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O'Byrne/Bournival trade revisited

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Old
11-16-2010, 11:37 AM
  #501
OpenIceHit
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O'byrne last night : almost 20 minutes (including PP and PK), 1 assist, +3, 1 fight and some good hits.

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11-16-2010, 11:38 AM
  #502
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O'byrne last night : almost 20 minutes (including PP and PK), 1 assist, +3, 1 fight and some good hits.
Hey good for him,

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11-16-2010, 11:43 AM
  #503
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Originally Posted by OpenIceHit View Post
O'byrne last night : almost 20 minutes (including PP and PK), 1 assist, +3, 1 fight and some good hits.
In a 6-3 win. Just so people know, but like i said i was a fan of OB.

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11-16-2010, 11:56 AM
  #504
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Yeah, okay. You are now the board expert on intelligence and childhood development.

O'B looks like he is doing well with Colorado. Big minutes, lots of hits and probably no fear of being benched for making a mistake. Maybe confidence and support from his coaching staff was a bigger issue than "intelligence".

As for AK, I love his seven goals, the hits he is making, his backchecking and his all around game. I suppose there are "smarter" players but I am not unhappy with Andrei.


How confident can you be when you see your team hiring Mara, Spacek, Gill, MAB, Picard, and promoting Subban, without giving you a REAL chance ?

Big 6'5 RH d-men are rare in this league.

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11-16-2010, 12:02 PM
  #505
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He did play well last night....i still like the trade for Habs

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11-16-2010, 12:04 PM
  #506
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O'Byrne isn't a slug. Do people forget he played almost 60 games for us a couple of years ago? He has his place in an NHL lineup, it just wasn't here. I don't know if people were expecting him to go to Colorado and be a -2000, but he's still a competent hockey player. Hopefully it'll work out better for him in Denver, glad to see him doing well so far.

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11-16-2010, 12:08 PM
  #507
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This has Patrick Roy 2.0 written all over it.

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11-16-2010, 12:10 PM
  #508
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This has Patrick Roy 2.0 written all over it.
OR.... Jose Theodore 2.0 ?

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11-16-2010, 12:11 PM
  #509
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OR.... Jose Theodore 2.0 ?
John Leclair 2.0?


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11-16-2010, 12:22 PM
  #510
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The deal is solid, as a baseball guy I like adding prospects, It's good asset management. I'm a fan of O'Byrne & will continue to be, but comparing the deal to John LeClair is way off. Comparing a bottom paring defense-man to a power forward is just wrong.

Didn't we also we did get Recchi in that deal with Philly who was our star player for years.

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11-16-2010, 12:27 PM
  #511
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The deal is solid, as a baseball guy I like adding prospects, It's good asset management. I'm a fan of O'Byrne & will continue to be, but comparing the deal to John LeClair is way off. Comparing a bottom paring defense-man to a power forward is just wrong.

Didn't we also we did get Recchi in that deal with Philly who was our star player for years.
Jesus, did you really think I was serious?


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11-16-2010, 12:31 PM
  #512
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This trade is a lot like the Chipchura & D'Agostini trades. Its not that these guys aren't NHLers, but they didn't fit the identity of the team. So the Habs waited, and dealt them when they could get a decent return. Its not that they will go to some other team and completely suck, the teams trading for them probably think they fit the team style better, so they play them.

Its not that hard to understand and its much better than just not playing them and losing them on waivers.

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11-16-2010, 12:42 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
This trade is a lot like the Chipchura & D'Agostini trades. Its not that these guys aren't NHLers, but they didn't fit the identity of the team. So the Habs waited, and dealt them when they could get a decent return. Its not that they will go to some other team and completely suck, the teams trading for them probably think they fit the team style better, so they play them.

Its not that hard to understand and its much better than just not playing them and losing them on waivers.
Hopefully Palushaj and Bournival can someday play with the Habs and contribute.

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11-16-2010, 12:47 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
This trade is a lot like the Chipchura & D'Agostini trades. Its not that these guys aren't NHLers, but they didn't fit the identity of the team. So the Habs waited, and dealt them when they could get a decent return. Its not that they will go to some other team and completely suck, the teams trading for them probably think they fit the team style better, so they play them.

Its not that hard to understand and its much better than just not playing them and losing them on waivers.
Sorry but identity isn't the answer. NIkolai Zherdev plays for Philly. So is Claude Giroux and Daniel Brière. in a country where toughness is CLEARLY their identity, those guys are still not Carcillo, Richards and Pronger there. You build a team and then you find an identity, not the contrary. They went and got Boyd 'cause he was suppose to be part of that identity and yet he's not playing...Yes, our "identity" is suppose to be about speed....and yet you look at the D and see Hamrlik, Gill and Spacek. And then the guy who should be the face of the identity, Gomez...is amongst the only negative aspect of this team so far. You can't have 20 of the same type of players. Yes, surely, if you want to play for Martin, you have to be aware of your defensive game but guess what....same thing with 95% of the rest of the coaches. Unless you are a superstar, you can't do whatever you want on the ice. We keep hearing how you have to be responsible at both ends and that's coming from every team.

Every player we've traded didn't have the confidence or weren't good enough, in their eyes, to play for us. Period. Yes, it does happen that a team sends a guy somewhere else and then this guy starts to play better elsewhere. Yes it does happen and for some that's just normal. But I will believe that the identity excuse and the "he would not have done it here" are just excuses to make us feel better. Don't tell me that the ones who are ecstatic to see our exes doing better elsewhere would not have prefered to see them doing well here instead?

I'm not saying it's the case, as of now, it works tremendously....but I just hope that for the sake of our "identity" we are not going to missed opportunities to add some other elements in our team game.

By the way, I love the trade. Big fan of Bournival. But I hate our record drafting, developing and giving confidence to our players and especially d-men.

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11-16-2010, 12:58 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
This trade is a lot like the Chipchura & D'Agostini trades. Its not that these guys aren't NHLers, but they didn't fit the identity of the team. So the Habs waited, and dealt them when they could get a decent return. Its not that they will go to some other team and completely suck, the teams trading for them probably think they fit the team style better, so they play them.

Its not that hard to understand and its much better than just not playing them and losing them on waivers.
Unlike Chipchura and D'agostini, I'm just afraid we'll be overpaying for a big stay at home d-man next summer and he'll be thriving in Colorado. I don't want to do like Toronto and pay 4.5 mil for a stay at home d-man.

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11-16-2010, 01:03 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Sorry but identity isn't the answer. NIkolai Zherdev plays for Philly. So is Claude Giroux and Daniel Brière. in a country where toughness is CLEARLY their identity, those guys are still not Carcillo, Richards and Pronger there. You build a team and then you find an identity, not the contrary. They went and got Boyd 'cause he was suppose to be part of that identity and yet he's not playing...Yes, our "identity" is suppose to be about speed....and yet you look at the D and see Hamrlik, Gill and Spacek. And then the guy who should be the face of the identity, Gomez...is amongst the only negative aspect of this team so far. You can't have 20 of the same type of players. Yes, surely, if you want to play for Martin, you have to be aware of your defensive game but guess what....same thing with 95% of the rest of the coaches. Unless you are a superstar, you can't do whatever you want on the ice. We keep hearing how you have to be responsible at both ends and that's coming from every team.

Every player we've traded didn't have the confidence or weren't good enough, in their eyes, to play for us. Period. Yes, it does happen that a team sends a guy somewhere else and then this guy starts to play better elsewhere. Yes it does happen and for some that's just normal. But I will believe that the identity excuse and the "he would not have done it here" are just excuses to make us feel better. Don't tell me that the ones who are ecstatic to see our exes doing better elsewhere would not have prefered to see them doing well here instead?

I'm not saying it's the case, as of now, it works tremendously....but I just hope that for the sake of our "identity" we are not going to missed opportunities to add some other elements in our team game.

By the way, I love the trade. Big fan of Bournival. But I hate our record drafting, developing and giving confidence to our players and especially d-men.
I think you are off base with Phillie.

Since Holmgren took over they are trying to build a team more like Detroit, with 3 scoring lines, plus puck moving d-men. They got to the finald because of the depth of their offense, heck their 3rd line basically beat us in the semi's. Over the last 2 years they have added guys like Carle and Mezaros on defense on top of Pronger, Timmonen and Coburn.

Yes they have a few guys that will drop them like Carcillo and Shelley(4th line), plus a guy like Hartnell who is a big banger, but he can still play in the top 6 and contribute offensively.

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11-16-2010, 01:34 PM
  #517
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Oh boy. O'Byrne had his chance with a team desperate for a Dman and he took it. Good for him. He wasn't going to have it with us. What's the problem ? Bournival is still a good prospect to have, very Martin like, to add to that, he somehow reminds me of Vermette.

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11-16-2010, 01:35 PM
  #518
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Unlike Chipchura and D'agostini, I'm just afraid we'll be overpaying for a big stay at home d-man next summer and he'll be thriving in Colorado. I don't want to do like Toronto and pay 4.5 mil for a stay at home d-man.
I was thinking the same thing today, actually. That said i have confidence in Picard to get the job done in O'byrne's stead. O'byrne is flourishing right now because he's playing with probably the most confident d-man in the league right now in John-Michael Liles, and he when he makes mistakes (like a gigantic one in front of the net last night) he doesn't get penalized for it. Colorado is just a better fit for O'byrne.

But back to our own defence... It seems like we've been stockpiling forwards the past few years to the point of ridiculousness. I think it's time to trade a top forward prospect for a D prospect--I'm really not happy with our depth at D. We have Tinordi who's at least 3 years (maybe more) away. Greg Pateryn and Mac Bennett who i'm not convinced either of them will play in the NHL. And then Carle, Weber, and Nash who l all like but none of them i see as having anything better than "maybe" top 4 potential. Meanwhile we have this glut of top 6 (or at least 2nd line) prospects. Eller, Pacioretty Maxwell, White, Leblanc, Kristo, Palushaj, Avtsin, Desharnais, Trotter, Bournival, Enqqvist... You get the idea. And the funny thing is, we have all these top 6 forwards tied up for the forseeable future, making it very difficult for our F prospects to break in, and on the flip side, practically no D signed long term. We have so few high upside D-men in our farm system, and i think that needs to be addressed, pronto. Because it's a just a question of numbers with the forward prospects i mentioned: they can't all play here. So you might as well trade them for D while they still have value.

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11-16-2010, 01:36 PM
  #519
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The guy is 26

chances are that he won't pan out to be anything more than a decent 5-6...at best

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11-16-2010, 02:03 PM
  #520
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Spacek Hamrlik and Gill will be long gone and we'll be making desperate offers to guys like Paul Mara and Jeff Finger when O'Byrne will be kicking some butt elsewhere. I think it's a shame that it ended up this way.

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11-16-2010, 02:20 PM
  #521
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Unlike Chipchura and D'agostini, I'm just afraid we'll be overpaying for a big stay at home d-man next summer and he'll be thriving in Colorado. I don't want to do like Toronto and pay 4.5 mil for a stay at home d-man.
Likelihood of seeing Gill or Hamrlik next year increasing?

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...chances are that he won't pan out to be anything more than a decent 5-6...at best
Although I don't disagree w/ that, I always thought he was a perfect fit for Markov (ala Komisarek). While it's great to have someone who can take slap shot playing w/ Markov, I'd rather have a big (somewhat nasty) stay-at-home D.

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11-16-2010, 02:53 PM
  #522
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Likelihood of seeing Gill or Hamrlik next year increasing?



Although I don't disagree w/ that, I always thought he was a perfect fit for Markov (ala Komisarek). While it's great to have someone who can take slap shot playing w/ Markov, I'd rather have a big (somewhat nasty) stay-at-home D.
Not sure about perfect fit but I was hoping he would become a better stay-at-home D than Komisarek and thus be a good partner for Markov. I was expecting it last season. I was expecting it this season. But to lose his job to Picard (nothing against him) meant that he was still not there. It was also obvious Martin considered him a risk when he chose to ignore him during the last playoffs, especially against the Flyers.

Avs think otherwise as they partnered him with Liles. Don't know if he will retain his job but I wish him luck.

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11-16-2010, 03:22 PM
  #523
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Not sure about perfect fit but I was hoping he would become a better stay-at-home D than Komisarek and thus be a good partner for Markov. I was expecting it last season. I was expecting it this season. But to lose his job to Picard (nothing against him) meant that he was still not there. It was also obvious Martin considered him a risk when he chose to ignore him during the last playoffs, especially against the Flyers.

Avs think otherwise as they partnered him with Liles. Don't know if he will retain his job but I wish him luck.
The writing was on the wall when MAB was playing a regular shift in the playoffs despite being horrible with and without the puck and JM had O'byrne in the press box. At the end of the day, unless you are a Markov or Subban, if your coach has little faith in you it's hard to make a niche for yourself. In order to thrive here JM would have had to send him back out after a mistake, not nail him to the bench.

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11-16-2010, 05:08 PM
  #524
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He did play well last night....i still like the trade for Habs
The trade was probably something the Habs had to do and I think we got a decent return for a player who was badly mis-managed. I hope both Bournival and O'Byrne do well.

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11-16-2010, 06:19 PM
  #525
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Spacek Hamrlik and Gill will be long gone and we'll be making desperate offers to guys like Paul Mara and Jeff Finger when O'Byrne will be kicking some butt elsewhere. I think it's a shame that it ended up this way.
Kicking some butt? See his fight last night? It reminded me of when the Chappelle Show had "Friday Night Sissy Fights".

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