barry gibbs '79: 125
jean hamel '75: 123
borje salming '84: 122
ian turnbull '81: 121
greg smith '78: 121

gretzky is the only F on the list, and i think the only player who was not a minus over that season.


if doug owchar has the highest number of minus, he would be a great trivia question.
I don't know something in these numbers just doesn't wash, How was Gretzky -126 in a season he scored 168 points and the team only gave up 324 total goals that season??

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Old
11-19-2010, 12:27 PM
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seventieslord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveYzermanGreatest View Post
I don't know something in these numbers just doesn't wash, How was Gretzky -126 in a season he scored 168 points and the team only gave up 324 total goals that season??
They're definitely correct. Gretzky had 126 minuses that year.

He had even more pluses though.

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Old
11-19-2010, 12:52 PM
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19Yzerman19
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Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
They're definitely correct. Gretzky had 126 minuses that year.

He had even more pluses though.
Ok am I missing something then? Isn't the OP's question best +/- total for a season?

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Old
11-19-2010, 01:01 PM
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seventieslord
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Originally Posted by SteveYzermanGreatest View Post
Ok am I missing something then? Isn't the OP's question best +/- total for a season?
Yes, you're missing something. that posted list was the highest single season minus marks, with pluses excluded.

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