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Which player can "patch" the Habs' lack of physical toughness

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Old
11-17-2010, 09:15 AM
  #51
Pleky Roks
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The Habs shouldn't do one thing differently or dress any different players Monday against the Flyers, otherwise they are just playing into the Flyers hands.

Just go with the same lineup and play the same way as last night and if anything happens to a Habs player, then the Flyers will get in serious trouble for it. The Flyers are just mad that the Habs beat them and are trying to bully us. Ignore the Flyers....pay no attention to them. If someone gets injured Monday night, then we dress a bunch of goons for the next game, but not until then.

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11-17-2010, 09:19 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars Eller Superstar View Post
I'm happy we grabbed IAN SCHULTZ in the Halak trade , he will come handy in 2 years
This

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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
Habs need to call up Alex Henry as the 7th Dman and have him in play against teams like the Flyers. He is a big boy and can fight, plus he can play the 6th man role well.
but i agree with this in the short term.

but i like more scoring goals and wiining games, taking advantage of Flyers lack of dicipline.

If the habs start fighting with them, then they are falling to their level, and playing a flyers game. The habs win when they play fast offensive game. but it would be nice to be able to defend yourself..

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11-17-2010, 09:28 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Beach Boy View Post
Please, Richards Hartnell Carcillo Odonell Pronger Shelley are all tough sob's that would drop them against anybody.
What the heck are you smoking?

Richards acts tough against a guy like AK who's had maybe 2-3 fights in his life. When Subban got pissed he had no interest in fighting and was hiding behind the linesman. At his size he'd get killed if he fought a real "enforcer".

Pronger is the biggest ***** in the NHL, he acts tough with a stick in his hand but he would never fight anybody his size that can take care of themselves. He usually lets his wife fight the battles

Carcillo is a good middleweight, more of an agitator than a guy that intimidates anybody, he usually targets top players on the other team and tries to get them off their game, much like Lapierre.

Hartnell and O'donnell will fight, but once again, they will pick their spots, they'll fight guys like Hamrlik, not the Thorntons, Orrs or Laraques by any means.

The only guy that would "drop them against anybody" is Shelley, he usually takes a beating from the top 5-6 guys and can hold his own against guys like Thornton Barch and Carkners.

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11-17-2010, 09:31 AM
  #54
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You can add all the goons you want, the Flyers play that way against everybody. If you had a 4th line of Boogard, Laraque and Orr, they would still be a cocky, mouthy, chippy team, that's part of their identity. Short of sending somebody to sucker Richards, Carcillo, Pow or Hartnell, those guys won't fight heavyweights anyways.

The way NHL discipline is, it's bertter to play on the edge like Phillie does than have a bunch of enforcers because the initiual "hit" or act is usually less penalized/suspended than the retribution.

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11-17-2010, 10:10 AM
  #55
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We showed in the playoffs last year that size/physical play is not an issue with this team.

We lost to the Flyers because they were more talented than us.

Adding some extra sandpaper can't hurt, but really looking at the roster it would be nice to be able to add another top-6 winger so we can really balance out the lines nicely.

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Old
11-17-2010, 10:53 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Mackattack View Post
We showed in the playoffs last year that size/physical play is not an issue with this team.

We lost to the Flyers because they were more talented than us.

Adding some extra sandpaper can't hurt, but really looking at the roster it would be nice to be able to add another top-6 winger so we can really balance out the lines nicely.
I agree, I'd love a banger that can fight on the 4th line(Orr/Thornton type) but Phillie beat us last year for 2 main reasons...1-they had more depth, they had 3 scoring lines and their 3rd ended up scoring a ton of goals 2- we were without Markov and MAB was a turnover machine. Halak also wasn't as sharp as he was against Washington.

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11-17-2010, 11:05 AM
  #57
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Here's how I would do it.

Call Alex Henry up, we need a 7th defenseman with the team anyway in case of injury/rest situations, and play him against teams like Philly/Toronto/etc.

Henry has played almost 180 games in the NHL. He's played forward and defense in the league. Sure he doesn't bring offense to the team, but he's not a defensive liability. Even if someone gets hurt upfront, he steps in for a game, it's not a big issue.

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Old
11-17-2010, 11:23 AM
  #58
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Call up Bonneau. White and Henry for the next game in Philly

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Old
11-17-2010, 11:34 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Call up Bonneau. White and Henry for the next game in Philly
Yup, because having less skill in the lineup, trying to look tough is more important than winning the game

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Old
11-17-2010, 11:36 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by tiz View Post
Here's how I would do it.

Call Alex Henry up, we need a 7th defenseman with the team anyway in case of injury/rest situations, and play him against teams like Philly/Toronto/etc.

Henry has played almost 180 games in the NHL. He's played forward and defense in the league. Sure he doesn't bring offense to the team, but he's not a defensive liability. Even if someone gets hurt upfront, he steps in for a game, it's not a big issue.
Exactly what I came in this thread to say.

If the Habs can stay competitive/establish themselves as contenders the way the latest stretch has suggested is possible, then teams *WILL* challenge them. And attempts to exploit the Habs' lack of size / perceived lack of toughness will be made. One answer is to score more goals and turn the other cheek. It's a valid answer. I'm not sure the team has that much high end talent or high calibre depth to manage that every time out. A team like maybe Detroit has been able to. But even they have to answer the bell once in a while.

I don't think management needs to go very far out of its way to address the issue, and certainly you don't need to waste space on non-contributing elements like a Laraque. But at the same time, if a trade and an injury has taken you down to 6D anyway, and if you will be calling somebody up, and if the two "best" players available for a callup could benefit more from playing 20+ minutes and developing further in Hamilton than sitting in the pressbox (i.e. Carle and Weber)... then recalling Henry instead seems like a simple no-brainer that meets multiple objectives, painlessly.

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Old
11-17-2010, 11:37 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiz View Post
Here's how I would do it.

Call Alex Henry up, we need a 7th defenseman with the team anyway in case of injury/rest situations, and play him against teams like Philly/Toronto/etc.

Henry has played almost 180 games in the NHL. He's played forward and defense in the league. Sure he doesn't bring offense to the team, but he's not a defensive liability. Even if someone gets hurt upfront, he steps in for a game, it's not a big issue.
The only problem with that is that he might need to go through re-entry waivers and another team could get him for 250k and we'd be on the hook for 250k...correct me if I'm wrong?

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11-17-2010, 11:37 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Yup, because having less skill in the lineup, trying to look tough is more important than winning the game
Loosing Subban, or Gionta, or Plekanec, or Cammalerri to an injury is less important than winning a game ?

You have a very short memory. Which team kicked out the Habs out of the playoffs the last two seasons ? And for which reasons ?

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Old
11-17-2010, 11:43 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Exactly what I came in this thread to say.

If the Habs can stay competitive/establish themselves as contenders the way the latest stretch has suggested is possible, then teams *WILL* challenge them. And attempts to exploit the Habs' lack of size / perceived lack of toughness will be made. One answer is to score more goals and turn the other cheek. It's a valid answer. I'm not sure the team has that much high end talent or high calibre depth to manage that every time out. A team like maybe Detroit has been able to. But even they have to answer the bell once in a while.

I don't think management needs to go very far out of its way to address the issue, and certainly you don't need to waste space on non-contributing elements like a Laraque. But at the same time, if a trade and an injury has taken you down to 6D anyway, and if you will be calling somebody up, and if the two "best" players available for a callup could benefit more from playing 20+ minutes and developing further in Hamilton than sitting in the pressbox (i.e. Carle and Weber)... then recalling Henry instead seems like a simple no-brainer that meets multiple objectives, painlessly.
I would prefer to see him play at forward than on defense where he would struggle mightily against fast teams like Phillie. He could play defense on an emergency basis or in one sided games.

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11-17-2010, 11:43 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Yup, because having less skill in the lineup, trying to look tough is more important than winning the game
Yes because putting White instead of Pyatt is CLEARLY removing a skilled player for a slow physical one

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11-17-2010, 11:44 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The only problem with that is that he might need to go through re-entry waivers and another team could get him for 250k and we'd be on the hook for 250k...correct me if I'm wrong?
Henry's AHL salary is indeed above the threshold, so he would need to clear recall waivers, I believe. Nobody took him on the way down, and he has not really established himself as a regular NHL player, however. I don't know if there's an emergency exemption which could be applied given the injury to Markov and the team being undermanned, although I think they still have 21 players and might need another 1 or 2 booboos for that to work.

I think it's worth the risk. Unfortunate for the Bulldogs if Henry did get snagged, but Henry undoubtedly wants back in the NHL, and we have the need. So you go ahead and make the call, and if somebody takes him, then its in the best interests of the player, and that is more important in the big picture than the minor inconvenience it represents to our organization.

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11-17-2010, 11:47 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I would prefer to see him play at forward than on defense where he would struggle mightily against fast teams like Phillie. He could play defense on an emergency basis or in one sided games.
Well, to me he then becomes considered as a liability, and a la Laraque, I would not use him at all.

As a 6th/7th dman with Jay Leach-esque utilization, I dare to hope that Henry still wouldn't hurt us. But as a forward, he really is just a pure enforcer and a waste of roster space IMHO.

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Old
11-17-2010, 11:48 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by CanadienErrant View Post
Loosing Subban, or Gionta, or Plekanec, or Cammalerri to an injury is less important than winning a game ?

You have a very short memory. Which team kicked out the Habs out of the playoffs the last two seasons ? And for which reasons ?
You can dress 5 goons it won't stop Hartnell, Richards, Pow and co from playing their chippy style, they play like that against everybody....and it will weaken the team skillwise.

Phillie beat us with speed and skill last year, they exposed our defense because MAB was playing a regular shift and some of our other guys were overworked because Markov was out the Pittsburgh series and that one.

Any suggestion that Phillie beat us with intimidation is an urban legend.

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11-17-2010, 11:48 AM
  #68
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Some people here live in clouds. You can't always respond with the power play. Some dirty hits don't get called and you have to retaliate physically to stand up to players. Look at that game whem Komisarek got mauled in Boston 2 years ago, I'm no fan of Komi but that was disgusting and embarrasing and it probably pushed him to not resign here. You have to stand up and respond for self respect, even if you end up losing the game it's better for the room and the players in the long run to stick up for each other. You can't let goons and busted players like Odonnell go after talent like Subban and not respond because one day you will lose him...that was embarassing no one even attempted to go after Odonell last night. I'd like to see someone tackle Dougthy or Keith to the ground like that..and see if you wait for a power play.

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11-17-2010, 11:53 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Yes because putting White instead of Pyatt is CLEARLY removing a skilled player for a slow physical one
Pyatt helps us have one of the best PK in the NHL. Plus, White is still developing in the AHL, I wouldn't want to bring him in to play 10 min a game. The way Boyd is being used, I'd prefer a true enforcer, a guy who can play 10-12 min and not hurt you and handle the big boys(Belak?).

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11-17-2010, 11:59 AM
  #70
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Carcillo will be available at the end of the season... 1m?

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11-17-2010, 12:11 PM
  #71
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Scratch Pyatt and Picard and recall Henry and White.

White is more suited than Pyatt to play physical teams like the Flyers and can play on the PK too even if he may not be as effective. Ditto for Henry - Picard.

Then again maybe it would be wise to not try to play the Flyers game and just keep the status quo since it worked pretty well last night. On the other hand we should expect the Flyers to go all out on Monday , especially in Philly. Adding more toughness may not be a bad thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post

I think it's worth the risk. Unfortunate for the Bulldogs if Henry did get snagged, but Henry undoubtedly wants back in the NHL, and we have the need. So you go ahead and make the call, and if somebody takes him, then its in the best interests of the player, and that is more important in the big picture than the minor inconvenience it represents to our organization.
Just imagine : We recall Henry , the Flyers claim him and put him in the lineup vs us on Monday.

What a dbag move that would be and that would certainly piss me off


Last edited by Bronn: 11-17-2010 at 12:16 PM.
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Old
11-17-2010, 12:26 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Ground And Pound View Post
Scratch Pyatt and Picard and recall Henry and White.

White is more suited than Pyatt to play physical teams like the Flyers and can play on the PK too even if he may not be as effective. Ditto for Henry - Picard.
Don't mind recalling White but he'll not get to play over Pyatt IMO. JM likes him and to be fair he's an important part of the PK. But if Halpern can't go and seeing how Boyd has fallen out of the picture, White's energy and grit would be welcomed, and not just against the Flyers.

Henry's a good idea too, simply because he could rotate with Picard depending on the team played and what's needed, although not JM's style to put people in the lineup solely for their pugilistic abilities.

And I maintain that trying to play the Flyers' game by fighting toughness with toughness is a slippery slope. We don't have the ressources to play that game no matter how you slice it. We play the way NJ and Detroit have the past few years. We're not about aggression, like it or not, that's not how this team was built.

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Old
11-17-2010, 12:37 PM
  #73
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Yes because putting White instead of Pyatt is CLEARLY removing a skilled player for a slow physical one
If White is called up, it's likely to replace Halpern.

Both Pyatt and Halpern lead our team in the PK minutes. You don't replace both, heck you don't replace either unless you have too due to injuries. Our PK is #1 in the NHL, we're top of our division, only 1 pt behind 2nd overall with one game in hand, you don't make changes for the fun of it.

Philly can play physical, look what it got them, a 3-0 loss.

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Old
11-17-2010, 12:39 PM
  #74
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Every time i hear somebody that we don't need toughness because we will answer with our powerplay, i LMAO!

Yes, the Habs have an history of skilled and fast player, but they have also an history of players with toughness to protect those skilled players. We don't need to forget that!

Call-up Ryan White and Henry for monday. Bench Pyatt and Picard. Pyatt's only good on defence and he's not doing anything else.

White would have pound Powe's face yesterday.

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Old
11-17-2010, 12:40 PM
  #75
tiz
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Well, to me he then becomes considered as a liability, and a la Laraque, I would not use him at all.

As a 6th/7th dman with Jay Leach-esque utilization, I dare to hope that Henry still wouldn't hurt us. But as a forward, he really is just a pure enforcer and a waste of roster space IMHO.
I don't think he's a liability. He brings 0 offense, but he's not a liability defensively.

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