This "regular shift" nonsense is fantasy land and video game stuff. There isn't a single thing Mike Comrie does well to even justify him being on the roster, much less be given 18 minutes a game.
OK, cut him then. He was brought in as a cheap top-six winger possibility. If deemed that he hasn't panned out, then cut him. But you have to REPLACE him. And no, not with Chris Conner. You need to replace him with an actual top-six winger.
Comrie may have looked useless out there so far this season, but he ain't going to get any less useless toiling on the fourth line that's for certain.
As The Rock used to say, "know your role!" On this team this season, I doubt very many players know what their role actually is on this team.
Comrie hasn't exactly played his way into a spot, but he also hasn't been managed very well at all. He never even really got a legitimate chance with Crosby, which still baffles me. Why not at least try him out there for a game or two at the start of the season?
No offense dude, but I can't help but be a dick when I read stuff like that, because it's more about riding the train and piling on the coach rather than understanding what you're watching. D-zone coverage fine. PP problems, go for it. But Mike Comrie?
This "regular shift" nonsense is fantasy land and video game stuff. There isn't a single thing Mike Comrie does well to even justify him being on the roster, much less be given 18 minutes a game. It's yet more well-wishing by fans that he might be another diamond in the rough. He's a **** hockey player that was jobless until September for a reason. Give me Chris Conner on the roster over Comrie any day.
Then he shouldn't have been signed. The guy was always going to be a shot in the dark, a Hail Mary-esque signing that would either be boom or bust. But in order for him to have any chance whatsoever to be that "boom" signing, he'd need to play with a guy like Crosby, not guys like Craig Adams or Mike Rupp.
So if the organization wasn't interested in playing him alongside Crosby on a regular basis (ie. what Dupuis plays alongside Crosby), then why even bother signing him? They were better off just keeping Tangradi or one of the other youngsters up.
You could argue Byslma didn't have a voice in whether Comrie was signed or not, but if that's the case then we've got a whole other issue in the organization where the coach and GM aren't on the same page in terms of roster building and what kind of players we should have.
And that's my point. If you're not going to give Comrie regular shifts beside guys with skill, why bother signing him in the first place? Anyone with half a sense could have predicted how Comrie would perform if he was played as anything less than Crosby's sidekick. So the only reason to even give him a chance is if you're willing to see how he does next to Crosby.
Last edited by Sidney the Kidney: 11-14-2010 at 10:49 PM.
And that's my point. If you're not going to give Comrie regular shifts beside guys with skill, why bother signing him in the first place? Anyone with half a sense could have predicted how Comrie would perform if he was played as anything less than Crosby's sidekick. So the only reason to even give him a chance is if you're willing to see how he does next to Crosby.
Yeah, that..... or perhaps one would have tested the Crosby relationship just a tiny little bit in pre-season also.... or at least when having us all salivating at how well Comrie worked out with Malkin and Tangradi... don't tear that line apart less than two periods into the season when it was looking our best line.
This is not saying that Comrie has since then done much to deserve serious looks... he has not. But if Bylsma wants him to win ice-time from the 4th line through hustle, like he had to himself, then that is never going to happen and it is simply a waste of cap-space.... and waste of an opportunity, long shot as it seems by now.
There should be no discussion. Satan blows. He doesn't fit our team at all.
This...
Quote:
Originally Posted by obsessedcreative
Who the hell said he would be making anywhere NEAR 3.5 again!? All of our talk ( miro supports ) were prefacing that he would be CHEAP 500k-700k.
And when he was signed to that 3.5 cap hit it was for ONE year and at that point in time a lot of the core guys raises' haven't kicked in and the cap wasn't much of an issue as it is now, and like it or not he helped this team win a cup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by td_ice
Exactly.
Different time, different situation. 3.5 million?, come on......... that's just crazy talk.
I'm talking about that season.
Doesn't change the fact he wasn't worth 3.5 then, or......500,000 now.
I guess players yelling at him on the bench means nothing to you? He got a free ride, had they not done something, he doesn't have a shiny ring. He was one of the biggest problems that season. He didn't show effort, or remorse for lack there of.
Then he shouldn't have been signed. The guy was always going to be a shot in the dark, a Hail Mary-esque signing that would either be boom or bust. But in order for him to have any chance whatsoever to be that "boom" signing, he'd need to play with a guy like Crosby, not guys like Craig Adams or Mike Rupp.
So if the organization wasn't interested in playing him alongside Crosby on a regular basis (ie. what Dupuis plays alongside Crosby), then why even bother signing him? They were better off just keeping Tangradi or one of the other youngsters up.
You could argue Byslma didn't have a voice in whether Comrie was signed or not, but if that's the case then we've got a whole other issue in the organization where the coach and GM aren't on the same page in terms of roster building and what kind of players we should have.
And that's my point. If you're not going to give Comrie regular shifts beside guys with skill, why bother signing him in the first place? Anyone with half a sense could have predicted how Comrie would perform if he was played as anything less than Crosby's sidekick. So the only reason to even give him a chance is if you're willing to see how he does next to Crosby.
He got enough time with Malkin, and enough 1st unit PP time to show exactly what he would have shown with Crosby: nothing. If that wraparound attempt in Phoenix wasn't enough to convince people he doesn't belong in the league anymore, I don't know what will.
I'm no fan of Dupuis either (in a top six role) but as it stands, he's our best winger. That has as much to do with Shero and our cap as it does Dupuis, but like it or not, the guy looks like he's going to score around 20 goals and this is without the benefit of any PP time. At this point in time, Pascal Dupuis is twice the hockey player Mike Comrie is. Chris Conner isn't my idea of a top six player, but try telling me right now with a straight face that the Letestu line with TK would be BETTER if Comrie were on it rather than Conner.
When someone sucks (and make no mistake, Comrie is now an AWFUL hockey player) you don't give him more ice time just to validate the GM's gamble, cheap as it may have been. Letestu's getting his shot because he earned it by what he does on the ice, not because he was some pet project who gets to go to the front of the line.
And this is why I get mad when Bylsma gets dumped on for certain things. There isn't a single thing - not one - that Mike Comrie does well. If you're small, you better be fast. If you're not fast, you better be able to score. If you can't do that either, you should be putting people through the boards. If you score a big zero on all these fronts, what use are you to any hockey team?
Doesn't change the fact he wasn't worth 3.5 then, or......500,000 now.
I guess players yelling at him on the bench means nothing to you? He got a free ride, had they not done something, he doesn't have a shiny ring. He was one of the biggest problems that season. He didn't show effort, or remorse for lack there of.
You guys remember the game where they had a team meeting with out the coaches after it?
Ya, the Boston game, they lost 5-2 Jan-2nd 2009, and Crosby and a couple others were yelling at Satan. He didn't even flinch, or show anything but crack a smile.
Closed door meeting with the players only, MT's quote: " What took them so long?"
He was mostly used on the lower lines from there on. It had nothing to do about production, but rather his lack of effort.
Eventually MT is let go Feb. 16th and Satan is waived an sent to the minors a couple weeks later for Guerin's arrival.
i think satan played EXTREMELY well for us in the playoffs. if he still has that exact same level of game in him im all for it.
he was a stinker in the reg season tho, but who really cares?
I only got to see 1 pre-season game, but I don't understand how Comrie could seem to be so effective in those games, yet look like a turd as soon as the regular season started.
Let me help you understand it then. He was playing against AHL and prospect level talent. Now, he's having to compete against a team full of NHL talent and he is failing. Miserably.
And I don't wanna hear the 'limited chances' BS. Limited chances are still better than no chances and he hasn't made one noticeable play all year. I was a nice try and a hopefully one, but it's not working.
I'd rather have Conner up here than either Miro or Comrie. That kid hustles. If he continues to do such, I'll be happy.
Let me help you understand it then. He was playing against AHL and prospect level talent. Now, he's having to compete against a team full of NHL talent and he is failing. Miserably.
And I don't wanna hear the 'limited chances' BS. Limited chances are still better than no chances and he hasn't made one noticeable play all year. I was a nice try and a hopefully one, but it's not working.
I'd rather have Conner up here than either Miro or Comrie. That kid hustles. If he continues to do such, I'll be happy.
Yup, that's exactly what we need...another player who 'hustles'. Yay team. Team Hustle.
if people are going to point to .... "hey look at the time on the pp comrie got!!!" yea you guys do know that this power play has scored 1 time in like 30+ attempts since he's been off of it right? so he really had no negative impact.
justify not playing him all you want, the fact is still that he has the best hands on the team outside of sid and geno and DB refused to play him with sid for any length of time. Geno hasn't been producing and has tried to do a lot on his own so i'm not suprised comrie didnt just start lighting the world on fire. Then the guy gets put down on the 3rd and 4th lines and no PP time.
those of you that think he was handled correctly are just dead wrong. Bylsma rewards and plays players in key roles that remind him of himself and its hurting the team IMO
if it was zherdev that was brought in we would be seeing the same thing, and is probably what happened with poni last post-season... you know the pp specialist that was supposed to make guerin obsolete, yea we saw how much he was used on the top unit. now did i want poni back? no, but there were reasons the guy was a consistent 20+ goal scorer
a lot of people think DB does no wrong in handling these floater skill guys like they are trash.... and these guys can carry a team offensively during stretches of the season, something talbot, rupp, adams, etc. can not and will never do.
This is not saying that Comrie has since then done much to deserve serious looks... he has not. But if Bylsma wants him to win ice-time from the 4th line through hustle, like he had to himself, then that is never going to happen and it is simply a waste of cap-space.... and waste of an opportunity, long shot as it seems by now.
Well said Rip.
This is exactly how I feel about the situation. Certain guys are not grinders, they do not earn any inch of ice with battle or hard work. They make plays other players cannot through the finer skills, and thus have a value.
Comrie looked bad in his role in the regular season. When playing OFTEN in pre-season, he made some plays and showed some vision. But in my mind, this is why Bylsma would never get much out of Comrie, Sykora, Satan....
Most of the game they do little to make huge impact other than be in position, move the puck, and hopefully get on the score sheet. Bylsma looks at each shift while coaching the way he knew it as a player. You don't do every little thing right, you get no ice.
if people are going to point to .... "hey look at the time on the pp comrie got!!!" yea you guys do know that this power play has scored 1 time in like 30+ attempts since he's been off of it right? so he really had no negative impact.
justify not playing him all you want, the fact is still that he has the best hands on the team outside of sid and geno and DB refused to play him with sid for any length of time. Geno hasn't been producing and has tried to do a lot on his own so i'm not suprised comrie didnt just start lighting the world on fire. Then the guy gets put down on the 3rd and 4th lines and no PP time.
those of you that think he was handled correctly are just dead wrong. Bylsma rewards and plays players in key roles that remind him of himself and its hurting the team IMO
if it was zherdev that was brought in we would be seeing the same thing, and is probably what happened with poni last post-season... you know the pp specialist that was supposed to make guerin obsolete, yea we saw how much he was used on the top unit. now did i want poni back? no, but there were reasons the guy was a consistent 20+ goal scorer
a lot of people think DB does no wrong in handling these floater skill guys like they are trash.... and these guys can carry a team offensively during stretches of the season, something talbot, rupp, adams, etc. can not and will never do.
give me a break
Seriously glad what i have been thinking for a few weeks is being echoed.
I think you are spot on, I was thinking exactly of Zherdev as "that guy would be a scratch in minutes".
I'll call this a personal epiphany on the topic for me.
A guy like Comrie or Satan is here to help the team win, as is every player on the team. To help the team win, each player has an area of the game they excel at, that is how they made it to the NHL. Some players play a type of game which it is easy to be considered making an impact every shift.
Lets take Adams. His game is hustle, hitting, and blocking shots. (being in position everyone should be accountable for. For Adams, making an impact is pretty simple and he can do this nearly every shift. Hitting or blocking shots are will driven and occur many times in a game. However, you could play Adams on the top line all year, he could lead the team in ice-time, and would have extremely few points. By maximizing this kind of player's ice time there is little upside, it's about using them in the right spot so the will to do the little things makes a big impact.
Now take Comrie. He does none of these little things (notably) on most shifts. What he can do is be a part of 2 plays that result in goals that would not be possible had Adams been playing in his place. However, the Penguins average just over 3 goals per game, and good scoring chances are fairly rare compared to the opportunity to take the body. Therefore, knowing there are fewer opportunities for Comrie to make an impact the thing a player of that mold needs is time. It is lightning in a bottle having Comrie get on the score sheet while playing 4th line minutes.
The key is if Comrie overall is hurting the team. If he played on the first line and they were minus 2 many nights in some way due to his lack of sandpaper, I would say sit him. He never got that chance, nor has he been a liability deserving of being scratched. But, it is fair to say that he is as effective a 4th liner as Adams is a 1st liner.
All in all, I don't think we will ever have a successful purely offensive player be successful in Pittsburgh under DB, unless he learns to handle them as first and second line players.
