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Proposal: Datsyuk for a winger

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Old
05-04-2005, 07:34 PM
  #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Icetime-wise they ranked Draper, Lang, Maltby, Datsyuk, Zetterberg. They were all within about a minute of icetime as well. It was fairly balanced, but I don't think you want Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Hull out there with Iginla running amok. We managed to mostly contain Iginla (1g 3a) it was their supporting role players that killed us. That and our offense not getting anything done.

Believe me I see Lewis as change #1 for the Wings, but sadly we can't trade him and Kenny has pretty much committed to at least one more year of pensive nailbiting from him.

That said a very close #2 would be getting us some big wingers than can score some goals for us.
trading for a big winger takes another big player in most instances. that's why it's been so tedious for us while trying to find a trading partner in general, let alone someone who'd give us that big winger. we'll see what happens with the draft when it comes around. til then i'm perfectly content to ride it out and see what comes up, IMO and many others here, it'll take a trade, lopsided in our favor for once, to get something of the magnitude you're saying, done. just like most other years, i don't see any team doing anything to help the wings out in a trade.

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05-04-2005, 07:56 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry1221
trading for a big winger takes another big player in most instances. that's why it's been so tedious for us while trying to find a trading partner in general, let alone someone who'd give us that big winger. we'll see what happens with the draft when it comes around. til then i'm perfectly content to ride it out and see what comes up, IMO and many others here, it'll take a trade, lopsided in our favor for once, to get something of the magnitude you're saying, done. just like most other years, i don't see any team doing anything to help the wings out in a trade.
Whenever this CBA gets ironed out it will be unlike any other player movement time ever. Odds are there will be a trade flurry, FA flurry, and a draft in a matter of weeks leading up to a training camp. There are so many holes in so many different rosters that this may be the perfect time to swap a solid roster player for something coming down the pipe. Also a perfect time for a guy like Holland to put his mark on this team and see what he's made out of.

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05-05-2005, 12:50 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Whenever this CBA gets ironed out it will be unlike any other player movement time ever. Odds are there will be a trade flurry, FA flurry, and a draft in a matter of weeks leading up to a training camp.
Then why doesn't detroit just sign some of those wingers and keep datsyuk? Or hell, even sign on of those big players you keep talking about? And then, detroit can draft a good prospect winger at the draft!

Problem solved.

Good night lady's and gents.

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05-05-2005, 12:50 PM
  #179
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I'd love to see them sign Teemu for $2M he'd be thrilled to play one season with a championship contender, even if it's placed in Michigan I'd think...

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05-05-2005, 01:37 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
Then why doesn't detroit just sign some of those wingers and keep datsyuk? Or hell, even sign on of those big players you keep talking about? And then, detroit can draft a good prospect winger at the draft!

Problem solved.

Good night lady's and gents.
Because we won't have the cap room to do so. And odds are not in our favor to be in position to draft a guy like Bobby Ryan (most highly touted prospect that fits what I'm asking for). EDIT - sign one of those players I'm talking about? You mean those blue-chippers I've been talking about? I don't think any of them are RFAs and if they were we'd lose a couple nice picks and kill our ability to draft guys like them for the future.

This didn't just come up on a lark. Some thought has gone into it.

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05-06-2005, 01:28 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Because we won't have the cap room to do so. And odds are not in our favor to be in position to draft a guy like Bobby Ryan (most highly touted prospect that fits what I'm asking for). EDIT - sign one of those players I'm talking about? You mean those blue-chippers I've been talking about? I don't think any of them are RFAs and if they were we'd lose a couple nice picks and kill our ability to draft guys like them for the future.

This didn't just come up on a lark. Some thought has gone into it.
Some thought, ok, i understand that. You sign those star wingers to play with datsyuk, Zetteberg. Then, you draft wingers. As far as the cap room goes, a ton of players will not have contracts when the CBA rolls around. Cujo, Yzerman, Shanahan(maybe, option and what-not). Detroit has plenty of options.

I'm betting that Detroit signs at least one winger.

If not, i'm completely happy leaving zetterberg at wing for another year. I'd rather have them do that than trade a young all-star.


Also, those blue-chippers you keep mentioning are always drafted by teams with bad regular season records. Detroit is not one of those teams, and wont be for another couple years(maybe). Plenty of excellent players are drafted at the end of the 1st round, and i'm pleased with the fact that detroit can find a player that will produce on the top 2 lines with that pick.

I guess its just different ways of looking at it, but i'd rather have datsyuk than a gamble.

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05-06-2005, 01:58 PM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
Some thought, ok, i understand that. You sign those star wingers to play with datsyuk, Zetteberg. Then, you draft wingers. As far as the cap room goes, a ton of players will not have contracts when the CBA rolls around. Cujo, Yzerman, Shanahan(maybe, option and what-not). Detroit has plenty of options.

I'm betting that Detroit signs at least one winger.

If not, i'm completely happy leaving zetterberg at wing for another year. I'd rather have them do that than trade a young all-star.


Also, those blue-chippers you keep mentioning are always drafted by teams with bad regular season records. Detroit is not one of those teams, and wont be for another couple years(maybe). Plenty of excellent players are drafted at the end of the 1st round, and i'm pleased with the fact that detroit can find a player that will produce on the top 2 lines with that pick.

I guess its just different ways of looking at it, but i'd rather have datsyuk than a gamble.
I don't think Detroit will be able to sign a winger. For the '05-'06 season we are on the hook (not counting Cujo's option year which won't activate, but counting Shanny's option which he will activate) for $32M. This is after the rollback (24%). If the rollback doesn't happen we are royally screwed and will join the lottery teams within 2 seasons due to losing the list that follows.

That is counting 15 players and not counting Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Hudler, Grigorenko, Dandenault, Franzen, Williams, a second goaltender, and possibly Stevie if he doesn't retire. We will have a damn hard time staying under $40M, nigh impossible.

There is no way we can sign a top 6 winger from the free agent market unless some sort of miracle happens.

Yes bad teams draft these guys and it's doubtful that Detroit joins them anytime soon, though not unfathomable. We can generally find players late but they are Datsyuks, Zetterbergs, Hudlers, and Grigorenkos. Plenty of skill and ability but lacking in size. If we can trade for a player that has the skill AND size I'd do it.

I'd rather gamble than continue with our playoff scoring problems due to lack of scoring size. Our '02 team was small but stacked. We won't be able to do that anymore.

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05-06-2005, 02:49 PM
  #183
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Ok, i looked again at the organizational chart from RWC and found i made a couple errors in my math.

the org. chart with cujo's option year figured in was $48,775,000.
taking out cujo's $8,000,000 contract it comes to....$40,775,000.
taking the 24% rollback into account it comes to.....$30,989,000.

this is all taken from the '05 - '06 season.
this leaves the wings 9 million to resign datsyuk, zetterberg, kronwall (our three main pieces for the future w/o contracts)

if we want to free up a little more space, then we could buyout mowers which takes another $375,000 off leaving us with ............$30,614,000.

Before resigning, we've got lines looking like

Holmstrom - Lang - Shanahan
Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Whitney
Maltby - Draper - McCarty
_____ - ______ - ______

Lidstrom - Hatcher
Fischer - Kronwall
Rivers - _______

*note i slotted in zetterberg, datsyuk, and kronwall because those are our three biggest concerns IMO to re-sign*

also w/o contract on the org chart are Dandenault, Woolley, Schneider, Williams, and if he doesn't retire, stevie.

worst case scenario puts woolley/dandenault with one of the kids from GR or just together on the 3rd pair

as for the 4th line forwards. we could only hope that grigs comes over, which i'd move whitney down and put grigs w/ zetts and datsyuk. then we've got williams and yzerman. possibility that franzen could come and play as well.

guestimating at what each player would cost

Datsyuk - $2.5 mil
Zetterberg - $1.25 mil
Kronwall - $1.15 mil
Williams - $500k
---------------------
$36,014,000 when added in with all other salaries. this is without woolley, dandenault or yzerman. IMO the only way we'll hit the $40 mil threshold is by defering salaries, which i don't think would come too hard for many, they've done it before. If it meant a better team, or keeping stevie for one more year, i don't think ilitch would mind paying whatever penalty for going over.

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Old
05-06-2005, 03:21 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry1221
Ok, i looked again at the organizational chart from RWC and found i made a couple errors in my math.

the org. chart with cujo's option year figured in was $48,775,000.
taking out cujo's $8,000,000 contract it comes to....$40,775,000.
taking the 24% rollback into account it comes to.....$30,989,000.

this is all taken from the '05 - '06 season.
this leaves the wings 9 million to resign datsyuk, zetterberg, kronwall (our three main pieces for the future w/o contracts)

if we want to free up a little more space, then we could buyout mowers which takes another $375,000 off leaving us with ............$30,614,000.

Before resigning, we've got lines looking like

Holmstrom - Lang - Shanahan
Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Whitney
Maltby - Draper - McCarty
_____ - ______ - ______

Lidstrom - Hatcher
Fischer - Kronwall
Rivers - _______

*note i slotted in zetterberg, datsyuk, and kronwall because those are our three biggest concerns IMO to re-sign*

also w/o contract on the org chart are Dandenault, Woolley, Schneider, Williams, and if he doesn't retire, stevie.

worst case scenario puts woolley/dandenault with one of the kids from GR or just together on the 3rd pair

as for the 4th line forwards. we could only hope that grigs comes over, which i'd move whitney down and put grigs w/ zetts and datsyuk. then we've got williams and yzerman. possibility that franzen could come and play as well.

guestimating at what each player would cost

Datsyuk - $2.5 mil
Zetterberg - $1.25 mil
Kronwall - $1.15 mil
Williams - $500k
---------------------
$36,014,000 when added in with all other salaries. this is without woolley, dandenault or yzerman. IMO the only way we'll hit the $40 mil threshold is by defering salaries, which i don't think would come too hard for many, they've done it before. If it meant a better team, or keeping stevie for one more year, i don't think ilitch would mind paying whatever penalty for going over.
The 'PA's proposal appendix had different figures for the team. 15 players (not counting Cujo's auto option, but counting Shanny's player option) at $42.26M pre and $32.11M post rollback.

Whitney - Lang - Shanny
***** - **** - ******
Maltby - Draper - McCarty
Holmstrom - **** - ****
spare - Mowers

Lidstrom - Fischer
Hatcher - ****
**** - Rivers
spares - Woolley, Helmer

Legace
*****
We need at least more 8 guys to fill out our NHL team.

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall are automatics. Combined I think they sign for $5M. That puts us to $37.11M.
We have to have a second goalie, MacDonald would probably be $.3-.5M, $37.5M.
Hudler, Grigorenko? At least another million, $38.5M.
Franzen, Williams, Dandenault, Stevie?

We are sitting damn tight. We'll see what happens...

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Old
05-06-2005, 06:30 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
The 'PA's proposal appendix had different figures for the team. 15 players (not counting Cujo's auto option, but counting Shanny's player option) at $42.26M pre and $32.11M post rollback.

Whitney - Lang - Shanny
***** - **** - ******
Maltby - Draper - McCarty
Holmstrom - **** - ****
spare - Mowers

Lidstrom - Fischer
Hatcher - ****
**** - Rivers
spares - Woolley, Helmer

Legace
*****
We need at least more 8 guys to fill out our NHL team.

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall are automatics. Combined I think they sign for $5M. That puts us to $37.11M.
We have to have a second goalie, MacDonald would probably be $.3-.5M, $37.5M.
Hudler, Grigorenko? At least another million, $38.5M.
Franzen, Williams, Dandenault, Stevie?

We are sitting damn tight. We'll see what happens...
where's the PA's appendix showing 15?.. from RWC (which i'll believe 10000000 times more than i believe anything from the PA i count 14 INCLUDING cujo's option. The PA's got something wrong. either way you're right, we'll be sitting tight, but holland will make it work, i've got no doubts about that

edit: ack, attachment looked like hell, here's the link to RWC's organizational chart.
http://www.allsports.com/nhl/redwing.../orgchart.html


Last edited by garry1221: 05-06-2005 at 06:32 PM. Reason: image didn't show well
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Old
05-06-2005, 06:50 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry1221
where's the PA's appendix showing 15?.. from RWC (which i'll believe 10000000 times more than i believe anything from the PA i count 14 INCLUDING cujo's option. The PA's got something wrong. either way you're right, we'll be sitting tight, but holland will make it work, i've got no doubts about that

edit: ack, attachment looked like hell, here's the link to RWC's organizational chart.
http://www.allsports.com/nhl/redwing.../orgchart.html
I guess they added an extra year to Woolley's $925,000 deal. Though we did sign Bryan Helmer for $425,000 just before the lockout for some odd reason.

So that would take a million off my math and add another player we need to sign. Adds more priority to signing Dandenault unless we take a chance on a GR kid, IMO.

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05-06-2005, 07:45 PM
  #187
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I'm a depressed hockey fan.

Why do we even bother with such pointless speculation? No collective bargaining agreement = no hockey. Who moves where or who gets signed? It all depends on whatever the agreement is. That is whenever it is. Until then, no reason to even guess what in the world will happen.

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05-06-2005, 08:01 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naihlflames
I'm a depressed hockey fan.

Why do we even bother with such pointless speculation? No collective bargaining agreement = no hockey. Who moves where or who gets signed? It all depends on whatever the agreement is. That is whenever it is. Until then, no reason to even guess what in the world will happen.
I'm a bored hockey fan.

A depressed hockey fan would probably cope better by not hanging around a hockey fansite where bored hockey fans discuss countless hypotheticals to pass the time.

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05-26-2005, 12:21 PM
  #189
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Well, there goes that idea.

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05-26-2005, 12:38 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Well, there goes that idea.

why do you say that

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05-26-2005, 12:42 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson
why do you say that
Radio reports out of Detroit indicate he has signed for a Russian team with no out clause. After a championship season and being the MVP over there he might have just decided he's happier there than in the NHL. That and he'll likely get a raise from his $1.5M or so that he was paid here over there as well as here so it would just be a matter of preference.

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05-26-2005, 02:26 PM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norrisnick
Radio reports out of Detroit indicate he has signed for a Russian team with no out clause. After a championship season and being the MVP over there he might have just decided he's happier there than in the NHL. That and he'll likely get a raise from his $1.5M or so that he was paid here over there as well as here so it would just be a matter of preference.


hopefully this isn't true, or maybe has an out clause. If not it means one of two things:

1. He's happier in Russia.
2. No NHL season.

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05-26-2005, 05:02 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel datsyuk
hopefully this isn't true, or maybe has an out clause. If not it means one of two things:

1. He's happier in Russia.
2. No NHL season.

I'm sure Pavel Datsyuk is a harbinger of the PA's intentions.

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