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How long until Giroux gets the recognition he deserves?(What's his potential?)

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Old
11-15-2010, 02:35 PM
  #51
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
You're right. Tim Thomas is a hack who's never demonstrated top-end ability in this league nor won any individual awards for his play. All stats at this point of the season are meaningless.
You love stuffing words into people's mouths and you love to nitpick. At least that's what I'm getting from this quote.

You're obviously missing the point if you're nitpicking over me picking Thomas an example. I never said Thomas was a hack, but you're a fool if you think 17 games and one month of the season is representative of anything for the end of the season.

I never said the stats are meaningless either.

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This whole debate is just stupid. On one hand, it's foolish to expect his numbers to continue trending perfectly. On the other hand, it's stupid to discount his success so far as 'things just going well for him.'
I never discounted his entire success or brushed off his potential. There's some facts about his numbers that you shouldn't expect to keep up though and the breakaway tidbit is one of them.

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The kid is incredibly talented, reads plays well, and makes opportunities for himself. It's not like he's just getting lucky and the puck is bouncing to him...he puts himself in great position and a lot of times simply imposes his will on other players. He's a great playmaker with sick talent; it's not unreasonable to think that this is simply a matter of him gaining enough confidence and playing time to make the best of it.
While Giroux's a very smart play whose skill-set is perfect for breakaway opportunities, breakaways almost always don't happen unless the opposing defense screws up. If you expect Giroux to get over half his goals and roughly a fourth of his points IIRC on breakaways then be my guest.

17 games isn't indicative of anything long-term. It just isn't. It's like a month and a week into the season.

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Trying to put some ceiling on things close to last year's numbers and be a downer about it because of what he did last year is just dumb, though.
Not being a downer. The topic is "does Giroux get enough recognition" and I said that he gets more then enough.

I don't see how being grounded and realizing what a small sample size means is being a downer though.

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Old
11-15-2010, 02:38 PM
  #52
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We have a great young player locked in for 3 more years at a pretty decent cap hit. Why in the hell are people in here arguing with each other?

Who gives a **** if he's underrated, overrated, underappreciated, whatever? We're lucky to have him, end of story.

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Old
11-15-2010, 02:48 PM
  #53
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C'mon people don't you realize that G's success is wholly attributed to the fact that team defenses are still in a state of flux since it's early in the season and thus he will be "figured out" and the opposing D men will be less "dumb" in allowing breakaways which apparently should not statistically count when he capitalizes

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Old
11-15-2010, 02:53 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Since April 2010

Briere: 43 GP - 22 G - 24 A - 46 P - 1.07 PPG - 88 PPace
Giroux: 46 GP - 21 G - 23 A - 44 P - 0.96 PPG - 79 PPace
Richards: 46 GP - 16 G - 27 A - 43 P - 0.93 PPG - 76 PPace
Leino: 40 GP - 10 G - 27 A - 37 P - 0.93 PPG - 76 PPace
Carter: 31 GP - 13 G - 10 A - 23 P - 0.74 PPG - 61 PPace
Hartnell: 46 GP - 14 G - 16 A - 30 P - 0.65 PPG - 53 PPace

He's been our second highest scoring forward for over half a hockey year now (41 games = 1/2 hockey year).
But wait Shafer you CAN'T include the playoffs there were 3 mos that separated the playoffs from the beginning of the season. Of course how many YEARS has it been since Carter scored 46 goals....

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Old
11-15-2010, 03:01 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
But wait Shafer you CAN'T include the playoffs there were 3 mos that separated the playoffs from the beginning of the season. Of course how many YEARS has it been since Carter scored 46 goals....
Dude, Carter was hurt. In that same time frame, he broke two feet...

So far this season:

Giroux: 1.06 PPG / Pace: 43 G - 43 A - 86 P
Richards: 0.94 PPG / Pace: 29 G - 48 A - 77 P
Carter: 0.88 PPG / Pace: 39 G - 34 A - 73 P
Leino: 0.88 PPG / Pace: 15 G - 58 A - 73 P
Briere: 0.86 PPG / Pace: 47 G - 23 A - 70 P
Hartnell: 0.71 PPG / Pace: 29 G - 29 A - 58 P

(Pace based on 82 games.)

Clearly a healthy Carter is behind the pack.

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Old
11-15-2010, 03:39 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
You love stuffing words into people's mouths and you love to nitpick. At least that's what I'm getting from this quote.

You're obviously missing the point if you're nitpicking over me picking Thomas an example. I never said Thomas was a hack, but you're a fool if you think 17 games and one month of the season is representative of anything for the end of the season.

I never said the stats are meaningless either.



I never discounted his entire success or brushed off his potential. There's some facts about his numbers that you shouldn't expect to keep up though and the breakaway tidbit is one of them.



While Giroux's a very smart play whose skill-set is perfect for breakaway opportunities, breakaways almost always don't happen unless the opposing defense screws up. If you expect Giroux to get over half his goals and roughly a fourth of his points IIRC on breakaways then be my guest.

17 games isn't indicative of anything long-term. It just isn't. It's like a month and a week into the season.



Not being a downer. The topic is "does Giroux get enough recognition" and I said that he gets more then enough.

I don't see how being grounded and realizing what a small sample size means is being a downer though.
You're not really just being grounded or realizing what a small sample size means, though.

If you take a larger sample size of Giroux's recent play by including the playoff run, then you have even more evidence supporting the claim that the way he's started this season is more of a continuation of last year's playoffs.

The fact is that his level of play hasn't just been over 17 games...it's been longer than that. There's no reason to think that it can't continue. And a lot of his breakaways and one-on-one situations have been manufactured chances...not just the defense screwing up.


The fact of the matter is that a 40/40 season from Giroux isn't unrealistic. It's actually pretty fair, given his hockey IQ and skill set. And with the way he's been playing this season and from the playoffs, it's perfectly reasonable to think he'll get there. It is not, however, reasonable to think that 1.5 seasons of third-line minutes and linemates is reason to expect his production this year must statistically tail off, or that his offensive playmaking ability has more to do with defensive lapses than with the fact that his on-ice vision is just insane.

There's no real reason to think his level of play won't continue to be where it is, no matter how many you try to invent.

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Old
11-15-2010, 03:43 PM
  #57
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Plus Giroux was PPG in the AHL, and the Q

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Old
11-15-2010, 04:02 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Plus Giroux was PPG in the AHL, and the Q
Wasn't he also a champion in the Q and playoff MVP?

Wikipedia:
Quote:
Finishing his tenure in Gatineau, he helped the club win the QMJHL Playoffs and earned himself the Guy Lafleur Trophy as MVP in the QMJHL Playoffs by scoring 17 goals and 34 assists in 19 playoff games, also setting a franchise record.[1]

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Old
11-15-2010, 08:22 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I already do? I recognize that he's a fantastic young player that has some great playoffs to his name, but some lackluster regular seasons as well.
What lackluster regular seasons are you referring to exactly? He's played ONE & a HALF seasons!
47 points centering a rookie and Aaron Asham isn't lackluster! It is a strong foundation!

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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I've been miserable about him? Please point out any post where I've said I don't like Giroux, where I've belittled what he has done, or where I haven't given him credit for what he's done. Go ahead, I dare you to find any post I've ever made about Giroux that shows that I don't like him.

I'll call him a star when he's actually a star. The part about breaking out and becoming a star is pure speculation on something that has yet to happen on your part.
Dude, in EVERY THREAD about Giroux you rear your head and post a dozen or more "realistic" naysays. It looks like an obsession from where I'm sitting.

If you can't see that the kid is breaking out before our eyes then I just don't know what you are looking at, aside from last year's stat sheet.

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Old
11-15-2010, 08:43 PM
  #60
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Another goal for Giroux. He's slowing down as we speak.

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Old
11-15-2010, 08:45 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Another goal for Giroux. He's slowing down as we speak.
Not an even strength goal. Doesnt count.

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Old
11-15-2010, 08:48 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Another goal for Giroux. He's slowing down as we speak.
The goalie purposely let it in!

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Old
11-15-2010, 08:49 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Not an even strength goal. Doesnt count.
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyersFan18 View Post
The goalie purposely let it in!
He only scored because the defense and goalie both screwed up, and he has dangly moves one on one. Everyone knows he can't shoot, and players who can't shoot only score if the other team messes up.

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11-15-2010, 08:50 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Not an even strength goal. Doesnt count.
He got lucky, the pass was supposed to go to Kimmo.

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Old
11-15-2010, 08:51 PM
  #65
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The problem with this Claude Giroux character is that he can only score on breakaways... once he can stop doing that and figure out the other more intricate parts of offense at the NHL level... well the Flyers might have a player on their hands. Until then though he's just another depth player.

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Old
11-15-2010, 08:52 PM
  #66
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Claude Giroux is the best thing since grilled cheese on sliced bread.

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Old
11-15-2010, 09:03 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Lucky Luke View Post
Claude Giroux is the best thing since grilled cheese on sliced bread.
Grilled cheese only tastes good when the defense screws up and lets you go eat it behind them. Calling it a sandwich at this point is a little ridiculous.

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Old
11-15-2010, 09:06 PM
  #68
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I can't figure out why other teams haven't figured him out yet.....

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11-15-2010, 09:35 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Grilled cheese only tastes good when the defense screws up and lets you go eat it behind them. Calling it a sandwich at this point is a little ridiculous.
I don't know why but for some reason that's the funniest thing I've read in a while.

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Old
11-15-2010, 09:38 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infidelappel View Post
Grilled cheese only tastes good when the defense screws up and lets you go eat it behind them. Calling it a sandwich at this point is a little ridiculous.
By far one of the funniest things I've read on HF in while

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Old
11-15-2010, 09:41 PM
  #71
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Giroux pacing for 96 points this year right now.

46 goals and 50 assists.

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Old
11-15-2010, 09:42 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Giroux pacing for 96 points this year right now.

46 goals and 50 assists.
I think 80ish is a more realistic number, but I'll take 90+.

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11-15-2010, 09:53 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Giroux pacing for 96 points this year right now.

46 goals and 50 assists.
I really don't expect him to hit that high, especially that goal tally.

30goals 40assists (+/- 10 points) is very reasonable.

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Old
11-15-2010, 10:22 PM
  #74
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Including playoff stats in some of your cases just doesn't make sense. Everyone knows players just coast in playoffs and aren't really trying. It's pretty much just like the pre-season. That's how Giroux is able to put up numbers.

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Old
11-15-2010, 10:35 PM
  #75
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All Flyers fans already know he is probably our best forward. It alternates between Giroux and Richards with Briere and Carter battling for 3rd and 4th most nights. Giroux is a better passer than Richards but is not a big hitter like Richards is.

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